Am I doing something wrong?

[LS430FL]

Hi everyone, I am trying to do a nice thing for my mom and clean up her Lexus rx350 a little bit. It is long overdue. I have a portercable 7424xp and I bought some orange, white and blue lake county flat faced pads. I also got some M105 and M205 and some wolfgang 3.0 paint sealer. I got all this during the amazing black friday sale. Here the problem. It seems after doing one section pass of either 105 or 205 it is already dry. Is it still working? After going through a taped off area with M105 and orange pad then 205 with white pad there are still some hairline light scratched and swirls. What am I doing wrong? I clayed beforehand and applied the sealant but its still not perfect.

Any help or tips would really help me out. Feed back please

Thank you very much!!

[swanicyouth]

You have to figure out if the "scratches" are the original defects or artifacts from M105. That is why a test spot on an easy to see piece of real estate, like the trunk, is key. Put down a tape line and do a test spot. See if the "scratches" are extending over your tapeline in the same pattern. If so, you need to make your cut more aggressive. There are numerous ways of doing this.

If not, and it's micro-marring from the compounding step, then you need to *try* to clean it up with M205. In the the later case you could need a less aggressive combo, as the M205 could also be leaving it's own micro marring if the paint is very soft. It's unlikely M205 (on the pad you described) isn't "cleaning up" the M105 - assuming good technique and work time.

Some thing you can do to increase the work time of any polish it to add a spritz or two (no more) of QD, pad spray, or ONR 1:16 to the pad. Using DI water can also make the cut slightly more aggressive, and increase the work time. One thing you don't want to do is use EXTRA polish in an attempt to boost your work time, as that can cause multiple issues.

All this is assuming he pads were initially primed correctly.

[zmcgovern45]

What color is the car?

Lexus paints can be very soft (especially obsidian black). What you may be describing as 'light hairline scratches and swirls' may in fact be marring left from the compound or polish that was not able to be finished down well enough.


This is not a Lexus, but the photos will demonstrate what I am talking about.

This is a hood of a 2011 Camaro with custom painted stripes. The black paint was quite soft.

Here is the condition of the hood before any correction.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1013913_265461273591999_246811978_n.jpg


In this photo, the lower portion has been compounded and the top portion was compounded and then polished. Notice how the bottom portion still has a very fine haze... also known as micro marring. These haze is caused by using a product/pad combo that is too aggressive to properly finish down on the particular paint you are working with and needs to be refined with a lighter product/pad combo.
https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/1012771_265461710258622_656364483_n.jpg




You mentioned that you had blue pads... you could try the M205 with the blue pads. Typically you would want to use very light pressure, slower machine speed (maybe around 4 on the Porter Cable) and slow arm speed... but vary your technique if needed to produce the results you are seeking.

[LS430FL]

thanks for the quick replies! The car is Matador red. I am going to try again and see if the scratches may be from the 105. I also have the wolfgang swirl remover and finishing glaze on hand. Should I try that instead? or use the 105 and use the WG finishing glaze instead of the 205?

[swanicyouth]

Can you post a well lit pic of the defects ?


YES. Try the WG polishes. I think that may solve yr problem if it's M105 marring.

[RFulmer]

Can you post a well lit pic of the defects ?


YES. Try the WG polishes. I think that may solve yr problem if it's M105 marring.

What he said. I had a Mini with soft paint and always was hazy after polishing. I used the Wolfgang Finishing Glaze and a finishing (non-cutting) pad to clear it up.

And don't be in a hurry, the PC can take time, work the polish till it becomes translucent. Once you get your test spot looking good you'll have a workflow that will help you do the rest of the car more quickly, but still don't get in a hurry.

[swanicyouth]

It can take days to polish a jacked up car with a PC. The results can be as close to perfect as any other polisher using modern pads and correction fluids though. You gotta take yr time.

[Mike Phillips]

I am going to try again and see if the scratches may be from the 105.

I also have the wolfgang swirl remover and finishing glaze on hand.





M105 = Aggressive Compound
Total Swirl Remover = Medium Cut Polish
Finishing Glaze = Fine Cut Polish


What you want to do is called, troubleshooting. You troubleshoot to find out where the root cause of the problem lies.

Step 1: Buff a section with the M105

Step 2: Re-buff just a portion of this section the the TSR

Now inspect the results.

If the section you buffed with the M105 has scratches these are either,

A: Deeper scratches we call RIDS and you should probably learn to live with the deepest.

or

B: DA Haze - This is the haze the "aggressive" nature of a compound and normally a cutting foam pad can leave behind. This can be normal as long as it comes out with the next less aggressive process.


Now inspect the section you buffed with the Wolfgang TSR.

If you see still see the deeper scratches like described in A: above, then these scratches are deeper than the shallow scratches that you did successfully buff out. You can either go back to M105 and tweak your technique and continue removing more paint and this will level these deeper scratches.

Maybe someone can share the picture of the 3M Post-it note I posted to a number of threads so this guy can get an understanding as to how thin factory paint is.



If the scratches are gone then the scratches you were seeing were likely DA Haze, also called Tick Marks also called micro-marring.

If the paint is now looking pretty good, test out the Finishing Glaze, it should make it look even better.


The Big Picture Idea is to troubleshoot to see where the scratches either started are are being induced in your process. Not always a bad thing, just how it is.

Clear coat paints are scratch-sensitive. Remember this.



:)

[Mike Phillips]

Here is the condition of the hood before any correction.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1013913_265461273591999_246811978_n.jpg


In this photo, the lower portion has been compounded and the top portion was compounded and then polished. Notice how the bottom portion still has a very fine haze... also known as micro marring. These haze is caused by using a product/pad combo that is too aggressive to properly finish down on the particular paint you are working with and needs to be refined with a lighter product/pad combo.
https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/1012771_265461710258622_656364483_n.jpg





Darn good example of what the results from troubleshooting should look like if everything being done is correct and normal.

Nice work.


:dblthumb2:

[LS430FL]

What he said. I had a Mini with soft paint and always was hazy after polishing. I used the Wolfgang Finishing Glaze and a finishing (non-cutting) pad to clear it up.

And don't be in a hurry, the PC can take time, work the polish till it becomes translucent. Once you get your test spot looking good you'll have a workflow that will help you do the rest of the car more quickly, but still don't get in a hurry.

Well it looks the like wolfgang was just the ticket. Got out there today and tried it on the hood after the M105. Paint looks extra clear no more scratches or marring. Thanks everybody for your help! :xyxthumbs:

[TundraPower]

Wolfgang Finishing Glaze is one of my all-time favorite products :)

[swanicyouth]

Glad to here it worked out. The WG line of polishes is quite user friendly.

Perfect case why I wouldn't recommend M105/205 to anyone. If your looking for recommendations on how to fix defects - they may not be the products for you. Keep in mind M105/205 are professional products designed to be used by professionals. They aren't boutique or OTC products.

But, noobs will continue to come here and people will still recommend M105/205.

[RFulmer]

Well it looks the like wolfgang was just the ticket. Got out there today and tried it on the hood after the M105. Paint looks extra clear no more scratches or marring. Thanks everybody for your help! :xyxthumbs:

:xyxthumbs: Thumbs up to you!! Glad it worked out.

[LS430FL]

Glad to here it worked out. The WG line of polishes is quite user friendly.

Perfect case why I wouldn't recommend M105/205 to anyone. If your looking for recommendations on how to fix defects - they may not be the products for you. Keep in mind M105/205 are professional products designed to be used by professionals. They aren't boutique or OTC products.

But, noobs will continue to come here and people will still recommend M105/205.


You are exactly correct. I don't have the expertise to start recommending products to someone unless they have worked for me, however, 105 and 205 are all over this forum which is why I bought them in the first place. I can now see that Wolfgang products works much better for what I need to accomplish. :)

[The Guz]

Glad to hear you got things worked out with wolfgangs. For someone starting out I would not recommend M105/M205. I would tend to go with ultimate compound and ultimate polish form meguiar's.