Quick advice

[kdubski]

Hopefully some of you recognize my posts lately, I'm still figuring out a pricing guideline based on the great feedback I've received from you guys, and I'm just wondering if this is reasonable.

Have a 2005 Mercedes E55 AMG (Black) lined up over thanksgiving break. Owner told me it has "some swirls" that need to be buffed.
Quoted him based on:
-wash and wax, (Clay included since followed by a polish)
-One step polish w/ pc7424 on a 5"
-seal with megs m21, and top with nattys blue for depth and gloss (since black).

$120 for wash/wax, and $35/40 an hour for about 3-4 hours with the porter cable.
Estimating $240-260 total.


Now another quick question, what polish would you guys expect to take out some light swirling. I'm thinking of using my newly ordered Menzerna PF2500 ( A little antsy to try on a high end car). If not my only other polish is m205 so stuck between the two.
Sorry for being annoying just really trying to nail these job well so I don't cost or lose myself time/money as I have been doing. Thanks in advance!

[96z28]

I only have experience with M205, but I think you should do a test spot with each one and let your own eye choose which one will suit your needs best. M205 is a great polish but depending on the paint I wouldn't expect it to remove swirls if the paint is hard.

[FPEvo]

Well it has the ceramic clear you maybe need something more aggressive than both of those. Maybe try some FG400 or Carpro Fixer on an MF Finishing pad.

[kdubski]

So worst comes to worst I may just overnight some FG400 since the job is next week. How does FG400 compare to m105 since both are compounds?

[Rsurfer]

So worst comes to worst I may just overnight some FG400 since the job is next week. How does FG400 compare to m105 since both are compounds?
FG400 has a longer work time (DAT) and less dusting than 105. You might not finish down with FG400 on black and will need 4500 to finish down.

[stilltipping3]

The menzerna 2500 IS good stuff. It will do the job but may need an xtra pass or so. Take ur time. It also finishes very well. 250 is a deal if u ask me. I charge $475 for what u are doing and $600 now if they want another polish like 4000 after that. This comes with KSG and a wax if I have time. Depends on what parts of the car they want me to focus on and how long that takes me. I do take longer that 3-4 hrs though. Way longer!!

205 is good for swirls as well and so is Pinnacle SWR. U can always bump up the pad if u need to and then go down with the same polish and another softer pad.

[Scott@IncrediblyDetailed]

Does that price include interior work? I'd say a little over 300 for that work on black paint. Fg400 with s polishing pad might be your ticket just do a test spot and see how it finishes. If not just use a polish that will finish the best you can while removing the move defects. You might need to try 3-4 products.

[kdubski]

Does that price include interior work? I'd say a little over 300 for that work on black paint. Fg400 with s polishing pad might be your ticket just do a test spot and see how it finishes. If not just use a polish that will finish the best you can while removing the move defects. You might need to try 3-4 products.

Just a quick vac, wipe down, and dusting of crevices. The core of this job is the swirl removal. My budget for this quarter doesn't allow me to purchase anymore polishes because I paid for school a few weeks ago and on top of that I just purchased a foam lance, a commercial pressure washer, upgraded to a 5" pad set from 6.5", and restocked in gallon sizes on about 4 chemicals. That being said I'm stuck with m105, m205, and pf2500. I should have done my research before but its not until recently have I been getting these swirl concerned jobs. Happy I got them though I'll work up experience and a reputation as well as learn pricing cause no way do I want to be losing out on money.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using AG Online

[kdubski]

The menzerna 2500 IS good stuff. It will do the job but may need an xtra pass or so. Take ur time. It also finishes very well. 250 is a deal if u ask me. I charge $475 for what u are doing and $600 now if they want another polish like 4000 after that. This comes with KSG and a wax if I have time. Depends on what parts of the car they want me to focus on and how long that takes me. I do take longer that 3-4 hrs though. Way longer!!

205 is good for swirls as well and so is Pinnacle SWR. U can always bump up the pad if u need to and then go down with the same polish and another softer pad.

Hey only gave the kid a ballpark number for now and warned him if he has a ceramic clear coat it'll take way longer! I'm basing that number off a one step that I performed on a repainted Nissan altima. I could get 80% correction with just a few passes over an area. I realized an amg Mercedes will not be this easy. I hope to one day be in your position sir. But really just concerned about being able to abrade that ceramic clear.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using AG Online

[jpegs13]

Be careful with the cerami-clear

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/47152-ceramiclear-paints-careful.html

[Vegas Transplant]

...Owner told me it has "some swirls" that need to be buffed.



...I'm basing that number off a one step that I performed on a repainted Nissan altima.

"Warning!!!... Will Robinson!!!"

:nomore:

[Mike Phillips]

$120 for wash/wax, and $35/40 an hour for about 3-4 hours with the porter cable.
Estimating $240-260 total.



To me, that actually sounds pretty good especially if you're still on the new side of this business.

It's going to take all of the 3-4 hours with the PC to go around the car one time and buff each panel out equally. Then figure time to seal it.

What I always tell people is this,

"You can't rush quality"


By this I mean, I can't move the polisher faster over the paint just to get the job done faster and still get good results. The polisher must be moved slowly over the paint to give the combination of the pad, action of the tool and the abrasive technology time to do it's work.

Moving the polisher over the paint quickly is called skimming and about all that will do is remove the shallowest of swirls.

Moving a polisher over the paint quickly is also called the Wild Man Technique because you look like a wild man with a buffer going ape on someone's car.

This is what hack detailers do.

If you can explain that to someone and even demonstrate it on a hood and combine that with also explaining to them how thin the clear coat paint is on their car, for most people it will help them to fully understand why it takes at least 3-4 hours to polish each panel.



Factory clearcoat paints are thin. Typically thinner than a 3M Post-it Note.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/715/Clearcoat_Paints_Are_Thin_01.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/715/Clearcoat_Paints_Are_Thin_02.jpg


So tick to your price it's more than fair.


I'd recommend printing out and using or at least reading through my VIF forum.

Mike Phillips VIF or Vehicle Inspection Form (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/62084-mike-phillips-vif-vehicle-inspection-form.html)


I have a lot of people that have e-mailed me and also sent me PM's to get a copy of my VIF form for their detailing business. This form is vitally important and if you're detailing cars for money, either part-time, full-time or as a hobby then you should not touch the car until this form is filled out and signed by your customer.

I obtained the original version of this form years ago from my long-time friend and professional detailer, Lenny House. I tweaked it with my own customizations to make his form work better for me. I've also asked for input from my good friends and professional detailers, Renny Doyle, Joe Fernandez and Robert Diterlizzi.


Living Document
This form will be a living document, that is... I expect and encourage all our forum members to get a copy, use it and if you find a way to improve it for the benefit of all of us then your improvements will be added and the official form updated. I consider myself a perpetual student in that I'm always learning and always open to new ideas, technology, pads, products etc. This also means I'm always open to feedback to improve this form to continually make it the best it can be.

Plus, your name will be added as a contributor to the form. Below I will maintain current Screen Shots of the form as it evolves.


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1805/Vehicle_Inspection_Form_001.jpg



Packages Page
You should have a package for every customer, every car and every budget. Don't spend your customers money for them, let them decide the level of perfection they want for their car. I highly recommend doing your best to educate your customer on the paint on their car and what you can do for it but also, don't oversell customers. By this I mean, don't put a show car finish on a daily driver commuter car. While this might be your passion it's a disservice to both you and your customer. I've included a link to an article I wrote on this topic down the page a ways, if you have not read it yet, take a moment to do so.

On this page you can edit the words Package 1, Package 2 and Package 3 with whatever terms you prefer, for example, Bronze, Silver, Gold. etc. You can and should also insert the hourly charge for what you currently charge in your business.

Products, Pads, Tools and Coatings Tables - Optional
The two tables for information on products, pads, and tools you use can simply be deleted if you don't want to get that deep with your customers. I included this as an option for the purposes of educating your customer to earn their trust, show that you're knowledgeable about your craft and to help you increase your hourly prices. By education your customers you demonstrate you're knowledgeable about your trade while at the same time by default you show-up any competitors that don't want to share what products, pads and tools they use.

Using this type of information is completely up to you.
Quality products, pads and tools all have a cost associated with them that you have to build into your hourly rate. The higher the quality product you use the more you need to charge or the less profit you will make. Most of your customers won't know that a quality foam pad cost more than a cheap, worn out wool pad and here's a way to to educate them. People ask me how I get my prices so high and there's a number of things a person has to do but one of them is to educate your customer how and why the work you do is different than the detailing business down the road that charges $39.99

The third table on this page is to up-sell your customer to a coating. Coatings not only have a higher "cost" price but they also take more and special prep work in order to apply them plus the skill, knowledge and talent to apply them correctly. You need to make sure you're charing for the application of a coating. In the table below you can custom edit it to showcase which coating or coatings you offer and this opens this section of this form opens the door for you to present your customer with this option.

Again, since this is a Microsoft Word Document, you can simply modify or delete the second and third tables and when you do this the "Terms" information will move up under your "packages table".

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1805/Vehicle_Inspection_Form_002.jpg




Terms and Authorization for work
The below is the section that spells out the agreement for services rendered and the customer's signature of approval to do the work. Do not "touch" anyone's car until the above inspection form is filled out with the customer and the customer signs and dates the form.


Referral Request
At the very bottom of this page is a call-out box asking for referrals to grow your business. I find most people tend to be shy about asking their customers for referrals, so this call-out box is to both remind you and to help you to ask for referrals.


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1805/Vehicle_Inspection_Form_003.jpg



At this point in the form you can choose to only print out the above when selecting how many pages to print from your printer options.


Edit the form to fill in for the product you use and your hourly rate. Go over it with the customer when the car arrives.

It's a good idea to have a package for every budget and every car. What you describe doing to this guys car is definitely in Package 2 above.







Now another quick question, what polish would you guys expect to take out some light swirling. I'm thinking of using my newly ordered Menzerna PF2500 ( A little antsy to try on a high end car).
If not my only other polish is M205 so stuck between the two.




Like others said, test the Menzerna PF 2500 first with a polishing pad. This is a very good one-step correction polish. With good technique it will remove the majority of the swirls and scratches leaving behind only the RIDS and if this is a daily driver that should be your goal.

The PF2500 will offer a little more correction ability than the M205. PF2500 is a fine to medium cut polish while the M205 is definitely a fine cut polish.

BOTH ARE INCREDIBLY SAFE

So I wouldn't be worried about using either with a PC on this customer's car.





Sorry for being annoying just really trying to nail these job well so I don't cost or lose myself time/money as I have been doing.



And asking questions on this forum is the best thing you can do to nail down win/win business. That is you win and your customer wins.

:xyxthumbs:

[kdubski]

Like others said, test the Menzerna PF 2500 first with a polishing pad. This is a very good one-step correction polish. With good technique it will remove the majority of the swirls and scratches leaving behind only the RIDS and if this is a daily driver that should be your goal.

The PF2500 will offer a little more correction ability than the M205. PF2500 is a fine to medium cut polish while the M205 is definitely a fine cut polish.

BOTH ARE INCREDIBLY SAFE

So I wouldn't be worried about using either with a PC on this customer's car.




Mike thank you for the thorough reply! You nailed many question's that I've been wondering about without even researching but you just helped me bring my business to another level!

Aside from that, I have read the Ceramic Clearcoat post you have wrote and I understand the risk, now that you have confirmed my selected tools are safe and effective, what would you round for a time estimate for this job.

Since this is a Mercedes Benz with ceramic clearcoat, I think it'll be a little more time consuming than 4 hours. What is a realistic estimate for JUST the correction stage? Also, this is a FOR SALE PREP, so I may need to put a little more effort in. But as of now price stands sub $300 because of the obvious time estimate.

You mention to use a POLISHING pad. I just placed an order that comes in the day before the job with my 5" LC Pad upgrade from my current 6.5" pads. PROBLEM is your staff called me and said they're out of Orange pads and I have to wait 7-10 days after they are restocked. I have really old and worn 6.5" orange pads that I can use but would they be enough for the cutting power needed on a ceramic clear?

[kdubski]

So to just gauge a realistic time estimate, what do some of you veterans estimate a job with these conditions should last? (Particularly the buffing because I have my other steps figured out)

[kdubski]

"Warning!!!... Will Robinson!!!"

:nomore:
I take it I'm in for a wild ride. What would you estimate sir for something like this. I want to be as precise I can be so the whole thing doesn't go costing over $400 when hours are added up!