Very confused about open & closed cell pads

[nubaseal]

Hi There,

So far I have only worked with LC Constant pressure pads, most of which are open cell structure and some hex pads that are either open or closed based on the colour. Never had a problem using them with any compounds or polishes till I started using polishes from Scholl Concepts and Menzerna.

I picked up the Scholl Concepts S40 finishing polish which is their finest/least aggressive jeweling polish and their Black softtouch Waffle finishing pad, which is their softest finishing pad. However, I now read on their website that S40 is a micro polish (no clue what that means) and should not be used with their black finishing pad as it is open cell and the polish will clog up the pad. I have never heard of anything like this and it confused the day lights out of me.

Now I am thinking if I can use any finishing polish with that pad. I have some Menzerna SF4500. How do I know if that is also a micro polish or not? Is there any rule that you should always use a closed cell pad with a finishing polish, irrespective of the fact whether it is a SMAT or DAT Polish?

I want to get into the thick of all things Scholl and try all of the compounds and polishes but I am now uncertain if their pads are the best choice or I should invest in LC Hydro tech pads instead. The HT pads are designed for use with a rotary and I like that. I also like that all of them are close cell so good to work with any brand of polish including Scholl. Have I got it right or should I buy into the Scholl claim that their polishes and pads are part of a system and they work better together?

Thank you for reading.

[swanicyouth]

Only closed cell pads I know of for sure are LC HT pads. Not sure about Scholl pads. Generally it doesn't matter. Closed cell pads are supposed to keep water based polishes on the pad surface, as the closed cells absorb product less / more slowly. Closed cell pads are generally less durable and harder to clean. It shouldn't matter much if the pad is OC/CC as long as the pad is kept clean and not gummed up. I'm sure many have used Scholl's polish w/ open cell pads with fine results. Generally, I find using polishes very sparingly with a supplemental wetting agent works better than using too much polish - less is usually best.

However, if it was me, I still would want to get the recommended pads.

[arisking]

Menzerna would be DAT.

[Dogfather]

Only closed cell pads I know of for sure are LC HT pads. Not sure about Scholl pads. Generally it doesn't matter. Closed cell pads are supposed to keep water based polishes on the pad surface, as the closed cells absorb product less / more slowly. Closed cell pads are generally less durable and harder to clean. It shouldn't matter much if the pad is OC/CC as long as the pad is kept clean and not gummed up. I'm sure many have used Scholl's polish w/ open cell pads with fine results. Generally, I find using polishes very sparingly with a supplemental wetting agent works better than using too much polish - less is usually best.

However, if it was me, I still would want to get the recommended pads.

What are some examples of supplemental wetting agents? I assume water is one.

[spiralout462]

I believe the pad is far less important than the polish and proper technique.

[Mike Phillips]

Only closed cell pads I know of for sure are LC HT pads. Not sure about Scholl pads. Generally it doesn't matter.

Closed cell pads are supposed to keep water based polishes on the pad surface, as the closed cells absorb product less / more slowly. Closed cell pads are generally less durable and harder to clean.

It shouldn't matter much if the pad is OC/CC as long as the pad is kept clean and not gummed up. I'm sure many have used Scholls polish w/ open cell pads with fine results.




Here's a thread with Scholls polishes and pads being used as a system...

Lots of pictures and information...

1949 Chevy 5-Window Pickup Extreme Makeover - Pictures & Videos (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/pictures-autogeek-s-car-week/69059-1949-chevy-5-window-pickup-extreme-makeover-pictures-videos.html)

After we removed all over the overspray, next we the Scholls S3 with the Purple Foam Cutting pads to remove the swirls and scratches.

We followed this with the Schools S40 and the blue foam finishing pads to maximize gloss and clarity.

To seal the paint we applied the Schools Vintage Paste Wax by machine.


Jeff Bell working a Meguiar's G110v2

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2002/1949_Chevy_Truck_050.jpg


Den working a Flex 3401...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2002/1949_Chevy_Truck_051.jpg


Roshan working a Flex 3401...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2002/1949_Chevy_Truck_052.jpg


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2002/1949_Chevy_Truck_053.jpg


Steven working a Griot's DA Polisher...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2002/1949_Chevy_Truck_054.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2002/1949_Chevy_Truck_054a.jpg


Alex working a Griot's DA Polisher...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2002/1949_Chevy_Truck_055.jpg


Craig working a Flex 3401...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2002/1949_Chevy_Truck_056.jpg


Finished...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2002/1949_Chevy_Truck_097.jpg






I believe the pad is far less important than the polish and proper technique.



That's what I say... when doing any type of paint correction work or polishing work the most important factor is first the abrasive technology. After that it's probably technique but a case could be made for putting the right tool on par with the right technique because for some projects, using good technique with the wrong tool won't do much.

After abrasive technology and then technique and tool would come pad type. This isn't to say the pad is not important its just the other three factors are top in importance.

Some guys say technique is everything but I don't agree. You can have the best technique from years of education and experience but if the things touching the paint, that is the abrasive particles are not working good then all the technique in the world won't matter the paint is still not going to look good after wipe-off.



:)

[swanicyouth]

What are some examples of supplemental wetting agents? I assume water is one.

I use the WG Pad Spray. But you can use any QD.

[nubaseal]

That's what I say... when doing any type of paint correction work or polishing work the most important factor is first the abrasive technology.


Thanks for sharing that Mike, very helpful indeed. I read through the entire thread and it gave me enough confidence to go ahead and order all their polishes and pads.

I am not completely sure though what you mean by the above statement. Why is the abrasive technology important - it is either diminishing abrasives like the ones in Scholl Concepts polishes or non-diminishing abrasives like the ones in Optimum or Meguiar's polishes. Are you suggesting that the condition of the paint needs to be a factor while deciding what kind of abrasives to choose? Or you meant that the paintwork should guide one to choose whether to go with a more aggressive (M105) or a less aggressive (M205) abrasive? Look forward to your response.

[Mike Phillips]

I am not completely sure though what you mean by the above statement.

Why is the abrasive technology important - it is either diminishing abrasives like the ones in Scholl Concepts polishes or non-diminishing abrasives like the ones in Optimum or Meguiar's polishes.


Look forward to your response.


Good question and the answer is there's a wide selection of both types qualities of abrasives on the market and it's the specific type being used that makes the difference.

Let me put it this way, there's not just two types and every product contains one or the other.

It really comes down to the abrasive technology and that starts with the brand and the chemist. Here's what I always say on this topic,

Don't skimp when it comes to your compounds and polishes...


You're paint is thin, there's not really the thickness or film-build to be messing around with low quality products.


Scholls makes good stuff... if they didn't... I would not have used them on that truck. I treat most of the project cars like they are my own. See this article,


The Mindset of a Professional Detailer (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/20551-mindset-professional-detailer.html)




The Mindset of the Professional Detailer
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/722/The_Mindset_of_The_Professional_Detailer.jpg


:)