1966 GT Mustang

[BrianMcLeod]

I have a question my dad is finishing up a 66 mustang and he is saying he might need to get it colored sanded / wet sanded it has just been repainted 5 years ago sitting in the garage my question is why get it wet sanded? Can't I just get any defects out of the paint my self

[Evan.J]

Proper tools technique and knowledge are key when it comes to wet sanding. The person doing the sanding and correction makes the paint job.

When you are doing sanding its key to know what you have to work with by using a paint thickness gauge. While this a great tool these only give you a general idea of how much paint you have to work with. Taking the proper readings before a project like sanding should always be done.

Next doing the entire car is a great task and one should always tape off all the body line so not to cut those thin spots and strike though. It's always great to have a nice clean area to sand so you won't have to worry about trapping dirt in between your sanding disc and the panel.

A there are a lot if things to take into consideration when it comes to sanding and correcting a classic car.

[Romans5.8]

I'm a newbie so I'm just responding to try and learn myself but- isn't the usual 'standard operating procedure' to do a test spot with the least aggressive method and work your way up? A compound and a foam pad, for example, and if that doesn't work- a more aggressive compound or pad; then on to wet sanding, etc.

Unless he is talking about getting rid of orange peel? (Which, as I understand it, requires a great deal of paint removal and thus wet sanding is essentially the way to go).

[BrianMcLeod]

Proper tools technique and knowledge are key when it comes to wet sanding. The person doing the sanding and correction makes the paint job.

When you are doing sanding its key to know what you have to work with by using a paint thickness gauge. While this a great tool these only give you a general idea of how much paint you have to work with. Taking the proper readings before a project like sanding should always be done.

Next doing the entire car is a great task and one should always tape off all the body line so not to cut those thin spots and strike though. It's always great to have a nice clean area to sand so you won't have to worry about trapping dirt in between your sanding disc and the panel.

A there are a lot if things to take into consideration when it comes to sanding and correcting a classic car.

Thanks for the info I not asking how to do I'm asking why would you do it?

[Evan.J]

Thanks for the info I not asking how to do I'm asking why would you do it?

Most show cars or classic cars want to have have that perfect paint. No orange peel just a smooth and glass surface and look and to achieve that wet sanding is usually done.

If your gonna have the nice car with a nice paint job might as well go all the way and do it right and have the perfect paint job.

These cars are not a daily driver but show cars and weekend cars so a person can go to great lengths to have the perfect paint and really show of what they truly love, pure American muscle.

[BrianMcLeod]

If there is no orange peel do you still want to do it? If he gets it done what are some questions to ask so we know what he is doing?

[Evan.J]

Brian here are some great articles to read through that go into great depth about why and how the process should go

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wet-sanding-cutting-buffing/23865-if-has-paint-gets-polished.html

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wet-sanding-cutting-buffing/25042-rule-thumb.html

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wet-sanding-cutting-buffing/21471-wetsanding-fresh-paint-vs-factory-paint.html

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wet-sanding-cutting-buffing/26278-wetsanding-colorsanding-dampsanding.html

[BrianMcLeod]

Brian here are some great articles to read through that go into great depth about why and how the process should go

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wet-sanding-cutting-buffing/23865-if-has-paint-gets-polished.html

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wet-sanding-cutting-buffing/25042-rule-thumb.html

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wet-sanding-cutting-buffing/21471-wetsanding-fresh-paint-vs-factory-paint.html

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wet-sanding-cutting-buffing/26278-wetsanding-colorsanding-dampsanding.html

Read it thanks one question if nothing is worng with your paint except for swirls do you need to wet sand?

[281]

I wouldn't think so, painted 5 years ago probably has clear coat. Try a test spot...

[BrianMcLeod]

I wouldn't think so, painted 5 years ago probably has clear coat. Try a test spot...

I think it does and I am pretty sure! I just don't want him wasting his money if thee is no need to. How much is a good wet sand

[Mike Phillips]

I have a question my dad is finishing up a 66 mustang and he is saying he might need to get it colored sanded / wet sanded it has just been repainted 5 years ago sitting in the garage my question is why get it wet sanded?

Can't I just get any defects out of the paint my self




Wetsanding a car like a 1966 Mustang would be to remove orange peel and creates a true show car finish.

Like I show in this thread,

Removing #1500 Sanding Marks with Rupes Bigfoot 21 Polisher (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/70926-removing-1500-sanding-marks-rupes-bigfoot-21-polisher.html)


Yesterday I created a thread to share the new 3M Flexible Hookit Sanding Sheets here,

Dry Sanding & Wet Sanding with 3M's Flexible Abrasive Hookit Sheets (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wet-sanding-cutting-buffing/70898-dry-sanding-wet-sanding-3m-s-flexible-abrasive-hookit-sheets.html)


As a part of sharing them I also sanded a small section on the hood of this hotrod Model A. I sanded just enough to capture a couple of shots showing what orange peel looks like as you start to knock off the tops of the hills to make them level with the valley.

Here's a few pictures from the above thread...


3M Flexible Abrasive Hookit Sheets
These new flexible Hookit sheets us an anti-loading technology to help prevent the face of the paper from loading up with paint as fast and as easily as traditional wet/dry sandpaper.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2070/3M_Flexible_Abrasive_Hookit_Sheets_P1500_004.jpg


I sanded this section with about 10 back and forth passes and found the #1500 to cut incredibly fast.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2070/3M_Flexible_Abrasive_Hookit_Sheets_P1500_005.jpg


Here you can see the orange peel being removed as you look towards the bottom of the picture the orange peel is being removed leaving behind a very flat surface that after compounding and polishing will produce a smooth, high gloss finish with excellent Distinction of Image or DOI.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2070/3M_Flexible_Abrasive_Hookit_Sheets_P1500_006.jpg



Removing Sanding Marks

"It's easy to sand paint... that's putting scratches into the paint. The tricky part is getting them 100% out"


This morning I wanted to test out what it was going to take to remove the sanding marks to get an idea as to how hard the paint is. Normally I would finish out at #3000 or #5000 grit sanding marks to make the compounding step cooler, faster, easier and safer.

Instead, I threw caution to the wind and just tried removing the #1500 grit sanding marks and to do this I used the Rupes Bigfoot 21 Polisher with the Rupes Zephir Gloss Coarse Gel Compound and Blue Foam Cutting Pad followed by the Rupes Keramik Gloss Fine Gel Polish and the Rupes matching Yellow Foam Polishing pad. I followed this with a quick application of Pinnacle XMT 180 Paste Wax machine applied using a Griot's Garage 3" Mini Polisher with a Rupes 4" polishing pad.


This was just a test to a small section as I'm saving this car for this weekends detailing boot camp class. The Rupes Bigfoot 21 along with their compound and foam cutting pad remove 100% of the sanding marks after just a few passes.



This first pictures will frame up the shot so you can see I worked in the same place I hand sanded...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2072/Removing_1500_Sanding_Marks_Rupes_001.jpg


Now I've zoomed in and you can see the orange peel on the right side where I did not sand and how the paint starts to flatten out as you look to the right side of the picture.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2072/Removing_1500_Sanding_Marks_Rupes_002.jpg


Below are some shots taken using different camera settings including one group of shots with the flash on.


Orange Peel

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2072/Removing_1500_Sanding_Marks_Rupes_003.jpg




No Orange Peel but also no sanding marks and no holograms or haze...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2072/Removing_1500_Sanding_Marks_Rupes_004.jpg




Orange Peel

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2072/Removing_1500_Sanding_Marks_Rupes_005.jpg




No Orange Peel but also no sanding marks and no holograms or haze...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2072/Removing_1500_Sanding_Marks_Rupes_006.jpg




Orange Peel

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2072/Removing_1500_Sanding_Marks_Rupes_007.jpg



No Orange Peel but also no sanding marks and no holograms or haze...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2072/Removing_1500_Sanding_Marks_Rupes_008.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2072/Removing_1500_Sanding_Marks_Rupes_009.jpg



The sanding marks removed very easy without having to use a rotary buffer or wool pad which while it would likely work faster, the rotary buffer and the wool pad would have left holograms behind.



:)

[Mike Phillips]

The owner of PBMG, Max, is having Wayne Carini resto-rod his 1966 Mustang Covertible and it will be wetsanded, cut and buffed. This one...

1966 Mustang - Last Chance to Dance Extreme Makeover! (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/pictures-autogeek-s-car-week/63785-1966-mustang-last-chance-dance-extreme-makeover.html)

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1851/Maxs_New_1965_Mustang_038.jpg



It will also be here for Detail Fest this coming March.

:xyxthumbs:

[Mike Phillips]

If there is no orange peel do you still want to do it?



No. Paint is thin.






If he gets it done what are some questions to ask so we know what he is doing?



I'd start by asking if the person hangs out on a forum like this one because detailers and ANYONE that works on paint knows more about what they're doing if they hang out on a forum like this than if they don't.


Most people,

Sand with cheap sanding paper
Compound with cheap compounds
Leave holograms in the paint because all they use is a rotary buffer

Then they,

Leave sanding makrs behind because they don't get them all out. These will be

Tracers if they are hand sanding
Pitgtails if they are machine sanding

Then "you" will have to re-buff the car to remove both the holograms and the sanding marks.

And keep in mind, all of these things remove paint.

Wetsanding
Comounding
Polishing

You want to see a car sanded using the best? And see what it looks like to do each step the right way from start to finish?

Watch this... I did not skimp at a single step and the car left with a show car finish.



How to wet sand a car - Time Lapse Video (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/70997-how-wet-sand-car-video.html)


Back in March of this year, (2013), I did a complete wet sand, cut, polish and even machine waxed a 1964 Chevrolet Malibu and while doing this project, Yancy set the GoPro camera up to take a picture every minute.

It's been in queue for editing since then but I'm happy to announce it's now been edited and uploaded to our YouTube Channel.




How to wet sand a car




How to wet sand a car




Here's the steps I followed...

Covered windshield using the Beach Towel Tip. (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tricks-tips-techniques/30894-beach-towel-tip.html)

Covered interior and convertible top with Eco-friendly drop cloth.

Removed easy to access chrome emblems and script.

Wiped entire car down with Wurth Clean-Solve per what I wrote in post #5 here (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wet-sanding-cutting-buffing/25915-dampsanding-tools-tips-techniques-mike-phillips.html#post324421).

Taped-off all edges and raised body lines using 3M Blue Vinyl Tape. Tape-off video here (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-car-garage-how-videos/48329-video-how-tape-off-car-trim-before-machine-polishing.html).


Machine sanded all body panels using a 2-step system

First sanding step: I used 3M Trizact #3000 Grit Discs. I used 3" discs for thin panels and around edges and body lines. Used the 6" discs for the major flat sections of each panel.

Second sanding step: I used 3M Trizact #5000 Grit Discs. I used 3" discs for thin panels and around edges and body lines. Used the 6" discs for the major flat sections of each panel.


Removed all sanding marks.
For this I used the new Meguiar's M100 Pro Speed Compound with a LC Wool Cutting pad on the Flex PE14. At the time I did this project back in March of 2013 this compound had just been introduced to the market, so it was a new compound and I think this is the first car completely sanded and compounded and caught on video using M100 Pro Speed Compound. Speed on the Flex PE14 = 1000 RPM.



Removed any swirls left by the wool pad and the compounding step.
For this I used Meguiar's M205, the follow-up polish for M100 with a 6.5" Lake Country Flat Foam Polishing Pad on the Flex PE14. Speed on the Flex PE14 = 1000 RPM


Finish Polished to maximize gloss and ensure no holograms
After using the rotary buffer with the M205 I re-polished every square inch of paint using Pinnacle Advanced Finishing Polish with a 5.5" Lake Country Foam Flat Finishing Pad on the Porter Cable 7424XP on the 6.0 speed setting.


Machine Waxed
After wiping all the finishing polish off I machine applied Pinnacle Souveran Paste Wax using the Porter Cable 7424XP with a 5.5" Lake Country Foam Waxing Pad on the 4-5 speed setting.

Removed Wax
I removed the wax wearing microfiber gloves and using super soft rolled edge microfiber towels.




Here's everything I used from start to finish...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1738/64_Malibu_Show_Car_Makeover_027.jpg



All tools, pads and products can be had on Autogeek.net or call Customer Care at,

1-800-869-3011

[Mike Phillips]

Here's the before and after pictures...


It was cloudy the day Mike Gelter brought his 1964 Chevy Chevelle Malibu Convertible to Autogeek but I did take a few before pictures to show the current condition of the paint.

Before

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1738/64_Malibu_Show_Car_Makeover_001.jpg


Under the cloudy sky you can see the orange peel, it actually looks worse under fluorescents and if I can find the "before" pictures I took under the florescent lights in the studio I'll add them to this thread...
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1738/64_Malibu_Show_Car_Makeover_002.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1738/64_Malibu_Show_Car_Makeover_003.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1738/64_Malibu_Show_Car_Makeover_004.jpg


IF you look closely you can see dieback in the paint, that's where the paint shrinks back into the prep sanding marks in the primer. These all sanded and buffed out.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1738/64_Malibu_Show_Car_Makeover_005.jpg




After

Here's the beauty shots. I machine sanded twice, compound with wool and rotary once, polished with rotary and foam once, polished with a DA polisher once and then machine applied Pinnacle Souveran Paste Wax.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1738/64_Malibu_Show_Car_Makeover_006.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1738/64_Malibu_Show_Car_Makeover_007.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1738/64_Malibu_Show_Car_Makeover_008.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1738/64_Malibu_Show_Car_Makeover_009.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1738/64_Malibu_Show_Car_Makeover_010.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1738/64_Malibu_Show_Car_Makeover_011.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1738/64_Malibu_Show_Car_Makeover_012.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1738/64_Malibu_Show_Car_Makeover_013.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1738/64_Malibu_Show_Car_Makeover_014.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1738/64_Malibu_Show_Car_Makeover_016.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1738/64_Malibu_Show_Car_Makeover_017.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1738/64_Malibu_Show_Car_Makeover_018.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1738/64_Malibu_Show_Car_Makeover_019.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1738/64_Malibu_Show_Car_Makeover_020.jpg



Here's Mike the owner driving the car out of the garage...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1738/64_Malibu_Show_Car_Makeover_021.jpg


The sun shots....

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1738/64_Malibu_Show_Car_Makeover_022.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1738/64_Malibu_Show_Car_Makeover_023.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1738/64_Malibu_Show_Car_Makeover_024.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1738/64_Malibu_Show_Car_Makeover_025.jpg


:dblthumb2:

[Mike Phillips]

I think it does and I am pretty sure! I just don't want him wasting his money if thee is no need to. How much is a good wet sand




I've been posting to forums as long as anyone and most of what I've read in my life about getting a car wetsanded, cut and buffed turns out to be a horror story unless you get a qualified professional that either,


Hangs out on a forum like this.


Has been to a detailing class where "proper" techniques are taught using "up to date" sanding and buffing tools and products.


Otherwise the guy doing the work only knows what he taught himself. That's just how things work.


Take a look at this thread, this is an example of hiring a guy that says he knows what he's doing to paint and then wetsand, cut and buff a car.


Pictures: Wetsand, Cut & Buff 1971 Fury Police Car! (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/pictures-autogeek-s-car-week/64453-pictures-wetsand-cut-buff-1971-fury-police-car.html)




Here's how the paint looked after getting the car back from the painter, also the guy doing the sanding and buffing.

Not pretty....


Before
Here's what the car looked like when it arrived... this is where we started from by machine sanding to remove the other guys tracers and holograms as well as orange peel...
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1876/1971_Plymouth_Fury_Police_013.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1876/1971_Plymouth_Fury_Police_014.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1876/1971_Plymouth_Fury_Police_015.jpg



We, that is my local guys and myself, fixed it here at Autogeek by REDOING the job the right way using the right sanding tools, compounds, buffing pads and tools.




http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1876/1971_Plymouth_Fury_Police_002.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1876/1971_Plymouth_Fury_Police_003.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1876/1971_Plymouth_Fury_Police_004.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1876/1971_Plymouth_Fury_Police_005.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1876/1971_Plymouth_Fury_Police_006.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1876/1971_Plymouth_Fury_Police_007.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1876/1971_Plymouth_Fury_Police_008.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1876/1971_Plymouth_Fury_Police_009.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1876/1971_Plymouth_Fury_Police_010.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1876/1971_Plymouth_Fury_Police_011.jpg


Ivan approves!

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1876/1971_Plymouth_Fury_Police_012.jpg


:buffing: