Griots Machine Polish and Sealant and Still Have Swirls

[Mnlc90]

My good friend picked the final products I thought I needed to remove the swirls from the hard top of my 1990 Miata (I'll be doing the rest of the car when it warms up). Here's what I had:

Clay Bar
Griots Machine Polish 1 and 3
Griots pink pad
Griots Paint Sealant
Harbor Feights DA
HF polishing pad
HF finishing pad

Here's what I did after clay bar:

1. Machine Polish 1 with pink pad, DA set on 5
2. Machine Polish 3 with polishing pad DA set on 5
3. Paint Sealant with finishing pad DA set on 5

And what happened?

1. Still see swirls, although not as bad.
2. Ended up with too much blue paint on the pads and MF towels and I don't want to touch the hard top again. I don't want to ruin the paint.

Before I attempt the rest of the car, any opinions on why I was unable to remove all the swirls?

What did I do wrong?

Thanks.

[TundraPower]

Griots make some good products...polishes aren't one of them.

[dcjredline]

lol @ tundra! So true

I also think maybe you didnt use a strong enough pad or didnt do enough section passes/moved the machine too fast maybe.

Polish/pad/technique are all equally as important as the other.

[Paul Mitchell]

Griot's sells an orange foam polishing pad, a black foam finish pad and a red foam wax pad. If it was a pink pad it wasn't from Griot's so that might be part of your problem as it may not have had any real ability to remove swirls. Sorry, I don't know anything about the HF pads.

[dougsrt]

Griots#1 is aggrieve you should have followed up with#2 polish then #3.did you use an Ipa wipe down before you went to #3 polish?you might of still had #1 polish residue when you went to 3. I would use a ipa
wipe down and repolish with #3 again hope this helps

[Pureshine]

Griots make some good products...polishes aren't one of them.

:iagree:

[HateSwirls]

I agree about their polishes but love their paint sealant,last for months.
Heck UC outperforms Griot's Polishes.

If I my suggest a good swirl remover for you I'd say buy a small bottle of WG Über Compound, I call it "Swirl Be Gone":dblthumb2:
If you like it then you can buy a large bottle on your next order.





Griots make some good products...polishes aren't one of them.

[allenk4]

"If I my suggest a good swirl remover for you I'd say buy a small bottle of WG Über Compound, I call it "Swirl Be Gone""

+1 on Wolfgang Uber Compound

I used it this weekend on a black 2010 Mercedes E550.

Paired with a FLEX 3401 and Lake Country Orange CCS Pad.

I found that it was very similar to Menzerna FG400

- Seems to cut the same as FG400

- Both are low dusting, unless you use too much product

- Seems to have a longer working time than FG400

- Seems to be a bit more difficult to buff off than FG400

I prefer Menzerna FG400 due to it being easier to buff off. I don't need the longer working time...the FLEX seems to break the DAT polishes down very effectively in four to five passes for me.

[Mnlc90]

Thank you all for the advice. I feel I'm on the right track, just continue to learn from you guys!!!

[Mike Phillips]

Thank you all for the advice. I feel I'm on the right track, just continue to learn from you guys!!!


Lots of good advice in this thread so far....


Another forum member in a similar situation, read my replies in this thread,


http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/75532-cobwebs.html


Note the first link I shared with him was how to do a Test Spot.


How To Do a Test Spot (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/50162-how-do-test-spot.html)


I've been teaching people how to do a Test Spot since at least 1994 on the Internet. That's a long time, 20 years actually and there's a reason I do this.

A: It will save you time.

B: It will keep you from making a mistake over an entire car.

C: It just makes common sense.

D: It will help you to remove the least amount of your car's already THIN paint.

E: If you look around on other forums, blogs and videos you'll see lots of people now also share this simple concept. (Vindication)



The next article is one I wrote years ago after writing probably the first how-to article on how to use a dual action polishers and the reason I wrote it was because most people make the same 8 common mistakes.

This articles walks you through the 8 most common mistakes and the remedies.




DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/37769-da-polisher-trouble-shooting-guide.html)

When you're first starting out machine polishing and learning to use a DA Polisher it's common to have questions about your results and your results are directly tied to your technique.

Here's a list of the most common problems,


1. Trying to work too large of an area at one time.

2. Moving the polisher too fast over the surface.

3. Using too low of speed setting for removing swirls.

4. Using too little downward pressure on the head of the polisher.

5. Using too much downward pressure on the head of the polisher so the pad quits rotating.

6. Not holding the polisher in a way to keep the pad flat while working your compound or polish.

7. Using too much product or using too little product.

8. Not cleaning the pad often enough.
Here's a list of the solutions in matching order,

1. Trying to work too large of an area at one time.
Shrink the size of your work area down. You can't tackle to large of an area at one time. The average size work area should be around 20" by 20". Most generic recommendations say to work an area 2' by 2' but for the correction step, that's too large. You have to do some experimenting, (called a Test Spot), to find out how easy or how hard the defects are coming out of your car's paint system and then adjust your work area to the results of your Test Spot. The harder the paint the smaller the area you want to work.


2. Moving the polisher too fast over the surface.
For removing defects out of the paint you want to use what we call a Slow Arm Speed. It's easy and actually natural for most people new to machine polishing to move the polisher quickly over the paint but that's the wrong technique. One reason I think people move the polisher too quickly over the paint is because they hear the sound of the motor spinning fast and this has psychological effect which causes them to match their arm movement to the perceived fast speed of the polisher's motor.

Another reason people move the polisher too quickly over the paint is because they think like this,

"If I move the polisher quickly, I'll get done faster"

But it doesn't work that way. Anytime you're trying to remove swirls, scratches, water spots or oxidation using a DA Polisher you need to move the polisher s-l-o-w-l-y over the paint.



3. Using too low of speed setting for removing swirls.
When first starting out many people are scared of burning or swirling their paint, so they take the safe route of running the polisher at too low of a speed setting but this won't work. The action of the polisher is already g-e-n-t-l-e, you need the speed and specifically the pad oscillating and rotating over the paint as well as the combination of time, (slow arm speed), together with the abrasives, the pad aggressiveness, and the downward pressure to remove small particles of paint which is how your remove below surface defects like swirls or scratches.

Removing below surface defects is a leveling process where you need the abrasives to take little bites out of the paint and to get the abrasives to take these little bites with a tool that uses a Free Floating Spindle Bearing Assembly (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/23995-free-floating-spindle-assembly-story-behind-story.html) you need all of the above factors working for you including a high speed setting.



4. Using too little downward pressure on the head of the polisher.
For the same reason as stated in #3, people are scared, or perhaps a better word is apprehensive, to apply too much downward pressure to the polisher and the result of too little pressure is no paint is removed thus no swirls are removed.



5. Using too much downward pressure on the head of the polisher so the pad quits rotating.
If you push too hard you will slow down the rotating movement of the pad and the abrasives won't be effectively worked against the paint. You need to apply firm pressure to engage the abrasives against the paint but no so much that the pad is barely rotating. This is where it's a good idea to use a permanent black marker to make a mark on the back of your backing plate so your eyes can easily see if the pad is rotating or not and this will help you to adjust your downward pressure accordingly.

Correct technique means finding a balance of applying enough downward pressure to remove defects but not too much downward pressure as to stop the rotating movement of the pad.

This balance is affected by a lot of factors like the lubricity of the product you're using, some compounds and polishes provide more lubrication than others and this makes it easier to maintain pad rotation under pressure.

Another factor that can affect pad rotation are raised body lines, edges and curved surfaces as anytime you have uneven pressure on just a portion of the face of the pad it can slow or stop pad rotation. This is where experience comes into play and experience comes from time spent behind the polisher.



6. Not holding the polisher in a way to keep the pad flat while working your compound or polish.
Applying pressure in such a way as to put too much pressure to one edge of the pad will cause it to stop rotating and thus decrease abrading ability.



7. Using too much product or using too little product.
Too much product hyper-lubricates the surface and the result is that abrasives won't effectively bite into the paint but instead will tend to skim over the surface. Overusing product will also accelerate pad saturation as well increase the potential for slinging splatter onto adjacent panels.

Too little product will means too little lubrication and this can interfere with pad rotation.

Again there needs to be a balance between too much product and too little product and finding this balance comes from reading articles like this one, watching videos an most important, going out into the garage and putting in time behind the polisher and as you're buffing with specific product and pad combinations, pay attention to pad rotation.



8. Not cleaning the pad often enough.
Most people simply don't clean their pad often enough to maximize the effectiveness of their DA Polisher. Anytime you're abrading the paint you have two things building up on the face of your buffing pad,

Removed paint


Spent product
As these to things build up on the face of the pad they become gummy and this has a negative affect on pad rotating plus makes wiping the leftover residue on the paint more difficult. To maintain good pad rotation you want to clean your pad often and always wipe-off any leftover product residue off the paint after working a section. Never add fresh product to your pad and work a section that still has leftover product residue on it.


Pad Cleaning Articles

Why it's important to clean your pads often... (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tricks-tips-techniques/28755-why-s-important-clean-your-pads-often.html)

How to clean your foam pad on the fly (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/20135-how-clean-your-foam-pad-fly.html)




Even more good information in this other thread...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/75532-cobwebs.html


:)

[Mnlc90]

That's great! Thank you so much!!