First Time Detailer w/Unique Project

[telram]

Hi all,

As the title suggest, I am a long time car enthusiast and have always had a interest in detailing. Being the DIY type, I have decided to detail my car myself and am looking for some validation and opinions on my action plan. I will do my best to provide as much detail as needed to obtain advice from members who are much more seasoned than me.

The project car:

1993 - Japanese Spec - Toyota Supra TT (Big single turbo conversion).

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t300/telram/MySupra_zps3df994cf.jpg


Car is always garage kept with very minimal exposure to the elements.
The car came from factory with Black (Code 202) SS paint.
At some point the car was repainted with 2 stage paint (same color it seems), but orange peel is visible on some panels (fenders, wing and doors exhibiting the most, hood and roof exhibit the least).
The door jams, engine bay, mirrors, door handles, nooks in the front bumper and edges of A-pillars were not resprayed or resprayed thoroughly (SS paint remains).
Scratches/swirls are present across the car (Hood and roof exhibiting severe cases with moderate levels on remaining panels).
There is some planned body work that will require paint (good test areas?)
I do not have access to a PTG, so don't have that information. If required I could pick up a magnetic gauge to compare panels.


Based on the above it should be clear that the current paint condition is very inconsistent across the car. As a result, I realize each panel may require different correction steps.

Since some body work is planned (painting is required), I have decided to perform the detailing before the paint for two reasons. Namely, access to test areas and recourse in case I damage any panels.

In addition, it is very likely that the car was resprayed with a 2 stage right above the original SS paint. As a result, if I see any color on my pads I will know that I have exhausted the clear coat. I think this is a positive and will provide an indicator f where I am at.


Goal and Personal Objectives:


Car is not a DD and not a show car. It is a personal project that I want to be proud to display. I am not looking for a 99% correction, however 90%+ would be nice.
Other than the what I know from online reading and research, I have never polished paint. I feel I understand the principles well and I have polished metal before with great success!
I am not in a rush and view this as a labour of love. The car is in for winter storage and I have a climate controlled environment with decent lighting to work in.
I am interested in applying a nano-coating following the paint correction to reduce the amount of effort to maintain the car over the long term.


Action Plan:

First off, I will say that although I believe products on the market vary in quality, I believe that techniques trumps product choice when dealing with premium grade products.

With that said, feel free to let me know if you believe I do not have the right tools or products to tackle this job. I recently ordered a PC 7424XP w/5" Backing Plate.

The car has been washed, dewaxed and clayed. Depending on the condition of the panel I plan to use the least aggressive combination of the following steps to obtain the desired results:



Denim Pad w/CG Paint Correction 3 No. 700: Step 1 for panels exhibiting the worst OP
Orange Pad w/CG Paint Correction 3 No. 700: Step 1 for panels exhibiting the worst swirls with little to no OP
Orange Pad w/ CG Paint Correction 2 No. 721: Step 1 for panels exhibiting only moderate swirls and no OP
White Pad w/CG Paint Correction 1 No. 778: Step 2 for all panels


I plan to run the PC at a speed of 4 to 5 in a low humidity/temperature environment.

Following the above, I will determine what the LSP steps should be (sealant, wax, nano-coating).

Your comments and suggestions are welcome and I appreciate any constructive feedback seeing as I have never done this before.

Thanks,
Telram

[telram]

To provide some additional support, I have also taken some closeup pictures of the paint with an in person description of the
state of each panel.

Front Fender:
Most severe OP with lots of swirls.
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t300/telram/IMG_20131230_160628_zps4aca3a36.jpg

Hood:
Most severe swirls with little to no OP.
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t300/telram/IMG_20131230_160751_zpsb03a4b1f.jpg

Roof:
Severe swirls with OP on raised parts continuing down A-pillar are rear quarter panels. No OP in center of roof.
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t300/telram/IMG_20131230_160814_zpseee8f9f2.jpg

Front Bumper:
Severe swirls and OP. Little to no CC on on lowest parts of bumper.
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t300/telram/IMG_20131230_160937_zps318267c3.jpg

[wrb_subie]

sseeexxyyyy

[Klasse Act]

Telram, posting auto porn IS allowed, please continue!

Sent from my SPH-M930 using AG Online

[Klink10]

That is a nice looking car. There are folks on here alot more knowledgeable than me about your process and I hope they chime in and I wish you the best in the re-do. Please post results. Subscribed

[FUNX650]

Good idea to practice your technique on some panels with the tools/products you've listed
before you get to deal with what the body shop winds up giving back to you:
The necessity to refine the paint to your expectations.

Too bad the practice panels are on this vehicle!!

Also:
Is there really an honest to goodness Nano-coating?

Have FUN on your project.

:)

Bob

[AC in OC]

First off, welcome to AG! Secondly, awesome car!

You'd mentioned that this is not your DD, but more of a garage queen - rightly so. If you have another car that you can get your bearings on, like a DD, I would start there. This Supra has a timeless body with not a whole lot of flat panels. While the PCXP likely won't do much damage at all since it isn't a forced rotation tool, it could get a little frustrating get the feel for it on all those curved panels. It tends to stop spinning when it gets to a curved panel, but if you've got some practice time with it you can get better results on the Supra.

I didn't see what size pads you have, but if you have the 5.5" ones, that's a good start. You'll probably want to get the 3" pads/backing plate for the tricky areas on the car.

Make sure to mark your BP like Mike P. demonstrates in the how-to-video.

Thanks for sharing the pics, and feel free to post more during the process.

[jamesalanb]

Nice nice niiiice car man! I admire and fret that your first go round will be on a car of this nature. You've got a great line up of tools for what you're hoping to achieve. I understand the denim pad to be a rather aggressive option, that's what gives it the great cutting ability on orange peel. I may be wrong on that though, as I too am just a hobbyist. I hate orange peel as much as the next Geek, but as many others have said, I've learned to live with it. A necessary evil, if you will. You've got the perfect opportunity though if you're having areas re-sprayed and can afford the possibility of extra panels. As far as the rest, you've got the right approach with products and pads, and more importantly you know to aim for least aggressive first.
I've not been around as many re-sprays as a lot of guys but I'd wonder about the hue of black paints and the CC sprayed on top varying slightly from section to section. Am I just overly pessimistic to think that would be the case?
As I'm sure you've read, take your time. Nothing will be easy or fast at any point in detailing, especially not your first. It will however be extremely rewarding to see your car on a blindingly sunny day, with the clearest reflections of any vehicle around. Good luck, and let us know how it goes!

[cardaddy]

Telram, :welcome:to AGO!

And might I add that you did an EXCELLENT job on your (basically) first post sir!
Excellent use of forum resources in uploading and resizing photos in the thread opener, Very good indeed.:applause:

I would say if you were close, bring it here, my son will go NUTS with that car sitting in the garage. But the tag says Ontario so that's out of the question. ;) Unless you plan on getting up VERY VERY early and driving through breakfast, lunch, and dinner to get here! :laughing:

You mentioned you may have to respray some panels. Those could be an excellent place to start as your "test spots". Just that once they're done (after painting) you've got to be incredibly careful not to get anything on them during your correction process.

In a perfect world you'd be able to do the correction then just take it to get the paint done, without having to worry about them ruining your correction job. THAT simply won't happen! They'll trash your work in a body shop, I've no doubt about it.

Best case would be to practice your technique first then reshoot what needs to be done. Then after it comes back you've got to try and work around it. My problem there is I don't even like taping fresh paint and would advise against it. It's a catch 22 there as to whether you do the correction first, or last. :dunno:

Removing the orange peel isn't a ton of fun. I honestly cannot say if you need the denim pad or not. May work just fine with the velvet pad.

Let me just throw this out there. If you are looking to correct all the areas that you are not painting, (and repaint the rest). It's possible to get them to do it for you. They'll have to color sand it after they paint it anyhow, so why not have THEM work on your orange peel areas?

Tell them they don't have to totally finish it "show car ready", just that if they can remove all the orange peel (thinking they'll be responsible for any strike through or burn through as well, AND they should be able to do paint thickness readings). Then tell them that YOU can handle anything with over 2000 grit sanding marks. Considering they'll be color sanding anyhow, getting them to do your other areas should be very cheap, (if not free) with your job. Just a thought. :dunno:

Remember, that even though a shop has done the paint work for you, you may have to correct what they don't get right anyhow. That will (of course) require you wait on the paint to cure. (Not going to get into whether or not it's safe to correct new paints, and baked versus non-baked.) Although, the consensus is that baked paint is safe to correct (as long as you are VERY careful). I wouldn't do it, not till it's cured for a few weeks at least.

Back to the 'tools at hand'.

I'd get more than just the orange and white pads. That is from knowing how sideways a job can go. One of the reasons I like CCS pads is that they have more different pads within the range of yellow to gold. Especially pink and green! ;)

You've already had a comment with a concern that the PC may not be powerful enough with all the curved panels. I cannot speak to that. But I mentioned these other pads because sometimes it's just the little things that makes the biggest difference. I'd say you might want to finish it with something softer than the white pad anyhow. Oddly enough the green says it has less cut than the black, but all mine are much softer. Although that speaks more to density that 'cut'. Just that the black pads are firmer than the green ones. It's the thickness of the CCS pads though that actually help with the curved panels, yet hurt with transfer of power from the machine. Which is why I mentioned getting more. ;) Never can have too many pads! :D


As for your choice of CG compounds/polishes, I'll have to defer to others on those. If I had my way I'd do nothing but Mequiar's SMAT based, which actually works on most stuff out there. Yet I find that I still have to reach for some DAT products here and there, which are usually Menzerna (or Griot's if I'm in the mood). I've used (and still use) a lot of different products, just not those. :dunno:

[Mike Phillips]

Welcome to AutogeekOnline! :welcome:





First off, I will say that although I believe products on the market vary in quality, I believe that techniques trumps product choice when dealing with premium grade products .




The above statement is very well worded and I agree.

Key words being premium grade products.


When you're working on any car paint and especially a thin, scratch-sensitive clearcoat paint system, the the first most important factor to influence your end-results is the abrasive technology. The abrasives are the primary products touching the paint for any correction or polishing work.



I see guys post this all the time,

Technique is number #1


But in my opinion they're wrong. You can have the best technique in the world but if the stuff inside the bottles cannot remove defects without leaving defects at the same time then all the technique in the world isn't going to matter because it all starts at the surface level. Not the tool holding level.


That said, everything you need to get the job done right the first time...


The Wolfgang Four (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/74198-wolfgang-four.html)


Here are four products that will take care of about 99.9% of any exterior paint correction product you'll ever have in your garage.


The Wolfgang Four
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/722/The_Wolfgang_Four.jpg


Forum member RFulmer (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-tools-accessories/73908-need-help-rupes-flex-6.html#post1003767) coined this term, (due credit where credit is due), and since there's been a lot of questions about what each product is, what they do, the order of aggressiveness and when you use one over the other, here's some info...



Uber Compound

Aggressive Compound - More aggressive than Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover and Wolfgang Finishing Glaze.
For use with any type of polisher/buffer and can be used by hand.
Body Shop Safe = Can be used in a fresh paint. environment (body shop) and can be used on fresh paint, (paint just sprayed and less than 30 days old).
Safe for Ceramiclear paints.
Cafe for all clear coat paints.
Safe for all single stage paints.
For some people on some cars it can be used as a compound/polish after which the paint can be sealed with a wax or synthetic paint sealant.



Total Swirl Remover

Medium Cut Polish - Less aggressive than Uber Compound and more aggressive than Wolfgang Finishing Glaze.
For use with any type of polisher/buffer and can be used by hand.
Body Shop Safe = Can be used in a fresh paint. environment (body shop) and can be used on fresh paint, (paint just sprayed and less than 30 days old).
Safe for Ceramiclear paints.
Cafe for all clear coat paints.
Safe for all single stage paints.
Should be tested before using Uber Compound to see if it will remove defects to our satisfaction in keeping with the practice of using the least aggressive product to get the job done.



Finishing Glaze

Fine Cut Polish - Much less aggressive than Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover and of course dramatically less aggressive than Wolfgang Uber Compound.
For use with any type of polisher/buffer and can be used by hand.
Body Shop Safe = Can be used in a fresh paint. environment (body shop) and can be used on fresh paint, (paint just sprayed and less than 30 days old).
Safe for Ceramiclear paints.
Cafe for all clear coat paints.
Safe for all single stage paints.
Should be tested before using Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover to see if it will remove defects to our satisfaction in keeping with the practice of using the least aggressive product to get the job done.
Great "Maintenance Polish" for use removing shallow swirls that show up over time from normal wear-n-tear on daily drivers and after a person has already performed a multi-step procedure to remove serious paint defects.



Deep Gloss Paint Sealant 3.0

German engineered synthetic paint sealant.
Non-cleaning, pure synthetic - Paint must be in excellent condition as in brand new or previously polished to like new condition before use.
Can be applied by hand or any type of dual action polisher wit foam pads.
This product "seals" the paint in the say way a car wax or paint coating will seal the paint. It is water insoluble and as such like all synthetic paint sealants, car waxes and paint coatings is not body shop safe.
Requires 30 to 45 minutes of drying time before removal.
Oxygen activated. After buffing off the excess sealant the remaining protection ingredients should be allowed to cure and fully set-up for an approximate 12 hour window of time before the vehicle is put back into service where it will be exposed to water.



Synergistic Chemical Compatibility
Each product is chemically compatible and chemically beneficial when used as a system approach to take a diamond in the rough and turn it into a glistening gemstone. Using the entire line in the correct order or just a few of the product in the correct order is an example of working forward in the paint polishing process.


All Inclusive System-Approach
This group of four products with just about any tool, any pad and even by hand will produce not only show car results but do it consistently across a VERY wide spectrum of paint systems including,

Hard paints, soft paints and everything in-between.
Factory OEM paints and aftermarket repaints at your local body shop or custom paint shop.
Single stage and basecoat clearcoat.

Which products do you need?
Which product you'll need depend upon the condition of the paint on the car. Click to my list of paint condition categories and read through the descriptions for the different categories. Then after washing and drying your car, inspect the paint both with your sense of touch, (The Baggie Test), and visually with your eyes in bright light for swirls and scratches.

Then determine which category your car's paint fall into. Here are some general guidelines but the best way to determine which exact product you'll need to remove the defects and restore the finish on your car to your expectations can only be determined by doing a Test Spot


How To Do a Test Spot (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/50162-how-do-test-spot.html)


Test Spot results showing the before and after difference...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1422/FlexVideo005.jpg






On Autogeek.net

Wolfgang Uber Compound 3.0 (http://www.autogeek.net/wg-5601.html)

Total Swirl Remover (http://www.autogeek.net/wolfgang-total-swirl-remover-car-polish-3-0.html)

Finishing Glaze (http://www.autogeek.net/wolfgang-finishing-glaze-finishing-polish-3-0.html)


Deep Gloss Paint Sealant 3.0 (http://www.autogeek.net/wg5500.html)


http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/images/smilies/xyxthumbs.gif

[Mike Phillips]

While I included the synthetic paint sealant for this article because these are 4 liquids that are very popular and have a long history of success when used by people with a wide variety of skills and experience as well as a wide variety of paint systems, I myself now days lean towards paint coatings.

If not paint coatings then finishing waxes.


Here's the Wolfgang Finishing Wax on a car that is VERY different than yours but the results created by the polishing and then the wax are incredible.


Blown 1934 Ford Pick-up - Show Car Makeover - Modeled by Kristin (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/pictures-autogeek-s-car-week/43007-blown-1934-ford-pick-up-show-car-makeover-modeled-kristin.html)


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1310/Project34012.jpg



:)

[telram]

First off thanks for the warm welcome, complements and feedback. I'm very happy to be part of this online community.

That said, here are some comments and follow-up questions that some of your replies have brought to mind.

Comments:



It's a catch 22 there as to whether you do the correction first, or last. :dunno:


You bring up some good points, maybe I will start on the panels I plan to respray as well as the hood and roof (which should be less likely to be damaged at the body shop).



Let me just throw this out there. If you are looking to correct all the areas that you are not painting, (and repaint the rest). It's possible to get them to do it for you. They'll have to color sand it after they paint it anyhow, so why not have THEM work on your orange peel areas?

Another great suggestion cardaddy! Although, I'm actually approaching this as a labour of love, maybe I will leave the panels with the most orange peel for the body shop to work on.



Follow-up Questions:



I didn't see what size pads you have, but if you have the 5.5" ones, that's a good start. You'll probably want to get the 3" pads/backing plate for the tricky areas on the car.


I have a 5" BP with 5.5" Pads. Seeing as the car does have quite a few curves, is it advisable to order a 3" BP with appropriately sized pads?



I understand the denim pad to be a rather aggressive option, that's what gives it the great cutting ability on orange peel.

Seeing as I'm using a DA, it was my understanding that the velvet pads might not have enough cut to correct the OP. If someone with hands on experience can chime in that would be great.


While I included the synthetic paint sealant for this article because these are 4 liquids that are very popular and have a long history of success when used by people with a wide variety of skills and experience as well as a wide variety of paint systems, I myself now days lean towards paint coatings.

Mike thanks for the tip on the Wolfgang products, I will definitely look into these next. As far as the synthetic sealants, I am looking for something that is more durable and longer lasting as I have less time these days for maintaining the protection/shine on my car. This would lead me to believe that a synthetic products are the right choice. Unfortunately, I am less knowledgeable in this area.

That said, what are your thoughts on the nano-coatings vs more traditional sealants?

Thanks again everyone!

[Mike Phillips]

Mike thanks for the tip on the Wolfgang products, I will definitely look into these next.

As far as the synthetic sealants, I am looking for something that is more durable and longer lasting as I have less time these days for maintaining the protection/shine on my car.

This would lead me to believe that a synthetic products are the right choice. Unfortunately, I am less knowledgeable in this area.

That said, what are your thoughts on the nano-coatings vs more traditional sealants?

Thanks again everyone!




My opinion is that paint coatings, that is good reputable name brand paint coatings will last longer than car waxes and synthetic paint sealants.

Currently I'm keeping coatings on both the cars in our household.


Just to note however, I tend to use my truck as a rolling test panel and also as a canvas to showcase new products. So while right now it is coated with Black Label I never know what I'll be using next.


:)