Buffing and damaging clearcoat?

[nodule]

Hi,
Last week, I had to have my front bumper repainted on my 2013 Honda Civic EX sedan. The color is called Crimson Pearl, which is a burgundy color. A shopping cart left a long
ugly scratch that I could not live with.

The auto body shop I use is a highly respected AAA approved shop in Central NJ. They did
a great job and return my car with a perfect match.
I asked the manager about detailing and he tells me I should NEVER let a detailer buff or
machine polish my car JUST to remove light spider webbing or swirls or surface scratches.
He tells me no matter how skilled or experienced the detailer claims to be, he is always removing a thin layer or clearcoat and only will shorten the life of my car's paint finish!
He says why would you wanna do that??
He says light minor swirling on dark color cars is something you just have to live with
and its very common. He says that BEST way to maintain the paint is gentle hand washes, waxing and sealing regularly, NOT buffing!

So my question is even if I find a skilled detailer, exactly how much clearcoat is lost with
a full machine polish to remove very light swirls/surface scratches?? Is it really worth the
risk??

[DetailKitty]

Ummmmm.... OK.

YES- you do loose a small amount of clear coat when you polish/correct.

But to me, it is well worth it over having my paint look like crap.
If that's the case, why even bother getting the bumper resprayed?

The key is to know what you are doing OR find someone you know and trust that knows what they are doing. If they do, you will not be disappointed with the results and you will not be damaging your car's paint.

I think maybe the shop was warning you because there are a lot of hacks out there that have no idea what they are doing and will cause damage.

[GenesisCoupe]

I do a light polish on my car every late spring to remove whatever winter brought; sometimes i'll have an entire panel with no defects, while sometimes i'll have minor swirls or scratches that come out after 2 section passes. The car looks great all summer long after that.

Don't ever listen to a paint/body shop.

[Mike Phillips]

he tells me I should NEVER let a detailer buff or
machine polish my car JUST to remove light spider webbing or swirls or surface scratches.

He tells me no matter how skilled or experienced the detailer claims to be, he is always removing a thin layer or clearcoat and only will shorten the life of my car's paint finish!

He says why would you wanna do that??

He says light minor swirling on dark color cars is something you just have to live with
and its very common. He says that BEST way to maintain the paint is gentle hand washes, waxing and sealing regularly, NOT buffing!



To some degree he has a point only in that if the car in question is a daily driver and a dark color, it takes a little work on the owner's side to keep and maintain a 100% swirl free finish. That's because clearcoat paints scratch so easily and the masses don't know how to was a car carefully.

I'd disagree with him in that I do believe it's possible to safely machine buff a clearcoat. I do it all the time. Been doing it all my life or since clearcoats were introduced to the market to take the place of single stage lacquers and enamels.





So my question is even if I find a skilled detailer, exactly how much clearcoat is lost with a full machine polish to remove very light swirls/surface scratches??

Is it really worth the risk??




As long as you hire a knowledgeable and skilled detailer and they use the least aggressive product to get the job done approach, then very little clear paint will be removed.

Is it worth the risk?

As long as you hire a knowledgeable and skilled detailer AND like the painter stated

He says that BEST way to maintain the paint is gentle hand washes, waxing and sealing regularly


Somewhere on this forum I sanded and buffed some factory paint and measured the paint thickness very carefully on the same reference point on the panel and documented how much paint was removed. When it came to using a Fine Cut Polish with a foam pad on a dual action polisher very little paint was removed.



Big picture...

I you want your car to look show room new, then machine polish it the right way or hire someone to machine polish it the right way and then after that you take ownership of the washing, drying and maintaining of the paint.

Unless you have a physical restriction to work I would suggest getting the tools, pads and chemicals to do it yourself because it will cost you about the same as it would to hire someone only if you invest in the tools, pads and chemicals down the road you can always take care of any and all of your vehicles whenever you want instead of hiring someone again.


You always have this forum to help you...


:)

[Mike Phillips]

Don't ever listen to a paint/body shop.



Body shops, dealerships and "yes" even some detail shops tend and trend to be the cause of most hack-up paint jobs we read about on this forum.

Unless the owner or the staff of a body shop, dealership or detail shop hang out on a forum like this one or go to a class like the one I teach you never know what they know...


Too often all these three business's know is rotary buffer/compound and rotary buffer/polish.


I explain what goes on inside the industry in-depth in this article,

The story of 3 H's - Horrendous, Horror Story and Hack Detailers... (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/28142-story-3-h-s-horrendous-horror-story-hack-detailers.html)


Note that I word this article VERY CAREFULLY so as not to hurt anyone's feelings.




:)

[jankerson]

Hi,
Last week, I had to have my front bumper repainted on my 2013 Honda Civic EX sedan. The color is called Crimson Pearl, which is a burgundy color. A shopping cart left a long
ugly scratch that I could not live with.

The auto body shop I use is a highly respected AAA approved shop in Central NJ. They did
a great job and return my car with a perfect match.
I asked the manager about detailing and he tells me I should NEVER let a detailer buff or
machine polish my car JUST to remove light spider webbing or swirls or surface scratches.
He tells me no matter how skilled or experienced the detailer claims to be, he is always removing a thin layer or clearcoat and only will shorten the life of my car's paint finish!
He says why would you wanna do that??
He says light minor swirling on dark color cars is something you just have to live with
and its very common. He says that BEST way to maintain the paint is gentle hand washes, waxing and sealing regularly, NOT buffing!

So my question is even if I find a skilled detailer, exactly how much clearcoat is lost with
a full machine polish to remove very light swirls/surface scratches?? Is it really worth the
risk??


He is right to a point...

Once the paint is right and defects are removed then regular maintenance is the key.

No, one wouldn't want to use a heavy compound with an aggressive pad on their car all the time.....

However a finishing polish on a polishing pad on a DA Polisher to clean things up once or twice a year really won't remove enough clear to be harmful.

[jankerson]

So my question is even if I find a skilled detailer, exactly how much clearcoat is lost with
a full machine polish to remove very light swirls/surface scratches?? Is it really worth the
risk??

That really depends on how deep the scratches are...

If one can feel them as in if your fingernail catches them then they are too deep to remove safely.

Swirls are generally not all that deep and can be removed safely.

A finishing polish like Meguires M205 can remove light swirls with a polishing pad using a DA polisher without too much trouble.

The trick is to use the least aggressive product and pad combination to get the results needed.

The paint has to be maintained in the end though, and maintained regularly no matter what.

Just waxing and washing alone won't do it because the paint will still get dirty and contaminated and grit will stick to the paint over time. That has to be removed and light scratches and swirls should be removed also to maintain a clean smooth surface. If the paint isn't maintained the clear coat will fail faster than if it wasn't, also the car will be worth more on a trade in if it's maintained correctly.

That's unless it's a show car with perfect paint kept in a garage under a cover 95% of the time and transported by covered trailer...... Maintenance would be pretty low on that....

[nodule]

Thanks for responding, Mike! and the others here too!
Just to give you an idea....
On overcast days, my Civic's paint looks pretty close to flawless, great shine and no scratches at all can be seen. However, on super bright sunny days, ONLY at certain angles, you can see the very light spider webbing and or swirling on some body panels. These are all VERY light
and certainly NOT deep at all. Even than, you really have to look for them and certain angles to see them...its minor, but it bugs me!

Thats why I am thinking that NON aggressive buffing should successfully remove these flaws, assuming I find a skilled experienced detailer. Correct?

Its a Civic, so obviously its a daily driver! But I want to keep the finish maintained as much as possible, without going overboard on a $20,000.00 economy car!

[Mike Phillips]

Its a Civic, so obviously its a daily driver! But I want to keep the finish maintained as much as possible, without going overboard on a $20,000.00 economy car!




Start a thread like this,


Pro Detailer wanted in Resume Speed, Iowa


(Fill in the correct name of your city and state)


We have a lot of talented detailers here that because they're here they know what they are doing and can help you.



:xyxthumbs:

[nodule]

Thanks Mike,
What category do you suggest posting the "Pro Detailer wanted" thread?
I want to be sure I post in the correct forum.

[jankerson]

Thanks for responding, Mike! and the others here too!
Just to give you an idea....
On overcast days, my Civic's paint looks pretty close to flawless, great shine and no scratches at all can be seen. However, on super bright sunny days, ONLY at certain angles, you can see the very light spider webbing and or swirling on some body panels. These are all VERY light
and certainly NOT deep at all. Even than, you really have to look for them and certain angles to see them...its minor, but it bugs me!

Thats why I am thinking that NON aggressive buffing should successfully remove these flaws, assuming I find a skilled experienced detailer. Correct?

Its a Civic, so obviously its a daily driver! But I want to keep the finish maintained as much as possible, without going overboard on a $20,000.00 economy car!


Sounds like it won't take anything aggressive at all to clean it up and make it really shine. :xyxthumbs:

Like Mike said start a thread and someone here can help you I am sure. :dblthumb2: