Porter or Griots garage? pad types?

[xxnonamexx]

I am leaning towards the Griots garage 3rd generation buffer along with the foam pands and microfiber bonnets. What is the difference between The porter cable buffer? What pads do you prefer for the basics light scratches, applying wax, polishing etc. Chemical guys go with the porter cable [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTKMHiZ8lOQ]Chevy Volt - How To Protect Your New Car - Chemical Guys Wet Mirror Finish JetSeal109 Protection - YouTube[/video]

[bsmith0404]

I can't speak for the GG since I don't have one and have never used one. Maybe someone else can chime in on the point I'm about to make. I have a PC and a Flex. I love both, but the one thing that stands out to me is that the Flex has a flat back that allows me to set it down with the pad up and not worry about it rolling and the pad picking up something. The PC is rounded and constantly rolls over to it's side resting on the edge of the pad when I set it down. I know it's a minor detail, but performance wise I think all are good, it's the little things that make a difference.

[ski2]

Can't beat the Griots for a standard DA--has more power than the PC which you'll come to appreciate and it has a lifetime warranty. Equip it with a 5" backing plate and 5.5" FLAT pads and you'll be good to go.

[bsmith0404]

Can't beat the Griots for a standard DA--has more power than the PC which you'll come to appreciate and it has a lifetime warranty. Equip it with a 5" backing plate and 5.5" FLAT pads and you'll be good to go.

I'm just curious about something, I don't have a frame of reference to go by since I have a Flex and a PC, two very different machines in terms of how they opperate. I hear a lot of people talk about power, especially with the GG. Since DA's operate on centifugal force and to much pressure will stop the pad from spinning (not the machine), where does the difference of "power" come to play?

As for pads, it's all personal preference, but the general theme is 5.5". As for design, some swear by one, another will tell you something different. All I can say is try a couple of the more popular ones and draw your own conclusions.

[xxnonamexx]

Does Griots come with a backing plate?

[parttimer]

Gg comes stock with a 6" plate. The extra power helps keep the pad rotating under pressure. The lesser powered pc stops more easily since the motor can't power through pressure.

Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk 2

[swanicyouth]

CGs goes with the PC because the GG6 is made by their competition: Griots Garage. Other companies "go with" a certain polisher because of where it's made, etc... But, if you want the BEST DA for about a hundred and some dollars, the GG6 is that. It's has what I believe to be the MOST POWERFUL motor of any commonly available free spinning DA at ANY PRICE. The GG6 has the power to do almost anything with the correct accessories. The PC is still good, but the GG6 is better.

Because the motor is powerful, the slower speeds tend to be more usable. I don't know of any benefit the PC has over the GG6.

[RobertJ34]

I have a GC6, I love it. Used it on my car just two weeks ago on a full detail, a cut, polish and seal. Works perfect--for the price you cant beat it.
I used it with the 6'' plate and 6.5" pads, people love the 5 plate with 5.5" pads from what I have been reading but I had no issues.

[bsmith0404]

I'm still not following the "power" debate. The pad spin is created by motor spin, as long as the motor is spinning the pad will continue to spin until the friction between the paint and pad exceeds the friction between the motor and pad. You can stop the pad without stopping the motor or the even bogging it down. The only way to change the amount of pressure it takes to stop the pad is to reduce the friction between the paint and pad (smaller pad) or increase the friction between the motor and pad (increased speed). Snowmobile clutches work on a similar theory and can be adjusted with weights to allow the clucth to engage or disengage at different times. If you are telling me the GG has a different set up that allows it to spin with more friction between paint and pad than other DA's, I'll go with that, but I cannot find anything in data that supports that. I can't agree with "it has a more powerful motor" theory because the pad on my PC stops well before the motor boggs down, power has never been an issue.

Has there ever been a comparison of how much presure it takes to stop the pad from one DA to another? This would be a better point than just assuming it can power through because it has a bigger motor

I'm not saying the GG is not a good tool, not even trying to say that it's not better than the PC. My only point is to stick to why one is better than the other in performance not because it has a bigger motor. I can put a bigger motor in a car all day, but if the power exceeds the tires ability to grip the pavement, I'll never get the benefits of the power (at least of the line). Again, my ONLY complaint with my PC is the round body, power has never been an issue. The GG looks like an outstanding tool and has an excellent warranty. I think anyone purchasing either tool would be happy.

It would be nice to find someplace that has both so you can actually hold them in your hand, feel the balance and weight and go with what feels the best/most comfortable to you. You hold them for a long time while working, ergonomics are very important. I do like the look of the grip over the head on the GG.

[Goodylax]

No experience yet, but after researching a bit, decided to have my brother grab me a PC for Christmas.
Why?
Good price, proven over the years, and SAFE. Mike Phillips notes that when the pad stops due to bearing down, this prevents over pressure, damage and strike through.

I think I'll start with the PC :dblthumb2:

[AutowerxDetailing]

I own: PCXP, HF DA, Flex 3401 VRG, Dewalt 849X. I have also used: GG6, Rupes 21 (w/ wash mod), HD DA

Comparing PCXP to GG6:


GG6 has more power. It is evident when you use the machine; however, I don't think this is always desirable. I'm not always using my machine on speed 6.



GG6 seemed a little smoother, especially at higher speed.



I hated the power switch on the GG6. It was very difficult to switch on/off with one hand. My PC is very easy to control with one hand operation and the on/off switch is stable yet easy to operate.


I think either way you will be satisfied. :props:

[swanicyouth]

I'm still not following the "power" debate. The pad spin is created by motor spin, as long as the motor is spinning the pad will continue to spin until the friction between the paint and pad exceeds the friction between the motor and pad. You can stop the pad without stopping the motor or the even bogging it down. The only way to change the amount of pressure it takes to stop the pad is to reduce the friction between the paint and pad (smaller pad) or increase the friction between the motor and pad (increased speed). Snowmobile clutches work on a similar theory and can be adjusted with weights to allow the clucth to engage or disengage at different times. If you are telling me the GG has a different set up that allows it to spin with more friction between paint and pad than other DA's, I'll go with that, but I cannot find anything in data that supports that. I can't agree with "it has a more powerful motor" theory because the pad on my PC stops well before the motor boggs down, power has never been an issue.

Has there ever been a comparison of how much presure it takes to stop the pad from one DA to another? This would be a better point than just assuming it can power through because it has a bigger motor

I'm not saying the GG is not a good tool, not even trying to say that it's not better than the PC. My only point is to stick to why one is better than the other in performance not because it has a bigger motor. I can put a bigger motor in a car all day, but if the power exceeds the tires ability to grip the pavement, I'll never get the benefits of the power (at least of the line). Again, my ONLY complaint with my PC is the round body, power has never been an issue. The GG looks like an outstanding tool and has an excellent warranty. I think anyone purchasing either tool would be happy.

It would be nice to find someplace that has both so you can actually hold them in your hand, feel the balance and weight and go with what feels the best/most comfortable to you. You hold them for a long time while working, ergonomics are very important. I do like the look of the grip over the head on the GG.


I don't think there is a power debate. I have both tools and the GG6 is MUCH more powerful than a PC. When I say "powerful" I'm talking about the ability to spin a large pad (6.5") on a complex panel. I can't imagine anyone who has used both tools didn't notice the difference. Someone can dissect all the minutiae on how the machines work, friction, and there mechanisms, etc... But to say "power doesn't matter" or "output power can't be determined so it's irrelevant" - just doesn't make sense to me. You can use the tools and FEEL the power difference first hand. Many people on this forum have.

So, I think the discussion in the past was that input power means nothing. Zero. Zip. Gives no indication of anything. So I guess it's just a huge coincidence that the LEAST POWERFUL DA commonly sold here (the Griots 3") is rated (IIR?) at 240w / 2 amps. While the most powerful free spinning DA is the GG6 is rates at 850w / 7amps.

The high power rating of the GG6 is even part of the sales copy on AutoGeek:

"Griot’s Garage 6 Inch Random Orbital Polisher has established a reputation among detailers and enthusiasts for having the ability to remove just about any paint imperfection imaginable including water spots, swirls, oxidation and even light scratches! This is largely due in part to its powerful 7 amp motor that packs a whopping 850 watts of paint-polishing power. The smooth, powerful motor delivers low-end torque and a wide, 5/16” diameter orbit ensures uniform material removal."

So, if input "power" doesn't matter at all, it seems we are being mislead by someone...

I've never heard the motor on any free spinning DA "stop". So, to say because the motor keeps spinning (when the pad stops) that power doesn't matter, would mean all free spinning machines would work the same - because there isn't a mechanical connection from the motor to the pad. You should be able to put the largest pad on the little tiny 3" Griot"s polisher and it would work fine. Because that motor won't stop spinning either - but the pad will easily. Why do you think there has been so much criticism of that machine? No power.

I'm not sure. I thought it was common knowledge. I'm not talking about correction power - that's infinitely variable. I'm not saying any machine is "no good" or bad, I'm talking about one specificity thing: the power of the machine to keep the pad spinning on a complex or curved panel. I have the Rupes 15 as well and the GG6 will keep the pad spinning better on a complex panel better than that as well. Numerous people have commented on the Rupes 15/21 stalling on a complex or curved panels.

[Mike Phillips]

Does Griots come with a backing plate?

Yes but it's 6" in diameter so you can't use 5.5" pads.

I have an article on this....



5 inch Backing Plates on Meguiar's, Griot's and Porter Cable DA Polishers (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-tools-accessories/48668-5-inch-backing-plates-meguiar-s-griot-s-porter-cable-da-polishers.html)


Here's some pictures showing the size of different backing plates on the popular Meguiar's Griot's and Porter Cable DA Polishers.

The Griot's and Meguiar's DA Polishers come with 6" backing plates and the Porter Cable by itself does not come with a backing plate.

If you want to use 5.5" foam pads on any of these tools you'll need to remember to order a separate backing plate when your order your polishers.


From left to right...

Factory Griot's 6" BP, Lake Country 5" BP, Meguiar's 5" BP and 5" Black Heavy Duty BP
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1423/5inchbackingpatesonDAPs001.jpg


5" Lake Country held against 6" Griot's Garage Backing Plate for size reference
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1423/5inchbackingpatesonDAPs002.jpg


5" Lake Country Backing Plate on 6" Griot's Backing Plate for size reference
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1423/5inchbackingpatesonDAPs003.jpg


Griot's measures just under 6"
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1423/5inchbackingpatesonDAPs004.jpg


Griot's measures approximately 5 3/4"
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1423/5inchbackingpatesonDAPs005.jpg


Lake Country measures just under 5"
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1423/5inchbackingpatesonDAPs006.jpg


Meguiar's W67DA measures just under 5"
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1423/5inchbackingpatesonDAPs007.jpg


Heavy Duty Black DA Backing plate measures just under 5"
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1423/5inchbackingpatesonDAPs008.jpg


Griot's 6" backing plate too large to safely use with 5.5" foam buffing pads
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1423/5inchbackingpatesonDAPs009.jpg


Backing plate overhangs past foam pad
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1423/5inchbackingpatesonDAPs010.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1423/5inchbackingpatesonDAPs011.jpg



See the little rubber cap?
It holds the compression washer on the threaded stud and also protects the threads when the backing plate is not in use. Do not loose it and if you do you can simply wrap some tape around the threads while backing plate is in storage.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1423/5inchbackingpatesonDAPs012.jpg


This is a Compression Washer - Don't lose it and don't use any backing plate without it.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1423/5inchbackingpatesonDAPs013.jpg



Meguiar's G110v2 comes with the W68DA Backing plate, it's too large to safely use with a 5.5" foam buffing pad.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1423/5inchbackingpatesonDAPs015.jpg


Meguiar's W67DA Backing plate placed on top of the W68DA Backing plate for size reference
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1423/5inchbackingpatesonDAPs016.jpg


With a 5.5" foam buffing pad attached you can see the overhang of the W68DA Backing Plate
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1423/5inchbackingpatesonDAPs017.jpg


The Meguiar's W68DA Backing plate measures just under 6" in diameter
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1423/5inchbackingpatesonDAPs018.jpg


From left to right...

Griot's Garage 6" Backing Plate, Meguiar's W68DA Backing Plate and Meguiar's W67DA Backing Plate
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1423/5inchbackingpatesonDAPs019.jpg




3 popular DA Polishers ready to rock and roll with 5" backing plates and 5.5" buffing pads...
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1423/5inchbackingpatesonDAPs014.jpg


On Autogeek.net


The below backing plates will fit the Griot's, Meguiar's and Porter Cable DA Polishers

Lake Country 5" DA Backing Plate (http://www.autogeek.net/lc43125.html)

Meguiars W67DA G110 DA Polisher 5 inch Backing Plate (http://www.autogeek.net/meguiars-w67da-5-inch-backing-plate.html)

The Black Dual Action 5 Inch HD Backing Plate (http://www.autogeek.net/damvp5.html)




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