Possible use of Power Inverters for occasional Mobile Detailing power-source?

[Ohio Detailing]

Well, the heading says it all, "Possible use of Power Inverters for occasional Mobile Detailing power-source?"

Basically what I'm wondering is since these 12v Power Inverters can just plug into your vehicle, and many of them (including the one I am linking to here, below) can generate an output in excess of 1-2,000 watts, would this be something that could possible fill a temporary and occasional gap for mobile detailing where a client want's their vehicle done in a remote location, perhaps a parking lot, or even in their driveway while they're at work etc - where the possibility arises that no power source would be available?

I'm curious if one of these units, which can produce over 2,000 watts, would be able to power a pressure washer, a wet/dry vac, a buffer, or any other tool that is used while detailing... all off of our work vehicle battery? Sure, it's not ideal (sure beats spending a grand on a generator that is 10x as big/heavy/and requires gas), but this monstrous unit is smaller than a shoebox, under $200, and is the single BEST rated 2,000 watt inverter on all of Amazon: Link HERE (http://www.amazon.com/Xantrex-PROWatt-Inverter-Model-806-1206/dp/B002O5P8BA/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1388623238&sr=1-1&keywords=power+inverter)

--> I might have to beef up my work vehicle's battery, perhaps even add a beefy 2nd totally dedicated battery, and bulk up my alternator too (?)... but ALL of that seems pretty easy, RELATIVELY inexpensive, and a LOT easier than dropping the mega-money on a heavy space-hogging deafening generator... ALTHOUGH, I don't think I will "have" to, according to the manufacturer's blurb on Amazon:


Amazon.com "With True Sine-Wave output, the PROwatt SW Series can provide power for all types of electrical loads including, variable speed power tools, advanced electrical appliances, microwaves and much more. The PROwatt SW provides household AC power anywhere."

Please share your thoughts guys if this is possible... thanks! :)

[octane]

the link is to the 600 watts version, the 2000watts is a lot more expensive, and from the reviews they say that you need 250 amps to feed it, so you would need a very big alternator, two more batteries, a lot of big gauge wire... you will be close to the price of a Honda 2000watt generator after it's all said and done!

[Mike Phillips]

I have a picture of me buffing out a black C4 Corvette using my old trusty, dusty Makita Rotary Buffer using a Power Inverter plugged into the C4 Corvette.

To my surprise it worked very well.

This is at the Plastic Fantastic Corvette Show on the water in San Diego circa 2004...

http://www.showcargarage.com/gallery/files/1/MikeBuffingatPF.jpg

http://www.showcargarage.com/gallery/files/1/PFBeforeandAfterCorvetteSunshot.jpg


While I demoed on the above Corvette, I had buffed this car out completely and it took First Place in it's class at this show. Also belonged to the President of the San Diego Corvette club at that time.



Wheels, Tires, Sidepipes, Windshield and Interior
Again, here's a 1963 Corvette Stingray I buffed out for the 2004 Plastic Fantastic Corvette Show in San Diego in which instead of putting the top up and then taping off the top I used a soft flannel bed sheet to cover both the windshield, seats and interior.

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/21963CorvetteafterDACP1.jpg

Afterwards on display in full sun, this car also took first place in it's class at the Plastic Fantastic Show the following weekend.

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2Sandys1963Corvetteatevent.jpg









:)

[VP Mark]

I've got a 1,000 watt inverter that I use sometimes to power my PC, a small shop vac, or lighting. It isn't powerful enough to run my Rupes 15 or large shop vac though. It's great to have for doing headlights or spot compounding small scratches.

[Romans5.8]

You'll want one that is a PURE SINE WAVE inverter for using power tools of any sort. Sometimes people mistake their inverters for not being powerful enough when truthfully, they are just the 'wrong power inverter' for the job.

I would also avoid plugging one into the cig lighter, or certain wire melting, fuse blowing, or worse is bound to happen. That 12v port in the car is not rated for the kind of draw your power inverter pulls. The inverter doesn't make power, it just changes it's characteristics. However much your tool pulls, is how much your inverter will suck out of that battery.

On that note, I'd leave the vehicle powering the inverter running. I've often thought that an excellent solution for a mobile deailer would be to mount a heavy duty pure sine wave inverter in their vehicle, attached to the battery directly. Just leave the car/truck/van running, and work to your hearts content. I haven't done the research, but I imagine your more efficient car engine will actually use less fuel than a loud, messy, carbeurated engine on a generator to create the same amount of power.

The problem with running it straight off the battery is this, car batteries are not like the batteries in your cellphone. They are not storage batteries, they are 'starter batteries'. They are meant to provide a short, strong burst of power to start the engine, that's it. When starter batteries voltage drops, it begins to corrode internally. Consistently draining the battery (even if not to the point of being 'dead') will significantly reduce it's life. Use a seperate (or multiple seperate) DEEP CYCLE, or 12v golf cart batteries, would work however, as those are still lead-acid batteries but their chemistry is designed to store power, though it provides less 'juice' so it will require a much larger/heavier battery than an equivalent 'starter battery' to get a car starter. So in other words, Start Battery = not safe to use as a power source, but provides a strong source of electricity to start and engine. Storage battery (deep cycle, golf cart, etc.) = provides less current, but can safely be used for long periods without recharging, and in fact, will last longer 'on a charge' anyway.

Depending on the inverter situation and your vehicle, you MAY need to upgrade the alternator to do this seriously.

If it were ME, this is what I would do;

I would first check the output of my alternator and make sure that it has enough EXTRA juice (aside from what the car is using) to power my tools, or at least close to it (anything extra the battery will take care of, but as mentioned before, you don't want to rely on that).

Then, I would mount a power inverter with more than enough power to handle the load, is pure sine wave, and has features like low-voltage shutoff. Then, if I really wanted to go extreme, I'd wire a 12v deep cycle battery in parallel to my engines starter battery and before the power inverter. It'll provide an extra 'buffer' in case the load is greater than what the alternator can keep up with, and won't discharge the starter battery as quickly.

You can power your entire house with a power inverter (that's how solar systems work, most of them produce low volt electricity and have power inverters to create high voltage electricity, even solar power plants use inverters!). It's all about how it's configured! Just make sure to use the correct gauge wiring! Personally, I think it's a far better solution than a generator, ESPECIALLY for folks working out of vans.

If it's true to specs, the one in your link seems great. Just make sure to figure in the cost of heavy duty wiring to the battery (whether alligator clips for a 'temporary' hookup, or ring clips to mount it), and some sort of inline fuse or fuse block for it as well.

Do some reading too, as some of these "600, 1200, 2000 watt" inverters are limited. Not just surge power (that's something difference, and is just momentary power to start a tool). But some of them can't maintain 2kW for more than a couple of minutes without overheating, they can only maintain 600 watts continually. So find out how much your tools draw CONTINUALLY (A GREAT way to do that is a 'kill-a-watt' or similar device you plug into the wall, then plug your tool into. It'll tell you how much you pull at start, and how much you pull when running your tool. Run it over a panel too, like you're actually using it, and find out how much it's draw is). It's very possible this inverter can handle 2kW infinitely, but given it's size and lack of cooling fins, it's also very possible that it can only handle that kind of load for a few minutes.

[Ohio Detailing]

I have a picture of me buffing out a black C4 Corvette using my old trusty, dusty Makita Rotary Buffer using a Power Inverter plugged into the C4 Corvette.

To my surprise it worked very well.


Looks GREAT Mike! Thanks for sharing :)

This idea just came to me about a month ago - and really got me thinking. Because, if this could power a buffer and a wet/dry vac... or even just the wet/dry vac or a Dyson (which is what we use 85% of the time now while detailing, because even the expensive wet/dry vacs that we tried, with the best specs, had terrible suction compared to a normal household Dyson!), we'd be in business. With a waterless wash, and just enough water to maybe splash some wheels, and a power-source like an inverter... we could literally detail anywhere, WITHOUT spending chunks of money on generators or a tow-behind water-tower, haha.

The only question that remains is... how do I know the current-draw and needs of each tool, and will any of this damage my battery after a prolonged period of use, or several uses like this on a weekly basis? I'm more concerned about the right power-supply though, because I can get a normal 1,000watt inverter from Wal-Mart for $60, rather than getting the $200 2,000watt inverter if I don't "need" that much power. Interesting...

[Ohio Detailing]

the link is to the 600 watts version, the 2000watts is a lot more expensive, and from the reviews they say that you need 250 amps to feed it, so you would need a very big alternator, two more batteries, a lot of big gauge wire... you will be close to the price of a Honda 2000watt generator after it's all said and done!

Interesting, if that's true, maybe it would be better to buy the generator, which would use less gas I assume than simply leaving my vehicle running of course.

I was going based off of the product's description on Amazon, which, now that I actually read it, says this unit can "surge" up to 3,000 watts actually:


Amazon.com

Product Features:

600/1000/2000 watts maximum, 1200/2000/3000 watt surge capability

The PROwatt SW Series feature True Sine-Wave AC output with 600, 1000 and 2000 watts respectively. With high surge capability, the PROwatt SW Series provides the necessary current to startup demanding electrical loads.

So, maybe that means it can provide 600 watts continuously without breaking a sweat, but 2,000 watts and even 3,000 watts come in bursts or "surges" and would not be something you'd always want to draw from this inverter? They kind of make it confusing.

WHY DON'T THEY JUST SAY:
"This product provides XXX watts, which is also equivalent to XXX amps, directly from your vehicle cigarette lighter!" THEN, I could simply check our Dyson and Makita or FLEX buffer, and see how many amps it draws - UGH

[kevincwelch]

They sell some excellent power inverters and converters down at Tosche Station.

[Ohio Detailing]

I've got a 1,000 watt inverter that I use sometimes to power my PC, a small shop vac, or lighting. It isn't powerful enough to run my Rupes 15 or large shop vac though. It's great to have for doing headlights or spot compounding small scratches.

According to Dyson.com... their DC25, uses an 11amp motor

I'm not sure if amps can be translated directly into current draw based on wattage... but if you're 1,000 inverter can't power a larger wet/dry vac, I can't imagine it would power this. So, a 2,000watt inverter would be around $300, and I might have to beef up my battery and alternator (maybe) - seems like this good idea is good until you get into vacuums, which is primarily by far what I'd need it for while mobile :(

[Ohio Detailing]

You'll want one that is a PURE SINE WAVE inverter for using power tools of any sort.

The problem with running it straight off the battery is this, car batteries are not like the batteries in your cellphone. They are not storage batteries, they are 'starter batteries'. Storage battery (deep cycle, golf cart, etc.) = provides less current, but can safely be used for long periods without recharging, and in fact, will last longer 'on a charge' anyway.

Depending on the inverter situation and your vehicle, you MAY need to upgrade the alternator to do this seriously.

If it were ME, this is what I would do;

I would first check the output of my alternator and make sure that it has enough EXTRA juice (aside from what the car is using) to power my tools, or at least close to it (anything extra the battery will take care of, but as mentioned before, you don't want to rely on that).

Then, I would mount a power inverter with more than enough power to handle the load, is pure sine wave, and has features like low-voltage shutoff. Then, if I really wanted to go extreme, I'd wire a 12v deep cycle battery in parallel to my engines starter battery and before the power inverter. It'll provide an extra 'buffer' in case the load is greater than what the alternator can keep up with, and won't discharge the starter battery as quickly.

Absolutely awesome post, thank you! :)

You really seem to know a lot about this, and your reasoning and advice seems really solid. Actually, I know some guys who are amazing with cars, and would know how to mount this kind of system I'm sure. With the installation hardware, the inverter itself, the wiring, and the new 12v deep-cycle battery... I bet this entire project would be well under $500 from start to finish, I could even upgrade the inverted I originally linked to on Amazon in my original post, and stay under $500. This is something really worth considering, especially if the highest load would be 11amps, because I wouldn't be paint-correcting WHILE vacuuming obviously. Very cool. Since the inverter is under the hood along with the additional battery, it would also take up ZERO space in the back of my small-SUV, which is great.

One last thing I want to bring up is, I have an actual normal outlet in my SUV, 2-prong though... would I be able to plug into this, or, would I have to mount the inverter ITSELF somewhere within the SUV to make it accessible to plugging tools DIRECTLY into, for best current? Don't want to leave my hood popped for a couple hours while I detail, so maybe I'd mount it somewhere inside?

[Ohio Detailing]

UPDATE:

Just found out exact specs!

Dyson's 11amp motor uses 120 volts, so the calculation was possible from there: 1,320 watts

I'm attaching a screen-shot of the exact calculations in this post... so, I guess all I need is an inverter than can produce a MINIMUM of 1,320 watts, and to be safe, 1,500+ watts so that it is not straining the vehicle's battery, or better yet, an alternator with some muscle AND an inverter than can provide CONTINUOUS 1,500 watts, so the vehicle's battery is NEVER strained (?)

PS: Found one (maybe)! This is a 1,500 watt CONTINUOUS "Pure Sine Wave" Inverter that produces 220-240 volts output which is enough for the Dyson, and about everything else I can imagine a detailer would use. HERE'S THE -- LINK (http://www.amazon.com/Power-Inverter-Input-Output-Frequency/dp/B00A35NSZQ/ref=sr_1_2?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1388688516&sr=1-2&keywords=power+inverter)--

[Romans5.8]

Absolutely awesome post, thank you! :)

You really seem to know a lot about this, and your reasoning and advice seems really solid. Actually, I know some guys who are amazing with cars, and would know how to mount this kind of system I'm sure. With the installation hardware, the inverter itself, the wiring, and the new 12v deep-cycle battery... I bet this entire project would be well under $500 from start to finish, I could even upgrade the inverted I originally linked to on Amazon in my original post, and stay under $500. This is something really worth considering, especially if the highest load would be 11amps, because I wouldn't be paint-correcting WHILE vacuuming obviously. Very cool. Since the inverter is under the hood along with the additional battery, it would also take up ZERO space in the back of my small-SUV, which is great.

One last thing I want to bring up is, I have an actual normal outlet in my SUV, 2-prong though... would I be able to plug into this, or, would I have to mount the inverter ITSELF somewhere within the SUV to make it accessible to plugging tools DIRECTLY into, for best current? Don't want to leave my hood popped for a couple hours while I detail, so maybe I'd mount it somewhere inside?

A couple of things;

1) As far as upgrading the alternator (in reference to previous comments) that's not likely a concern and is only a concern for major paint correction work where you'd be using the DA polisher for long periods of time. Using a bit of the battery to run the vacuum or a DA for shorter periods (which won't be much since the alternator will still provide the brunt of the load) won't harm anything. Providing a sort burst of power then being quickly recharged is exactly what your battery is designed to do anyway. It's long, continuous drains that you want to avoid.

2) The built-in inverter's 'plug' is not likely going to be able to handle that much load. You could, in theory, wire it in, but you'd lose your ground AND the wiring is not likely to be able to handle it.

3) Personally, I wouldn't mount it under the hood. Heat kills electronics. There's already the issue of whether a small inverter will be able to shed the heat from powering a tool like a DA polisher for long periods of time. Adding engine heat to the equation is a recipe for early failure or the overheat shutoff kicking in mid-job. I would treat an inverter installation like a subwoofer amplifier installation if it were me. I'd use similar wires and tools, run the wires through the firewall and under the carpet or running boards, and then into the back of the vehicle where I'd mount the inverter. If your SUV has rear glass that opens, then you could easily plug your tools in through the glass and be okay (just through a microfiber towel down over the liftgate to protect the paint from the cord!). I've actually seen guys do inverter setups on cargo vans who installed outside GFI outlets (like you'd find outside your home) on the side of the van. But that's probably not an option on your SUV!

I think it's a great solution! Cheaper than a generator, quieter, more environmentally friendly, and far less maintenance. But, if you do this often, don't forget to figure in the extra idle time when considering your cars oil change intervals!

[Romans5.8]

UPDATE:

Just found out exact specs!

Dyson's 11amp motor uses 120 volts, so the calculation was possible from there: 1,320 watts

I'm attaching a screen-shot of the exact calculations in this post... so, I guess all I need is an inverter than can produce a MINIMUM of 1,320 watts, and to be safe, 1,500+ watts so that it is not straining the vehicle's battery, or better yet, an alternator with some muscle AND an inverter than can provide CONTINUOUS 1,500 watts, so the vehicle's battery is NEVER strained (?)

You'll need one that can provide a CONTINUOUS 1500 watts without overheating, AND provide a 'surge' of more, as that vacuum will actually pull a lot more than 1500 watts when it's initially turned on.

You can perform the same calculations to determine the stock output of your alternator. Now I don't know what kind of SUV you have, but you said it was a small SUV. One could guess it has a 140 to 160 amp alternator. 140 amps at 14 volts is just shy of 2000 watts.

What I do NOT know, is

A) How many watts your inverter will pull to make 120 AC volts @ 1500 watts. But no inverter is 100% efficient.

B) How much your SUV draws just idling to power computers, spark plugs, fuel injection, etc. etc. Goes without saying, leave the headlights, stereo, etc. off.

HOWEVER, personally, I would be more than comfortable running a 1500 watt vacuum on a 140 amp alternator. It will, in theory, use some of the batteries 'juice' (After all, the alternator won't necessarily be putting out it's full power at your car engines idle. Most alternators run peak power at 3400-4000 RPM's. Depending on the pulley size, I don't know what engine RPM translates into your alternators peak power RPM). However, it'll only be using a little bit of the batteries juice. ESPECIALLY if you wire in a deep cycle battery.

If it was enough of a concern to you, or you found yourself hitting the low voltage cutoff or ending up with a discharged battery, then you should be able to get a 240 amp or so alternator as a direct replacement. And that should provide more than enough power for you. But that will add a bit more cost, and put you in the ballpark of a generator. You still have the quiet/clean/low maintenance advantages of an inverter, but if you need to upgrade the alternator, you've bumped into the cost of a generator, so keep that in mind.

I would also do a complete detail on my own personal car from the inverter before going to a client. Just to make sure everything works the way I anticipate it to.

I am in no way an expert! It's just something I've fiddled with from time to time. Helped build a relatives shed with an inverter. No power available until AFTER the shed was built and the power company inspected it. We could've used a generator, but said relative had a big heavy duty sine wave inverter. It piqued my interest so I did some research. We idled his F-150 and ran plug-in drills, angle grinders, table saws, circular saws, you name it off of this thing. (But, unlike detailing, those are frequent short bursts, instead of long sustained heavy draws like a vacuum or a DA)

[octane]

first off you would need the 2000 watts model that is 380$(Amazon.com: Xantrex PROWatt 2000 Inverter, Model# 806-1220: Automotive (http://www.amazon.com/Xantrex-PROWatt-Inverter-Model-806-1220/dp/B002LGEMOQ/ref=pd_cp_e_1))

2000 watts on a 12v system is 166amps (that is at a 100% efficiency, which you will not even be close to on a 400$ inverter) then you have to take into account that your alternator will probably give out less than half it's rated amps at idle, so maybe 60 amps... and then the running car will need some amps to run, you will also get some power loss with the wiring...

lots of unknowns... but to me it doesn't look like you can make this work for under 1000$

[Ohio Detailing]

Thanks for the help guys! I'm positive this is doable, when/if the time comes, it would be an awesome, stealthy, and ingenious way to do things... and would also allow for other uses like camping trips etc, for a great power supply. Kudos for the awesome help and ideas!! :)