But it's an exotic car- they'll detail it right!

[Romans5.8]

There's a lot of discussion on this forum about not letting DEALERS touch the finish of our cars. Sometimes there's a discussion about whether or not the same concerns you'd have at, say, a high volume Chevy dealership- exist at a premier auto dealership where you might buy a Bentley.

I can't answer for the dealerships- but after watching this video on Bentley Quality control I definitely see that the issue is endemic to even high end MANUFACTURERS! While it was fascinating to see that every car goes on a 40 minute test drive (My Ford was only driven off the line onto a parking lot after a quick 'visual' inspection; it's actually up to the dealer to do the final mechanical inspection and test drive). It was also neat to see that even the tiniest 'flaws' will send a Bentley back for repairs.

BUT; I also saw;

1) Wiping (scrubbing) down the cars with some sort of unfolded thin rags (disposable?) after the test drive to get rid of dust and dirt from the test drive.

2) The lady being interviewed using a thin microfiber buffing towel, unfolded (using the corner) on various spots on the car

3) The 'light booth' they use to inspect the paint was cool; but it seems if a Bentley has any paint correction; it's done exclusively with a rotary buffer and wool pad. No doubt a company like that uses someone who knows their way around a rotary buffer BUT that is STILL a pretty aggressive technique.

Those aren't nearly as bad as dealership wash techniques and brushed washing machines. BUT, if even BENTLEY uses outdated techniques and less than idea methods in their FACTORY- then I wouldn't automatically trust your dealer to touch the finish of your car regardless of brand! (Not at least without quizzing them first on the techniques they use!).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQGifE-oZgA

[Kacz]

Rupes polisher at 7:16 on the cart to the left?

Bentley dealers are sometimes no different than a BMW dealer; they still don't know much of anything about detailing and the egos are worse.

[Romans5.8]

Rupes polisher at 7:16 on the cart to the left?

Bentley dealers are sometimes no different than a BMW dealer; they still don't know much of anything about detailing and the egos are worse.

Good catch! Could be! This is definitely "the best of the worst" if that makes any sense, and far better than most other manufacturers (if Ford notices a defect in the paint they take an air sander to it and send it back through the paint booth- tells you how cheap their paint is!). But I still noticed a lot of things that people on AGO, and most 'well informed' detailers of the past few years would never do. Not saying a rotary buffer doesn't have a place, but unless he was correcting some serious orange peel- I doubt a rotary and wool pad has ANY place on a brand new cars paint. Not to mention the dirty rag wipedown they got after the test drive. At least the lady was using a microfiber towel! Was not folded though!

My whole point though, was that don't overestimate your brand or dealer. If it were me? I'd quiz them. Ask them how they are going to wash and detail the car. Or 'spy' on them like I did with my dealer. I went up there to order the car and before telling the salesman not to wash my car, I stepped outside for a minute instead of waiting in 'the hot box' (those little cubicles salesmen make you sit in), and watched the 'porter' detail a car. I didn't like what I saw so I asked them not to wash mine.

Others on this forum have experienced the same thing on everything from a Prius to a Lamborghini. jpegs picked up an Aventador recently and mentioned finding DISO's on it. So don't think just because it's expensive, that there aren't cost cuts and the same poor quality detail stuff going on.

[Kacz]

I have the ability to visit 35 dealers (I think) basically whenever I want. (Some are out of state, but we visit them when on vacation...GF is in charge of them)

Let me tell you: there is some scary stuff that goes on, so I've made it a goal of mine to teach as much as I can whenever I'm there. Teach the porters, detail techs, service advisors, whoever...

Doesn't matter what kind of dealer: Lamborghini, Bentley, BMW, MB, Jeep-Dodge-Chrysler, Land Rover etc...I've been to them and they all do the same stuff and have the same problems.

No dealer will ever clean any part of my car.

[Romans5.8]

I have the ability to visit 35 dealers (I think) basically whenever I want. (Some are out of state, but we visit them when on vacation...GF is in charge of them)

Let me tell you: there is some scary stuff that goes on, so I've made it a goal of mine to teach as much as I can whenever I'm there. Teach the porters, detail techs, service advisors, whoever...

Doesn't matter what kind of dealer: Lamborghini, Bentley, BMW, MB, Jeep-Dodge-Chrysler, Land Rover etc...I've been to them and they all do the same stuff and have the same problems.

No dealer will ever clean any part of my car.

Unfortunately, I think people have this idea that these high end dealers have high end employees, but it's not always the case. I saw an ad in the paper a couple years ago for an auto dealer in St.Louis that does all the major exotics and luxury brands (Audi, BMW, Porsche, Lamborghini, etc.) Everything except for Ferrari because apparently a decade ago they got into some issue with Ferrari. It was an ad for a 'detail specialist'. $8.50 an hour. Do you think an Auto-Geek quality detailer with years of experience is going to leave their gig for $8.50 an hour? Nope! And it'll be the same as my Ford dealer- some manager screaming at this kid to get done faster, 'detail' these cars in 20 or 30 minutes. Wool pad and glaze, you name it. When you see a McLaren go into an automatic car wash with brushes; you realize that he vast majority of folks have simply no clue what a swirl is!

In fact, even salesmen at exotic car dealers don't really make that much more than their 'domestic' counterparts. Their commissions may be higher but the volume of sales is much lower and the brand nor the dealerships do anything to compensate for that. Fact is, the product is the product. The CARS might be superior in some way or another- but the dealers all, pretty much, work the same. The back of your mind wants to think "It's a high end car, they've invested more money in giving me a level of service and care that this car needs" but that's just not true. Matter of fact, my Uncle; who did car sales all through College, worked first at a Mercury dealer, then went to a Porsche dealer, and went back to the Mercury dealer because he made more money there.

[JKL1031]

Dont be alarmed, the company I work for does not use rotaries, pneumatic DA.

[SYMAWD]

A car is rarely perfect from the factory. Keep in mind that a car is painted very early in the assembly process and then realize how many people touch the car before it arrives at the dealership.

Here is a picture of a car that I unwrapped, meaning I was the first person to see the paint after it left the factory.

http://i1014.photobucket.com/albums/af270/SYMAWD/IMAG1993_zpse75fdb64.jpg (http://s1014.photobucket.com/user/SYMAWD/media/IMAG1993_zpse75fdb64.jpg.html)

[Romans5.8]

A car is rarely perfect from the factory. Keep in mind that a car is painted very early in the assembly process and then realize how many people touch the car before it arrives at the dealership.

Here is a picture of a car that I unwrapped, meaning I was the first person to see the paint after it left the factory.

http://i1014.photobucket.com/albums/af270/SYMAWD/IMAG1993_zpse75fdb64.jpg (http://s1014.photobucket.com/user/SYMAWD/media/IMAG1993_zpse75fdb64.jpg.html)

For sure- and that's precisely why I wanted to detail my own. On the tremendous off chance that the dealer notice those marrings (more likely, they'll just cover them up with more with their wash process), they would probably use an aggressive approach to rapidly correct the defect. Not a delicate approach of "Start with the least aggressive" like is talked about here. That was the only reason I pointed out the rotaries being used at Bentley; not because it's a 'bad' technique, just that it's aggressive and in the video, it APPEARS that they are using it 'first'. The real issues in that video were how the vehicles were cleaned and rubbed on.

I unwrapped my own car too, except for two spots; the spoiler and the pillars on the doors. My salesman instructed everyone not to prep it, but someone started on it before he caught them. They had already used a dirty rag and heavy duty cleaners to remove the residue from those parts and thus they had a lot of swirls and scratches (which my GG DA made quick work of). However, interestingly enough, I didn't find any other marring on the car. I think there is, actually, an advantage with lower end domestic cars in that respect. Bentley peaked around 10k units a year. In 2012, my car (Ford Focus); just one particular model of a large brand, sold 246,000. That's several hundred cars a day. There is no light booth, no wipe down, no test drive. "Quality Control" is a quick visual inspection and some guy turning on the blinkers to make sure they work. It never gets cleaned or touched at the factory aside from when each part was installed (and many of those were attached in some way to an arm or a machine anyway). That's all on the dealer to do. If you don't let the dealer do it, then the car has never been rubbed on with any sort of towel, wiped down, or anything more than touched enough to assemble it. And when you are building a complete car in a day and churning out hundreds per day at just one plant- you aren't touching it very much because it's already time to touch the next car! That means it's not the quality of a Bentley, but modern production is darn good so it's still a reliable car for a good price AND I didn't see any marring or scratches aside from the couple the dealer put in. Not saying everyone needs to trade in their Lambo's for Focus'es, I'm just saying- it's an interesting 'side effect' of having a car that spent 15 minutes in quality control and was moving down an assembly line and thrown together by robots, machines, and hundreds of employees in a matter of 18 hours.

[TundraPower]

Paul Dalton started Miracle Detail based on the fact that new cars were delivered in a bad state at the beginning. He started as a "detailer" at a BMW dealership.

[Andr3wilson]

Not all dealership detailers are bad. Norden Porsche here in Edmonton actually had their guys professionally trained and use the best products. They have a few Rupes and good polishes.

Quite often at the Factory, they will not fix any little marks, the pass that cost onto the dealerships.

I had a grey aventador that was full of hard sanding marks, all over the damn car.

My Tundra had holograms in the door.

So at the end of the day really doesn't matter who sells it, when someone who doesn't know better touches the car, its marked up. Remember most people dont know the difference between swirls and squirrels!

[Kacz]

Unfortunately, I think people have this idea that these high end dealers have high end employees, but it's not always the case. I saw an ad in the paper a couple years ago for an auto dealer in St.Louis that does all the major exotics and luxury brands (Audi, BMW, Porsche, Lamborghini, etc.) Everything except for Ferrari because apparently a decade ago they got into some issue with Ferrari. It was an ad for a 'detail specialist'. $8.50 an hour. Do you think an Auto-Geek quality detailer with years of experience is going to leave their gig for $8.50 an hour? Nope! And it'll be the same as my Ford dealer- some manager screaming at this kid to get done faster, 'detail' these cars in 20 or 30 minutes. Wool pad and glaze, you name it. When you see a McLaren go into an automatic car wash with brushes; you realize that he vast majority of folks have simply no clue what a swirl is!

That's how it seems to be. Most customers think the dealer can diagnose and fix any paint problem they have, when in reality most likely no one there knows what the problem is at all. I do my best to help out when I can, since I don't like to see people get ripped off or leave uniformed.

Its funny because you have it right about the person making minimum wage; they get a rotary and some mass produced glaze and they go to town: minus the yelling there. When I was on vacation in another state we visited their Bentley/Lambo/Rolls dealer and it was great because we had perfect timing. They could not figure out what the problem was with the paint on a black Lamborghini; Its molested by holograms, I said...and you're the detail manager???


In fact, even salesmen at exotic car dealers don't really make that much more than their 'domestic' counterparts. Their commissions may be higher but the volume of sales is much lower and the brand nor the dealerships do anything to compensate for that. Fact is, the product is the product. The CARS might be superior in some way or another- but the dealers all, pretty much, work the same. The back of your mind wants to think "It's a high end car, they've invested more money in giving me a level of service and care that this car needs" but that's just not true. Matter of fact, my Uncle; who did car sales all through College, worked first at a Mercury dealer, then went to a Porsche dealer, and went back to the Mercury dealer because he made more money there.

It does depend on the pay structure though and it also depends on if its an open floor or not (if they sell both new and used).

Some of the pay plans are amazing, but they even differ from dealer to dealer inside autogroups as well.



I would be curious as to know how many autogroups would be interested in contracting work being done by a professional detailer. This particular auto group has a PDR and wheel repair guy that works full time as 'contracted help'.


*Not all dealers are bad though


A car is rarely perfect from the factory. Keep in mind that a car is painted very early in the assembly process and then realize how many people touch the car before it arrives at the dealership.

Here is a picture of a car that I unwrapped, meaning I was the first person to see the paint after it left the factory.

http://i1014.photobucket.com/albums/af270/SYMAWD/IMAG1993_zpse75fdb64.jpg (http://s1014.photobucket.com/user/SYMAWD/media/IMAG1993_zpse75fdb64.jpg.html)


Listen to this guy about dealers: He always has good inside information about the care of cars at a dealer. Good stuff.

[TundraPower]

A Lexus dealer told me to my face that they hire work release convicts and teenagers to keep the cars on the lot looking fresh.

[Romans5.8]

Not all dealership detailers are bad. Norden Porsche here in Edmonton actually had their guys professionally trained and use the best products. They have a few Rupes and good polishes.

Quite often at the Factory, they will not fix any little marks, the pass that cost onto the dealerships.

I had a grey aventador that was full of hard sanding marks, all over the damn car.

My Tundra had holograms in the door.

So at the end of the day really doesn't matter who sells it, when someone who doesn't know better touches the car, its marked up. Remember most people dont know the difference between swirls and squirrels!

Oh absolutely! No doubt some are great. The point of my little thread here was, how much you pay for the car has little to do with the quality of detailing work the dealer and/or manufacturer is going to do.


A Lexus dealer told me to my face that they hire work release convicts and teenagers to keep the cars on the lot looking fresh.

Sometimes I think the salesman on the lot are worse than the detail guys. My uncle (the one who did car sales for a few years) told me that when it was slow, they would go around with paper towels and windex and wipe down the cars so that they were clean and shiny should a prospective client show up.

My dealer has a black Mustang GT 500KR with Carol Shelby's signature on it proudly displayed inside the showroom (they actually have a small showroom; it's that Mustang and an F-150 and that's it inside). It's full of spiderwebs and swirls all over. I'm sure a lot of that is from constant rubbing and wiping to keep it 'showroom clean'.

Interestingly, the cars on the lot are often dusty and dirty as they don't get detailed until they are sold unless the detail guy has nothing else to do (what my salesman told me). However, when I did ask to test drive a particular car that they didn't have in stock. They borrowed one from another dealer so I could test drive it, and my salesman went and got it and drove it back. But they did have the detail guy detail it before I got up there to test it to make it nice and shiny. (Lots of swirls and scratches!). So I'm sure it was a rushed job just so I wasn't test driving a dirty car.

[LilJayV10]

A Lexus dealer told me to my face that they hire work release convicts and teenagers to keep the cars on the lot looking fresh.

The dealership I work at hires teenagers who lay MF towels on the ground then pick them up and wipe wax off. At first it was like finger nails on a chaulk board and I tried teaching them a few simple things but that fell on deaf ears.

The fact is they don't care which works out well because most people who buy/drive cars don't care.

I care. But does anyone care that I do? No. Oh well. :buffing: