Mayday Mayday! Oxidation/clear coat failure comes back!

[spinz]

Hi Geeks,

I detailed a black Honda not long ago, i managed to fix the oxidation/clear coat failure (Sorry i'm not sure which one is the most accurate to describe this defect.) http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-n-shine/74957-2008-black-honda-civic-oxidation-removal.html


To my astonishment, after a week when i looked at the car i found the oxidation/clear coat failure came back on the same panels... :doh:

I remember the pads did turn black when i buffed the paint, but the color on the pad was only noticeable on the first 5-6 section passes, and it became less noticeable after that. So i thought it was the dirt removed but not the paint removed.


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/medium/20131223_112534.jpg


It wasn't look like this when i detailed the car, but now i can see it is slowly going back to its former condition...
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/medium/20140103_103747.jpg



Is there a solution to this problem?
Or i can only educate the owner it's time to go for a repaint?

[hernandez.art13]

I'll subscribe and see what everyone else has to say,

Good luck

[GenesisCoupe]

what about laying some Meguire's #7 on the paint and let it soak in a bit? Then polish it out with your polish/pad or choice.

There was a member who used Meguire's #7 on some very dull/oxidised paint and had great luck with it. Mike P. wrote an article on it too.

[Evan.J]

The only way to fix clear coat failure is to get a repaint.

You can cover it up with a wax or slanat and it will blend the color and make it less noticable but you cant fix it with out a repaint.

[2old2change]

You can dress up small amounts of cc failure but it's only temporary at best. Time for a repaint.

[Bill1234]

Are you sure this car is not single stage? Might want to try using meguiars ultimate compound here if there is clear to take off

[parttimer]

That looks like failure to me too. Once it fails its done. Sorry.

[allenk4]

what about laying some Meguire's #7 on the paint and let it soak in a bit? Then polish it out with your polish/pad or choice.

There was a member who used Meguire's #7 on some very dull/oxidised (sp) paint and had great luck with it. Mike P. wrote an article on it too.

A black 2008 Honda should certainly not be single stage paint if it is an OEM finish.

If if it is base/clear and you have black on you pads....that would indicate that you have already gone thru the clear coat and the base coat is being exfoliated onto the pad.

[spinz]

what about laying some Meguire's #7 on the paint and let it soak in a bit? Then polish it out with your polish/pad or choice.

There was a member who used Meguire's #7 on some very dull/oxidised paint and had great luck with it. Mike P. wrote an article on it too.
I don't have Meguiar's #7 in my arsenal, i thought glaze is only used to hide swirls/buffer trails?
I'm thinking switching to a thicker LSP, which is Opticoat 2.0, not sure if the thickness of Opticoat will help to seal the paint better?



You can dress up small amounts of cc failure but it's only temporary at best. Time for a repaint.


The only way to fix clear coat failure is to get a repaint.

You can cover it up with a wax or slanat and it will blend the color and make it less noticable but you cant fix it with out a repaint.
What is the alternative or better way to advise the owner to get a repaint other than just saying "Sorry, i couldn't help much here and it is time for a repaint."?



A black 2008 Honda should certainly not be single stage paint if it is an OEM finish.

If if it is base/clear and you have black on you pads....that would indicate that you have already gone thru the clear coat and the base coat is being exfoliated onto the pad.
According to the owner, those panels have been repainted at body shop before.
I had black on my pads on the first few section passes, it became less noticeable after that.

[hernandez.art13]

They do look more repainted then CC failure. I thought that but then you mentioned there was paint transfer to your pad. So that thew me off.

I would have guessed that maybe it had been repainted and maybe just never sanded and buffed or never sanded and buffed correctly, but like I said above the paint transfer to your pad threw me off.

Since you say it has been repainted before, maybe a new repaint done properly would be necessary. But who knows, just my 0.02 cents

[Evan.J]

What is the alternative or better way to advise the owner to get a repaint other than just saying "Sorry, i couldn't help much here and it is time for a repaint."?


If this were me and I was doing the car I would have noticed the change in paint and it would have raised some issues for me.

I would have then got out my paint thickness gauge and checked the area and all others to get a general baseline reading of what thickness the area should be. If it was a repaint you should be able to see a noticeable thicker measurements with a repaint than a factory paint job. Now if you find that it is less then its clear coat failure or burn through.

Next would be to look at the area and see if I can see an edge to where the clear coat starts and stops and most to the time its very noticeable.

Following this I would do a test for any color transfer. If I get some transfer and I can determine based on everything else I have done thats is clear coat failure then thats when I talk to the customer.

I am all about educating them and explain to them what the area is, why it happened, what can be down to fix it. I would suggest a repaint with a body shop as my primary idea and most recommended. If they don't want that and still want the car done I would tape off the area so you know where it is so you don't do any more damage. Then take some polish and do the area by hand then seal it with a sealant. I would then explain that while the paint looks good now over time the polish and sealant will break down casing the failure to be exposed once again and suggest the repaint.

I find that telling and showing customers gets the point across much more than just saying things. Remember that they don't know as much and a good detailer does so bring it down to a level they will understand and show them what you see.

[spinz]

If this were me and I was doing the car I would have noticed the change in paint and it would have raised some issues for me.

I would have then got out my paint thickness gauge and checked the area and all others to get a general baseline reading of what thickness the area should be. If it was a repaint you should be able to see a noticeable thicker measurements with a repaint than a factory paint job. Now if you find that it is less then its clear coat failure or burn through.

Next would be to look at the area and see if I can see an edge to where the clear coat starts and stops and most to the time its very noticeable.

Following this I would do a test for any color transfer. If I get some transfer and I can determine based on everything else I have done thats is clear coat failure then thats when I talk to the customer.

I am all about educating them and explain to them what the area is, why it happened, what can be down to fix it. I would suggest a repaint with a body shop as my primary idea and most recommended. If they don't want that and still want the car done I would tape off the area so you know where it is so you don't do any more damage. Then take some polish and do the area by hand then seal it with a sealant. I would then explain that while the paint looks good now over time the polish and sealant will break down casing the failure to be exposed once again and suggest the repaint.

I find that telling and showing customers gets the point across much more than just saying things. Remember that they don't know as much and a good detailer does so bring it down to a level they will understand and show them what you see.


Thanks Evan for the input, learned a lot. :)

So the owner sent the car back to me again.

This picture shows the paint was on the way going back to its earlier condition.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/medium/20140119_134810.jpg

Closer look, very bad.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/medium/20140119_143918.jpg?528


On the left side, no clarity at all.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/medium/20140119_134856.jpg?310


I corrected the paint again, but i switched to another LSP, Opti-Coat 2.0.
Because i think Opti-Coat will form a thicker layer of protection to the paint (just my assumption).

Here is the photo after applying the LSP.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/medium/20140119_174027.jpg?394


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/medium/20140119_174035.jpg?850




The last time i corrected the paint, it took 2 days to go back to its original condition.

This is the second time i corrected the paint, and here's how it looks after a week.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/medium/20140122_182056.jpg?220


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/medium/20140122_182007.jpg?43

It seems like the LSP is doing a good job and no any sign of oxidation/clear coat failure on the same panel.

I will continue to observe the paint and update again after a week. :xyxthumbs:

[jakonrad]

Subscribed. I'm interested to see what happens with the Opti-Coat. It's an interesting test because we're still not quite sure what this is, but it could end up being an inexpensive way to stave off clear coat failure for considerably longer.

[StuDLei]

Subscribed. I'm interested to see what happens with the Opti-Coat. It's an interesting test because we're still not quite sure what this is, but it could end up being an inexpensive way to stave off clear coat failure for considerably longer.

Interesting to me too. Subscribed.

[Pampered Paint]

did you do a paint thickness test on the paint before you started work?
it would be interesting to know what it was. it may give you a clue to what us going on.