Rotaries & Menzerna vs. Optimum

[D]

Well I did two cars this week with pretty bad swirls and very hard CC. It made me realize that I really need to get a rotary and some new polish. Ive never used a rotary before, so Im new to all of this. I got the cheap one from Harbor Freight, I also ordered some Optimum Polish and Compound, no Hyper Compound.

I would like an experienced person who has used both Optimum and Menzerna to compare and contrast the two. Specifically Optimum polish and compound, compared to Menzerna SIP and 106ff.

I would also like to be schooled on rotary use (keep in mind Im using Optimum). I think Ive got the basics down, keep it moving, dont hit plastic and door handles, dont go over 1300rpm, be careful with plastic bumpers, keep the back of the pad tilted up. What else is there?

Ive got a spare hood, so my plan is to practice on that for at least a week so I can get use to it. Then I might give it a shot on my dads Audi since it has a hard CC. Otherwise Ill try it on some panels on my car which need repaint anyways. Point is, I want a couple weeks worth of practice before I even think of touching a customers car with it.

[D]

Looking for some videos on using rotaries. I came across this one, zymol detailer - offyourmarks - 911 turbo (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=98837705686147732&q=rotary+polisher&total=9&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2) Now it looks to me like he definitely stops in places for a few seconds, and he polishes part of the hood where he didnt originally spread any polish onto. Is this good practice? Doesnt seem like a video I should be learning from.

Heres another one I found. YouTube - Zymol detailer on Lotus super 7 #2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm80kdbYyAA&mode=related&search=) It looks like this guy is moving a lot faster and I can see the bottom of the pad being tilted up.

[Nica]

Funny you should ask that about Optimum vs Menzerna. I just completed a truck, I'll be posting shortly, and I used Optimum Hyper Compound and Meguirs cutting wool pad and I found that Optimum Hyper Compound did not have as good of abit as compared to Menzerna Power Gloss Compound. I'm not sure if it was the clear coat it was just a Dodge and I know the clear coat on Dodge is not tough at all...well a really good point on Optimum is that it does not dust as much as Menzerna Power Gloss Compound.

Well again that's just my observation so far, I'll have to give Optimum Hyper Compound a try again and see but my numero uno polish right now is Menzerna and then Optimum.

Now for the rotary, I think orngez has the same rotary as the Harbor Freight Tools and he said it worked good for him. The thing about rotaries, well I've only copared the Makita to the Metabo since I have both now and I don't pretend to know all about rotaries either because I'm learning too but here is what I've notice. You want a rotary that will make it easy for you to work on the roof of any vehicle. Ideal you want the lightest and the one that feels confortable in your hands oh and lets not forget the one that has a nice motor too. You know which one I like so I don't need to say it, but like I said those are just some things that I've noticed about the rotary..oh yea to be honest the rotary is not that bad considering you have already got your feet wet you will do just fine.

Edit>As far as rotary video I've purchased the Buffing With Confidence video and I did a review on it too, well worth if if you ask me.

Well I don't know how use full my $0.02 will be to you but just thought I'd share it anyway.

[D]

Thanks Nica. Is that CD mainly geared around rotaries?

[Nica]

Well the Buffing With Confidence video showes you all the machines rotary/PC/Cyclo but yes it's more geared on the rotary and wool pads. To be honest if it wouldn't have been for this video I wouldn't have tried the wool pads so soon.

oh and wool pads :righton:

[pirex]

I most agree with Nica here, I tryed optimum hyper compund on a audi, but it dident do to mutch, so I tryed the menzerna 106ff, and it took everything out! Both with metabom orange 5.5 pad and on speed 1600 rpm.

[Ivan Rajic]

D&D, in the 2nd video you posted, I belive the guy goes faster because it's a plastic part.

You should definitely not do what he is doing in the first video, as he is very skilled with the rotary and knows what he's doing. Using it by one hand is very hard to get used to, but much easier on your back once you can control it well. I would suggest use the same speed as he did in the 2nd video on plastic panels, and slow down a bit, but not as much as he does in the first video, on metal panels... you'll easily get the hang of it after a few hours of practicing, but I suggest you practice on vertical scrap panels as well, not only a horizontally placed hood, as that's very very easy compared to doors, etc..

Lastly, I absolutely hated the rotary you bought... I started with a vector rotary, then bought the harbor freight one to try it out since it was so cheap at $30 at the time... it was WAYY too light for me, compared to the vector at least, and I ended up selling it after about 30 mins of use. I do still have my vector, if you're interested just PM me.

Good luck bud.

[TOGWT]

Rotary Polisher:
I have resisted writing a guide for the use of a high-speed polisher in the past because they can remove and/or burn paint and create swirl and buffer marks if used improperly. A high-speed polisher actually removes the swirl by removing the layer of paint down to the lowest point of the swirl. With a little patience, practice and common sense, an enthusiast can master the skill needed to create a swirl-free, mirror bright finish. If you're serious about paint correction and / or becoming a professional detailer a HS Rotary is the tool to master. Obtain some scrap panels and Practice...Practice...Practice...

Staying within the speed range of 600 – 1,200 rpm, providing you are careful not to hold the pad in one place for too long, and paying attention when you come to the `edge' of a panel or a body contour it will not cause any damage or paint burn. Staying within this speed range it's pretty much idiot-proof (I can use it, what does that tell you)

A high-speed polishing machine (Porter-Cable 7428, a Makita, DeWalt, Metabo, Hitachi, etc, which are all fine high-speed rotary machines) that have a direct-drive with selectable speed control that maintains a constant speed under varying loads conditions. Used mainly by body repair / paint shops or very experienced detailers to rectify more serious paint film surface imperfections using a Velcro baking plate, foam pads of varying coarseness and an abrasive compound or polish to remove swirl marks, scratches and paint defects, using their high (revolution) speed and friction heat to enable compounds to abrade the paint film surface that require more power /speed than a random orbital buffer can provide.
(See also Section 13 HS Rotary Polisher)

Common mistakes -
1. Diminishing abrasives- you need to allow the abrasives to break down (become progressively smaller) to create a great finish or you may impart surface marring, holograms or worse. The point at which a polish is fully broken down comes with experience but a good yard stick is when the polish has become clear and can easily be wiped off.
2. Ensure a ‘wet’ polishing film is always present between your pad and the surface. Swirls are usually caused d by using an aggressive polish without breaking down the diminishing abrasives properly, or you may have used too much polish or it may have dried. To remove spritz the pad with a quick detailer or distilled water (do not add further polish) and re-polish using the polish left on the pad.
3. ‘Buffer hop’ is when the rotary jumps across the paints surface usually due to insufficient polish/lubrication and as the foam pad grips the paint it jumps. Try spreading the polish more evenly across the pad, add more polish, distilled water or quick detailer (QD)
4. High RPM i.e. >1700 will cause high surface temperatures (should be limited to 1000F / 300 C<) 1150F
450 C will damage clear coat to the point were it requires repainting.
5. The HS Rotary requires no more pressure than that required to ‘hold’ it on the paint surface

Using a Sliding Scale 600-900-1200 rpm- commence by setting the speed to 600 rpm, then adjust to 900rpm culminating at 1200rpm then descend to 900rpm and finish at 600rpm. 1200 rpm is where most of the paint surface defects will be removed. There probably will be some polishing defects (holograms, etc) by descending the sliding scale (1200-900-600rpm) you will remove these and any other minor defects
(See also Compounding / Polishing)


Recommended polishes- Menzerna Super Intensive Polish and / or 106FF (both are formulated for Ceramiclear (hard clear coats) but do very well on all types of paint surfaces)) as these are dependant upon the cutting ability of the foam pad used and it possible to go from removing surface imperfections to a LSP ready paint surface

[D]

Thanks guys. Im going to add some 106FF to my order!

[D]

How does Optimum compare to the XMT line when using a 7424?

[pirex]

I find xmt 4 stronger than the OC, but I like optimum better. Maybe because I have used it more. Xmt is a great line!

[gator1]

The xmt line is great ,but with the rotary it brakes down in a hurry so a just and a Little more product . The optimum line will give you alto more work time but both will do a great job if applied properly.

[D]

Alright guys, I got my Optimum and Menzerna today :righton:. Going to use it on a red 05 Z4. Havent clayed it yet, but doesnt seem to have very sever swirls/ scratches. Going to be using the PC with the Edge blue or green pad. Then topping with Souveran Paste. What do you guys think I should try first, OP Polish, or Menzerna 106FF?

[alban61]

^^ Try Menz 106FF first and admire the shine that it gives the paint!

[Nica]

mmmm....I'd say try Optimum first....:D....so you can be blown away from the awesome power off 106FF :D