Newbie Needs Advice on Products...

[Sue Esponte]

Hi Guys,

I'm a newbie here (this is my first post) but I've actually been lurking for a while. I'll apologize in advance for the long rambling post. There's a serious wealth of information on these forums. So, thanks for already answering so many of the questions I've had about various products in the past without even knowing it! :)

Anyway, I'm an amateur (hack?) detailer who, when possible, is happy to spend a full day detailing my cars. I tend to be pretty anal about how I keep them and find it therapeutic. My family, however, thinks I'm nuts and I always find that I'm pressed for time.

My typical wash scenario (for the exterior) is...

1. Wash.
2. Clay.
3. Polish (if needed).
4. Sealant (if needed).
5. Wax (carnuba).

I've used lots of different products (Zymol, P21S, Griots, Woflgang, Sonax, Meguiars, etc.) over the years but when it comes to wax the one I prefer most is Pinnacle Souveran paste. It's ease of application and removal is unparalleled in my experience and I've always been very happy with the results...oh, and the smell. :) Ease and speed are key features given time pressure -- but a good detailing requires time.

Some of my friends have been recommending that I try out some of the newer polymer based paint coating systems but I've always resisted for some reason...maybe fear of the unknown. Whatever. When I saw the recent announcement about Pinnacle Black Label the other day, however, I was very intrigued and started reading some of the different threads on it. How could anyone not be captured by the shine on that red Porsche 935?

I've also been looking around and re-thinking my methods because I've got a new car on order. It will have flat red paint (similar to that on the 935) and I'd love to get the color to shine like the car in that picture. Anyway, I've got some questions and would appreciate any suggestions. I'm sorry if any of my questions seem silly. I'm a relative newbie. :)

1. Carnuba vs. Coatings. I know there are separate camps on this but, ultimately, why do you choose one vs. the other? What are the pros and cons?

2. If I go with the Black Label products, I get that after washing I'd need to start with the "Surface Cleansing Polish" and then apply the coatings. But, there are Diamond Paint, Diamond Glass and Diamond Wheel coatings as well as a Diamond Surface coating? Do I need all 4 or is the Diamond Surface coating enough or do I just need the first 3?

3. I know it's probably too new to compare but a friend of mine was suggesting that I give CQuartz a try. I've heard of it but I'm not that familiar with the product. How does it compare to the Pinnacle system? Are they similar offerings? Also, there's a Gtechniq shop near me that I just found out about. I'd only heard of that product recently, too, ans I was thinking about taking a trip over to learn more about it. I'm sure there's a lot of information here about some of their products but is Gtechniq also another similar product?

4. Are there any other products that you think I should consider? Methods to change or reconsider? I'm sure there are tons of great products that I've never used or even heard of so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I've never had anyone detail my cars before -- I don't trust anyone plus I've never wanted to spend $1K to watch someone destroy my paint job. Reading these forums confirms some of my fears and also makes me feel a little guilty about some of the corners I've cut in the past just trying to get the car cleaned with limited time.

Anyway, I look forward to any suggestions or comments anyone has to offer.

Thanks in advance!
-Eric

[Bill1234]

sealents are good, I just dont like them. They last long, but dont really show all the work you put in to maintain the car. If you want a long lasting coating, get collinite 476s. Cquartz is popular on here as it does what its supposed to and its reasonable.

how do you wash, 2 bucket?

[Sue Esponte]

I switched to 2 buckets thanks to the forums.

What do you mean when you say they don't show off all of the work? Do you think the results aren't as bright, deep, or rich?

I've only really used sealant on one of my cars because its paint job is about 40yrs old. I tried Poor Boys Black Hole Glaze on that car and, WOW, did it bring the paint back to life. I covered it with a PB sealant based on some of the threads I've seen but I've never used either on my other cars. I probably should have been clearer on that in my original post.

Thanks,
-Eric

[Russ57]

Well I'm brand new to all of this so I don't know anything. Maybe someone will correct what I say and we will both learn something.

We all kinda know what wax is. A good wax has a depth and wet look nothing else gives. It just doesn't last very long. Not a problem if you don't mind the time and money involved with redoing it every month or two.

A sealant is a different technology altogether. It isn't going to have the look of a wax. It lasts longer though and probably offers more protection for a dialy driver that isn't pampered. Count on a good six months. You can put a wax over top of it if desired. So if the idea of polishing once, than using a very easy to apply product, and then only needing to wash and use a spray detailer for half a year appeals to you, then a sealant maybe right for you.

Coatings are the next step up in protection. Now we might be talking a year. Perhaps a great choice for those daily drivers that have to take a beating and can't be washed/waxed often.

If I had a black car that I kept in a garage, and the time to put into its upkeep, I'd go with a wax. If I had a lighter colored car that isn't going to show off depth not matter what I do, I'd consider a sealant topped with a wax if desired. I'd wash and use a spray wax/detailer weekly. I'd do the full monty every six months. If I had a truck that spent time on the construction site around dirt/dust/concrete and took a beating because there was no choice in the matter....then I'd certainly take a long hard look at some of the coatings....even if I had to pay another to apply them.

FWIW all my cars are daily drivers. I live on the coast in south florida. So my cars take a beating from the sun and salt air. I went with a sealant. Truth be told I did so because I knew nothing about the coatings....and because I'm not ready to make all the paint corrections I feel I should before I consider a coating.

[Romans5.8]

I think alot of the sealant vs wax thing is going to come down to how much work you want to put into it. Sealants are really popular with pro detailers because they might not even see the car again for a few months and who knows what that car is gonna go through.

Personally, I don't mind using wax. Every several weeks to throw down a coat? Easy peasy. Generally, I wash weekly, and wax monthly. I'm new to sealants though. Use it on my wifes bike for the first time since it just went into storage for the winter (I ride in the winter unless there is salt, snow, or ice on the ground, she doesn't ride if it's cold out though!). Sealed it, then used Meguiars Ultimate Liquid wax on top. I thought that combo gave her Red paint a gorgeous depth. Not as great as some of the really high end waxes perhaps but I thought it was pretty good. I'm also comfortable about the paint being protected for the next couple of months while the bike is stored. Got the tank full, fuel stabilized, battery on a tender, and dust cover on top. She'll stay that way until spring!

Coatings are a ball game I haven't played in yet. May consider it when I get my new car though.

[Sue Esponte]

Got it...makes a lot of sense. I live in the Northeast. Some of my cars literally see it all (everything from hot sun to snow and salt) and because of the cold it is very difficult to wash and wax as frequently as I'd like. I'll be detailing one of my cars this weekend but I know my my car detailing season is likely coming to an end very soon.

-Eric

[Sue Esponte]

Personally, I don't mind using wax.

I don't either...which is one of the reasons I never saw a need to switch...buuuut the idea of 'sealing' the car for the Winter when it's used and seeing harsher elements is very appealing.

If I were to apply a carnuba over a sealant would that restore some of the depth? Or, do you have to strip the sealant and build up a new base with carnuba?


Coatings are a ball game I haven't played in yet. May consider it when I get my new car though.

And, that's where I am right now. :) My friend was telling me he gets his wheels CQuartz'd annually by a local shop to better handle the rigors of the winter months. I was thinking about either trying it myself (although I think I've read that there are two kinds -- a commercial use version and what I'll call a 'home version'). I was also thinking about having the guys at GTechniq use their wheel product on one of my cars to give it a try.

-Eric

[hernandez.art13]

Just my opinion and my .02 cents.

I like how sealants look. From the ones i've tried.

I really like Meguiar's Ultimate wax plus you can buy it at your local auto parts store. I use mine for wheels.

For paint I use Menzerna Powerlock it has given my paint a lot of "pop" I haven't had a chance to top it with my Menzerna Colorlock. But I can only imagine it looks better.

I have Collinite 476s, while durable it really doesn't give the paint much gloss.

So IMO you can try Menzerna Powerlock and top it with Colorlock.

If you want to buy over the counter. Check out Meguiar's Ultimate wax and top it with a Meguiar carnauba wax.

So you can have the best of both worlds, having a sealant that last for a long time also makes washing your car easier.

Plus both Meguiar's and Menzerna are really easy to work with. Easier than Collinite 476s. Just my opinion

[Romans5.8]

Eric I'm a total newbie. I've used a sealant a grand total of one time. But, the process I used was to wash the bike, then do an IPA wipe to remove old wax, clay, then apply the sealant. Afterwards I applied a wax. Sure had a good looking depth and shine to me, similar to what I got before with just the carnauba wax. So take that for what it's worth! (Which isn't much!)

I snapped this pic after applying JUST Meguiars Ultimate Liquid Wax on my bike (Which is technically a sealant I think?). No Carnauba on top of this. Excuse the fun house mirror effect from the contours of the tank!

http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/6987/r7q4.jpg

So, hopefully that gives you an idea? I know it's not a great picture, but I think it'll give you an idea of what kind of gloss you can expect from a sealant. (It was similar to the DP sealant we used on the wifes bike too). I'll throw some Carnauba on top of that later and see how it looks!

This is a blue metallic / silver metallic two tone (silver not visible). If my bike acts like my wifes did with the DP/Ultimate/Carnauba combo (though I think the Ultimate wax on her bike was a 'wasted step'), then the metallic will be brought out when I put down the Carnauba. Right now, the paint is glossy, but the metal flake is not super visible. Though my bike does need a polish!

[hernandez.art13]

When I went to Meguiar's 101. They said that Meguiar's Ultimate Wax is in fact is a sealant, so you were right Romans :xyxthumbs:. But they named it that so everyday normal consumers (Muggles :D )don't get confused with the term Sealant.

If I recall correctly.

And expect a lot more gloss from Meguiar's Ultimate wax than Collinite 476s and it easier to use.

I'm just on the Menzerna bandwagon :)

[Sue Esponte]

Thanks for the advice and information everyone. I think I am going to hold off on the Black Series products for a bit...I don't know...the current sale looks decent. :)

-Eric

[wdmaccord]

For winter, my recommendation would be Collinite 845. That should last you 5-6 months. You could put a carnauba wax on top of that (probably want to wait 12-24 hours after the Coll 845). Then you could just re-up the carnauba every month or so. By spring you'll be ready for another polish/seal/wax.