Rotary and questions within that topic...

[KJW Detailing]

At work i use a Dewalt rotary buffer and its nice, and knowing that i am in the process of starting my own detailing business, i have a few questions about the use of the rotary and somethings i've seen at work...

Now i know that i can get to far talking about work b/4 i am told that this is wrong and that is wrong (trust me i know haha)...but nothing i can do since i am the low man on a crazy long totum pole at the dealership...i wish we used different pads, i wish we had a larger spectrum of pads, i wish i had more time to work on a detail...blah blah blah the list goes on...

The one thing i am stuck on when it comes to the rotary is the holligrams it creates, as well as general paint corrections...

(Example) the other day i did a used car detail (05' Ford Mustang GT - White)...anyway, i noticed that outside the car was showing alot of swirls, so i washed, clayed, ,and then brought out the rotary...now here is where the problems begin at work...being that we only have a wool, yellow, and green pads it doesn't really allow you the ability to start somewhere and work down...so i used a green pad, swirl remover (light) and a glaze...while the car was inside i could tell that i was removing the swirls and the paint was wetter and more reflective...but when i brought it outside, the swirls i though were gone were only lightened somewhat...i know that i could have used a harder swirl remover but again we dont have that general progression of compounds...we have a ton of glazes, a swirl remover, and heavy cutting compounds...

Knowing that i am working on my own detailing business i want to make sure that i have the products needed to do the job right...im not looking for reccommendations on a rotary, pads, or compounds...rather i am trying to figure out...

What can i do at work to better the situation?

also, i notice that many times the cars have those awful holigrams all over...this is what i am truly trying to learn more about...how are they caused and how can they be removed or prevented all together from the start?

o yea and if you were to reccommend a rotary, pads, and compound/polishes, what would it be? also with the compounds polishes, can we be more specific (like what within the brand)!

Thanks!

[scottgt]

check into the edge 2k pads...they are awesome pads

[richy]

The only thing I can think of to improve your work situation would be to use your own personal pad after showing your boss what the current stock won't do and then show him after with what the correct pad will do. Maybe then they'll change their mind. If they don't..too bad..they're paying you to do a job with the tools they supply..if they're ok with a poor quality job, so be it!!

[D]

I really like my Edge pads for the PC, so Id recommend those for the rotary also. As for compounds Id look into Optimum or Menzerna. The holograms are from incorrect polishing.

[KJW Detailing]

incorrect how so?

[BlackCoupe]

incorrect how so?

I watched a pro work on my car this weekend with rotary and wool pads--part of what he was doing was trying to train me in technique. First of all, there are different aggressiveness levels of wool pads, like there are different levels of foam pads--so you just can't say "I want a wool pad". Second, I was suprised at how little product he used. When he left, I was comfortable with being able to finish, hologram free (we had full sun to check the work), with a wool pad and ready for LSP. The product in the path of the rotary was dry, but the pad itself still was somewhat damp with product. I used to stop when the product in the path of the machine was dry, afraid that I was dry buffing. This led to using too much product, a soaked pad, and product that was not broken down all the way, which led to a poor result. Also, watching him work the pad to the edges, and around corners and curves was valuable experience for me. Hope this helps on your rotary journey. It may be worth finding someone in town who you can pay to spend some time with you. If you add up the cost of wasted product, pads, etc, and the frustration involved, it is money well spent.

FWIW--I have a Hitachi. He had a Makita. He tried the Hitachi,and I had to agree that the Makita had a much better triggering feel--starting from 0RPM and moving to 1500-1800, and then backing off, was much smoother. The Hitachi jumped and the Makita responded better--like a bad clutch versus a smooth clutch.

[Nica]

Very good information there BlackCoupe, I agree with the information that BlackCoupe mentioned here about wool pads. Wool pads are like foam pads, there are cutting pads, polishing pads, finishing pads and so on. Each one has a purpose, I'm no expert on the wool pads becuase I just started venturing in to them but I'll continue to use the wool pads because they give results fast and are easy to work with...well at least I found them to be easy. The cutting wool pads with a compound like Menzerna Intensive Polish or Optimum Compund or Optimum Hyper Compound will flaten out the paint. When I say flaten out the paint I mean that it will remove swilrs and most important any imperfection such as somewhat deep scratches...then if you use a finishing wool pad with lets say Optimum Compound or Menzerna 106FF or Menzerna 85RD you can get it LSP and even then you may still have to go with a finishing foam pad with lets say Menzerna Final Polish II or maybe Menzerna 106FF. The thing is that wool pads require steps and if you are getting paid to go through the steps then you go through the steps if not then that's where holograms come through. An experiance person with wool pads can use one wool pad and finish the vehicle LSP ready, it's amazing what can be done with wool pad and they claim it's all on technique. Well I hope this helps.

Now as for rotary, I own a Makita and a Metabo. They both can get the job done but I can't do 10 or 12hrs straight, non stop on the Makita. The way it sits on my hands just dosen't feel confortable. Now the Metabo on the other hand is a little lighter and I have gone 10 to 12hrs straight non stop polishing and it never bothers my hands. The Makita is good don't get me wrong it will get the job done but when it's time to do the door panels or the roof of a van lets say that's where you quickly see the advantages of the Metabo. That's just my opinion though...hope this helps a little too.

roadrunner, I'm curious. Are you the only person that feels the way you feel at work and the products you have to use? Like I said just curious that's all.

[KJW Detailing]

[quote=Nica
roadrunner, I'm curious. Are you the only person that feels the way you feel at work and the products you have to use? Like I said just curious that's all.[/quote]

i would probably say that yes i am the only person b/c the poeple i work with dont know any better...their are about 7 of us...2 have more experience then i do and the rest of them dont know how to use the rotary...and between the 3 us, i am the only person that is interested in improving the products and the results that we produce...even if no one listens...

you guys are all talking about wool pads...does anyone use foam pads when using the rotary? what are the benefits and/or disadvantages between the two types of pads?

[Nica]

I use foam pads all the time with my rotary. The one difference between wool pads and foam pads is the time it takes for correction and the other big thing is heat. Wool pads produce less heat compared to the foam pads...that's just from my experiance. Wool pads correct faster but I always finishing the paint with a foam pad for now. Once I get good with wool pads I'll probably stick to wool pads but for now wool for cutting and foam to finish off.

[TOGWT]

Pad Type Pros & Cons:
Wool: Pros-faster cutting leaves the surface cooler. Cons- leaves micro marring (buffer trails)

Foam: Pros- gentle (non-aggressive) light to moderate cutting Cons- heats paint quicker, leaves surface with a smooth finish ready for application of last step product (LSP)

Lake County (LC) also make a foam/wool pad that combines the best of both types.

Holograms (High Speed Rotary Polisher):
Are usually caused by using too much product on a HS Rotary Polisher pad, which will clog the foam pad causes it to bounce, too little product will result in too much heat, the diminishing abrasives breakdown before they can do there work, thereby causing holograms. Using a foam pad product that is too aggressive for the paint or using water/quick detailer on the pad will also make it more abrasive

[KJW Detailing]

so then basically their is a fine line between producing holograms and not producing holograms...

if holograms are created during the first pass with a harder compound and pad...will coming back over the car with a softer pad and a lighter polish take the holograms out?

[Sevenrd]

so then basically their is a fine line between producing holograms and not producing holograms...

if holograms are created during the first pass with a harder compound and pad...will coming back over the car with a softer pad and a lighter polish take the holograms out?
In my personal experience, yes, this has been the case.

When I use a more agressive pad/polish combo, I frequently get some holograms. But doing a final pass at moderate to slow RPM using a light/finish pad and a finishing polish clears them up.