Assessing Waterless Wash products?

[PiPUK]

Hi guys,

January is development time and we are working on the waterless/rinseless wash type products. We have an existing option, but with more enquiries in this direction, we are delving into it more deeply.

The question that has arisen is how do detailers assess the performance of these products? We have about a dozen different formulations which have passed stability testing but the truth is that we are struggling to differentiate between them. Spray them on, wipe them off and the dry shiny - more or less this is true for all. On a single or small number of washes, we don't observe appreciable damage. But, I read on here lots of comments with regards to waterless wash products which seem to draw very clear conclusions. So can I ask to any waterless wash afficianados, how are you actually assessing the products? What makes a products great? What would make you conclude that one is rubbish?

Thanks for reading

[SonOfOC]

I have used almost every waterless and rinseless product available in the U.S. You may have already deduced that Ultima as a waterless and ONR as a rinseless are arguably the best in category.

To answer your question—both types of products must have above average cleaning abilities, lubricity, and leave the surface clean and shiny. There have been so many similar products introduced in the last 3 years that it is truly difficult to empirically rank one product above another—instead I am using my five human sense as a Litmus test in gauging if a product is good or great.

[Dogfather]

I've only used two different products so I don't qualify as an aficionado. My preference of one over the other is based on lubricity. In my mind at least, lubricity is the feature that most relates to safety.

[swanicyouth]

I'm not a pro detailer - so take my opinion with a grain of salt. But, to me, for waterless - you want to offer a product that is highly dilutable, like Pinnacle or Ultima. Anyone "pro" who uses a lot of this stuff will not be interested in something with like a 1:4 dilution - when they can get one with a 1:44 dilution that is almost the industry standard. Slickness and non-streaky ness are important as well. You also want to make sure it works well in colder temps.

Rubbish: sticky and smeary.

[runrun411]

I'm not a pro detailer - so take my opinion with a grain of salt. But, to me, for waterless - you want to offer a product that is highly dilutable, like Pinnacle or Ultima. Anyone "pro" who uses a lot of this stuff will not be interested in something with like a 1:4 dilution - when they can get one with a 1:44 dilution that is almost the industry standard. Slickness and non-streaky ness are important as well. You also want to make sure it works well in colder temps.

Rubbish: sticky and smeary.

:iagree:+1

[Audios S6]

I have to agree with swanic: high dilution ratio, very wide tempurature range, high lubricity and streak free. If it smells good, that doesn't hurt either.

Some other things to consider would be:

1. Compatibility with rinseless washes since many of us will spray a waterless wash on the car before doing a rinseless wash.

2. Any protective qualities it may add would a be a bonus and add to the products range of uses.

3. Being functional on glass - I personally find waterless washes to be only the first step necessary for glass and I will frequently avoid using waterless wash on my glass - instead opting for a traditional glass cleaner or fast glass towel

4. If said product would work below freezing and if I could add it to rinseless washes to prevent them from freezing on a panel when it's below 0*C, that would be awesome. I would also like if my waterless wash could make a frozen pizza - I realize chemistry hasn't advanced that far yet.

There is one completely subjective criteria that is a deal breaker for me. If I'm using a rinseless wash and I can hear & feel the grittiness on the panel, I will stop the wash, I will then proceed to presoak the panel with waterless wash before continuing with the rinseless wash. Everytime I've done this, Ultima WW+ has eliminated the sound and feel of grittiness. If a waterless wash was unable to do that, it would start collecting dust on my shelf.

[Kyle_Elantra]

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/product-reviews/74742-review-pinnacle-liquid-crystal-waterless-auto-wash-carnauba.html

The concerns posted in this topic are along the lines of what would cause me to pass on a waterless product. Granted, I like this particular product, but the complaints of not "lifting" the dirt off the surface (his emblems), not clinging to the panels before running, and overall lubricity and cleaning power weakness.

The carnauba is a great addition, same with ONR- wash and wax, it makes maintenance washes, especially for the pros, more time and budget friendly.

[octane]

living in Canada, I would have to say that a good product should clean well, and dry off well, with no streaks even when it's near freezing!

[FUNX650]

I take it's a given that we won't be able to purchase any of your waterless wash products?

Bob

[TroyScherer]

I have used a few of the Waterless Wash products. Having


One of the biggest things for me is that it is formulated to be a Waterless Wash primarily. Most of the products that are made to be multiple types of wash method fall short IMO. The same goes for a rinse-less wash.
Lubricicity is very important as well. It is what gives the "feel" of being a safe cleaning solution.
Good cleaning ability is good to have. Although I tend to go for a rinse-less or conventional wash if I have more than just a light dust and minor film.
Depending on what type of product you are trying to develop / use depends on if I want or prefer gloss enhancing / wax in my products. As a quick top up product gloss enhancement is nice to have, but I would prefer a superior cleaning & Lubricicity over gloss enhancement.
A Waterless Wash product should be easy to wipe off / buff away any haze.
If it can be made to work in a wide range of temperature & humidity conditions that would be nice as well.
Ideally the product would be cost effective. I don't really care about what the Dilution ratio is. With that said I am sure that higher dilution products are more desirable.

In the end I am not sure I could break it down into an easy check list of what makes a good product. It is a combination of all of the aspects that makes a product great.

[PiPUK]

Thanks for all the input.

At this stage, water-less is what we are looking at, no dilution. Simple reasoning is that most real world users are not detailers so this gives a wider market (there is also evidence that detailers may be inclined to willing to pay for a pre-diluted product, believe it or not).

Lubricity (slickness) appears to be the main comment, thankfully this is straight forward. The protection element is also noted a few times and is similarly straight forward (in fact it is dramatically more difficult to do without protection). Cleaning power is a bit more complex - with wiping the surface, all the products basically achieved the same level of clean. It is only if you use them as a pre-spray that you see the difference. Since this is not the way they will be used, I must admit to being unsure whether to worry about this. Easy to use and buff down (ie. not sticky and smeary!) are again fairly straight forward.

Think I am still going to struggle differentiating between these test products but I'll have a bit more of a focus on the points discussed and see if any one jumps out.

Thanks

ps. Sorry Bob, it is central to our business that we supply only to wholesale/resale, our core customers would be rather unhappy were we to start selling in competition with them! So until one of the brands we supply makes it to your shores or someone from your shores wants to sell under their brand, I am just a guy spouting a lot of science!