whatever happens with the previous hack detailer?

[thebamboo23]

We all know what a hack detailer is and what they are capable of doing. A lot of times the guys on AGO are the ones to fix the problem for their customer, i.e. holograms, severe swirls, TOGW, etc.. :xyxthumbs:

With that being said, do you think the owners ever trace the hack detailer back down for anything? everyone here is always taking every precaution and then some to assure best care for the customers vehicle. especially insurance.. but im sure the hack detailer didnt have insurance since he had no idea what the proper procedure was for the detail.

im talking about the high end/classic cars that come with majjoorrr buffer trails, water etching, scratches, etc..

so again, do you think the owners go back to give the hack detailer some bad credit orrrrrrrrr? :rolleyes:

ive always wondered, i never herd of any follow up or anything

[Romans5.8]

Hmm. Interesting question! Wonder what people say.

I'd just as soon move on and vote with my feet. Of course, damage is another story. I had a tire place damage the suspension on my car once with their lift (and, of course, claiming it 'came in like that', with the shocks crumpled and dented by a lift). STILL fighting that one.

With what I know now, I'd be ticked if a detailer or dealer did that to my car. But before AGO, I didn't even notice the swirls and things on my car (most of which I probably put there.) So if I was going to a hack detailer, then went to a good one, it might be 'too late' to really follow up, you know?

Now I see it on car lots all the time and that's the worst. I saw a craigslist ad for a Corvette Convertible, black. In the grainy, low quality cellphone pictures they posted you could clearly see the buffer trails and the paint looked GRAY, not black! Some used car lot. Car would've looked better dirty. I do wonder if that one is so bad, the average joe may pick up on it? No ifs ands or butts about it; though it's repairable, the Corvette was DAMAGED by the detailer. No different than a salesman dinging the door or the shop guy forgetting to re-install the drain plug in the engine. The latter may cost more to repair than buffer trails and swirls but it's the same idea; permanent damage (because you'll have to remove clearcoat to fix it; so it's permanent! Even if you eliminate the swirls and trails, there is less clear coat then there should be).

It's a good used-car buying technique though. Most of the 'books' value cars as 'fair' if there are "defects or damage that require professional restoration". That is, below Good, Very Good, or Excellent. Remind the salesman that those swirls, scratches, and buffer trails are defects and damage that will require professional restoration!

[FUNX650]

im talking about the high end/classic cars that come with majjoorrr buffer trails, water etching, scratches, etc..


Why set these type of vehicles/vehicle owners...apart from others?
I'd want any vehicle/vehicle owner: "to be made whole".

http://www.runemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/yes.gif

Bob

[Romans5.8]

Why set these type of vehicles/vehicle owners...apart from others?
I'd want any vehicle/vehicle owner: "to be made whole".

http://www.runemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/yes.gif

Bob

+1.

I don't own a car that would make anyone turn a head or drool. Doesn't mean they don't deserve to look their best and be in great shape!

I've heard it before though. "Why do you spend so much time on that? It's just a Taurus? (or a Focus, or a Saturn, or whatever I've owned)". Well, because it cost me thousands of dollars! No two ways about it. Why is a $20,000 watch a prized possession but a $20,000 car a disposable item? It's the same $20,000 and I wanna take care of it!

[swanicyouth]

The previous hack detailer?

I'm still here.

[JKL1031]

^lol. After seeing what I see, I could almost leave a business card(if I were a pro) saying "I can fix those swirls."

[Vegas Transplant]

OK...before I offend anyone, the below post is NOT directed to anyone on these forums.

Hack detailers do more than holo paint.
They used substandard chemicals that ruin anodized metals.
They use trim coatings than run and bleed all over the paint the first opportunity it gets wet.
They set stains in carpets and upholstery.

They scratch glass, bend/crease SS trim, leave sanding marks in corrected paint, burn through the clear, used too aggressive tools and products, ect. ad infinitum...

I've done all of these things prior to '08.
I only got called out on burn thru's on paint and graphics.

[cardaddy]

The previous hack detailer?

I'm still here.

Oh that is TOO funny brother! :applause::wave::applause:

And Happy Halloween to you as well. :D

[Kaban]

You have to look at it realistically.

Yes there are a ton of people on the forums that will do a pretty correction detail and document it and so forth. There are also businesses that can provide that kind of quality work.

You have to understand that good work requires lots of time and experience. That comes with a price. Most people are not willing to pay anywhere near $800-$2000 for a muti stage correction detail with a coating application. It's a very niche market for a very small client base (relative to the masses).

It's the classic "you get what you pay for" scenario. You can't expect perfect results if you are dealing with middle class clients who only want to pay $100-150 for a so called buff job.

Furthemore, most people, in Mike Phillip's own words, do not know a swirl from a squirrel. Most times people don't even notice them or holograms and if they do, they do not think anything of them. I once read that when you see holograms, you know the car just go polished. As funny as that sounds, it's true. If you see holograms, the car did just get polish, albeit it didn't get finished down properly but that's a different discussion.

[Romans5.8]

You have to look at it realistically.

Yes there are a ton of people on the forums that will do a pretty correction detail and document it and so forth. There are also businesses that can provide that kind of quality work.

You have to understand that good work requires lots of time and experience. That comes with a price. Most people are not willing to pay anywhere near $800-$2000 for a muti stage correction detail with a coating application. It's a very niche market for a very small client base (relative to the masses).

It's the classic "you get what you pay for" scenario. You can't expect perfect results if you are dealing with middle class clients who only want to pay $100-150 for a so called buff job.

Furthemore, most people, in Mike Phillip's own words, do not know a swirl from a squirrel. Most times people don't even notice them or holograms and if they do, they do not think anything of them. I once read that when you see holograms, you know the car just go polished. As funny as that sounds, it's true. If you see holograms, the car did just get polish, albeit it didn't get finished down properly but that's a different discussion.

Absolutely.

Prior to coming to AG, if I took my car to a detailer and there wasn't any dirt on the paint and the interior was stain free and dust free, I'd be ecstatic! Would have no idea the buffer trails or swirls were there, nor would I realize the damage done to my clear!

Now I know a lot more. And it's costing me a ton of time and money! LOL

[Kaban]

Absolutely.

Prior to coming to AG, if I took my car to a detailer and there wasn't any dirt on the paint and the interior was stain free and dust free, I'd be ecstatic! Would have no idea the buffer trails or swirls were there, nor would I realize the damage done to my clear!

Now I know a lot more. And it's costing me a ton of time and money! LOL

Worked on an M6 not long ago, the car had the hood and a few other parts repainted by a reputable local shop. The painted areas were wetsanded and buffed by that shop. The owner was very happy. Upon inspection, I saw a ton of pig tails and sanding marks that were not fully removed by the shop. Car was white so it's impossible to see without lighting.

The reason I bring this up is, after showing that to the client, he had to go back to the bodyshop and that bodyshop inspected those panels and could not find any fault. They didn't see the defects.

I figure if a bodyshop can't see it, odds are, most people will not see it either. Everybody sees things differently. What to some looks like a finished product, to others looks like a work in progress. What looks amazing to some looks awful to others. Enthusiast detailers on this forum and other sites have different ways of looking at things and I think it's safe to say, they (we) are OCD in many respects and sometimes find ourselves chasing that one swirl that got away, or doing two steps of polishing on side skirts just because deep inside you know it has to get done even though the sun will probably never hit those areas and reveal the swirls there.

I guess what I am trying to say is, what matters to us may not matter to others. Alot of people are just looking for a clean and shiny car and these "hack" detailers seemingly do that for alot of people.

[Romans5.8]

Worked on an M6 not long ago, the car had the hood and a few other parts repainted by a reputable local shop. The painted areas were wetsanded and buffed by that shop. The owner was very happy. Upon inspection, I saw a ton of pig tails and sanding marks that were not fully removed by the shop. Car was white so it's impossible to see without lighting.

The reason I bring this up is, after showing that to the client, he had to go back to the bodyshop and that bodyshop inspected those panels and could not find any fault. They didn't see the defects.

I figure if a bodyshop can't see it, odds are, most people will not see it either. Everybody sees things differently. What to some looks like a finished product, to others looks like a work in progress. What looks amazing to some looks awful to others. Enthusiast detailers on this forum and other sites have different ways of looking at things and I think it's safe to say, they (we) are OCD in many respects and sometimes find ourselves chasing that one swirl that got away, or doing two steps of polishing on side skirts just because deep inside you know it has to get done even though the sun will probably never hit those areas and reveal the swirls there.

I guess what I am trying to say is, what matters to us may not matter to others. Alot of people are just looking for a clean and shiny car and these "hack" detailers seemingly do that for alot of people.

I'm with ya.

A 'hack' detailer instills the swirls and scratches and damages the paint with bad techniques. That, I think, is a little different. But I see so many guys doing so much work that their customers don't even realize they did. Some who 'know their market', would perhaps first point out the swirls and scratches to see if the owner is even concerned about them, if not, wash it the right way, throw a coat of wax on it, and clean the interior. Though I know a lot of guys probably would have a hard time handing over a car full of swirls and scratches; fact is, you've gotta know your market! There's a lot of people who wouldn't be able to tell the difference, anyway.

Not advocating ignoring the defects, just saying that I don't think a detailer who just washes, waxes, and cleans the interior is a hack (as long as it's done correctly). It's the ones who INSTILL the defects; but even then, they'll stay in business because most customers have no clue. Look at dealerships! Jpegs just posted a photo of his new Lamborghini. MSRP in excess of $350,000. He reported dealer-installed swirls. It's just ignorance, and it's everywhere from the buy-here pay-here junk lot, to the high end exotic dealers. They have NO IDEA they are doing the damage, and they probably don't care, because the overwhelming majority of their customers don't care.

[cardaddy]

Worked on an M6 not long ago, the car had the hood and a few other parts repainted by a reputable local shop. The painted areas were wetsanded and buffed by that shop. The owner was very happy. Upon inspection, I saw a ton of pig tails and sanding marks that were not fully removed by the shop. Car was white so it's impossible to see without lighting.

The reason I bring this up is, after showing that to the client, he had to go back to the bodyshop and that bodyshop inspected those panels and could not find any fault. They didn't see the defects.

I figure if a bodyshop can't see it, odds are, most people will not see it either. Everybody sees things differently. What to some looks like a finished product, to others looks like a work in progress. What looks amazing to some looks awful to others. Enthusiast detailers on this forum and other sites have different ways of looking at things and I think it's safe to say, they (we) are OCD in many respects and sometimes find ourselves chasing that one swirl that got away, or doing two steps of polishing on side skirts just because deep inside you know it has to get done even though the sun will probably never hit those areas and reveal the swirls there.

I guess what I am trying to say is, what matters to us may not matter to others. Alot of people are just looking for a clean and shiny car and these "hack" detailers seemingly do that for alot of people.

Yup, same thing I had happen recently.
A customers DAD fell asleep and wrecked his car causing $12K in damage. Entire right side was repainted along with a new bumper cover and hood (both were crash parts in the OEM color). The paint is mica black btw.

The orange peel was by far the worst I've ever seen from a shop that I know does good work. Adding to that the hood had been spot blended and had below surface sanding marks. Plus the RR quarter had a dry spray area.

I pointed out all the problems to the owner and he asked me if I could/would fix them. I politely declined and told him he needed to have the shop do it. Why? Because they CAN. And of course that HAVE TO! Well that and I know the shop manager, he's a great guy, and believe you me --- he didn't see that job. :eek:

So I went with the owner to the shop and we went over the car. Two days later he took it in, got a brand new Buick SUV as a loaner and two days later he got it back. Car looks great!

Thing is the production department didn't see it, or didn't care to see it. Really doesn't matter if the owner didn't see it. But he did, sorta. I was the one that really picked it apart for him. He knew *something* was wrong but not exactly *what*.

Couldn't be better timing for the new "Black Label" stuff though. I figure we're about to do the entire car in it. ;)