The truth about sillicone and Petrolium distilates

[Thejoyofdriving]

I keeps looking around of all sorts of products, continuing my search for the best products at the best prices, and there are these things that are tearing me apart, some companys say that sillicones are bad some say they are good, some companys say water based products are the highest quality some use petroluim distilates and claim their products are the best. :mad::confused:its really driving me nuts, are sillicone free - water based products really better for your car, look better and higher quality than companys that use petrolium distilates and sillicones???????

[coupe]

You read way way way way way to much into everything.

Have you actually polished your paint yet?

[Gary Sword]

I hear the sillicone ones feel real. I don't know if the petrolium ones are safe. The real ones are the best. :)
:rolleyes:
Wait a minute, are you talking about detailing products :confused:

Honestly I have been detailing for a long time and I have tried a lot of different products. I have never used a product that damaged my paint. What best is always debatable. Don't loose sleep over it.

[sparkie]

There are good Silicones and bad Silicones. Let me put it this way, the bad Silicones will push out natural oils out of your leather and plastics and replace it with it own. The good Silicones will not and are mostly water base. I read that somewhere few years back, forgot the source. They done a lot of testing. Don't remember the greek name of the different Silicones.
Definition
Silicones is any of a class of chemical compounds consisting of long chains of alternating silicon and oxygen atoms, with two organic radicals, typically a methyl (CH3) and a phenyl (C6H5) group, attached to each silicon atom. Silicones are very stable and resist the effects of water, heat, and oxidizing agents. They are used to make adhesives, lubricants and synthetic rubber.

[Gnarboots11]

I say just use water based and call it a day.

[ScottB]

the problem with your comments is they can come from either side of the fence. Yes, there are bad silicones (very cheap) that are said to be able to breach the paint and cause damage if repainting was ever needed. Into that you could read, if car never needed body work, who would care ?? Also note, there are good silicones. I would suspect that boutique products using the best of ingredients would "more than likely" use these versus mass market. Remember a bottle of ABC on Wally Worlds shelf for 9.99 costed around 2.00 to make in production. More of the cost is associated with labeling and profit while making a minimum 100% markup. (most are more)

Petroleum Distatlites are used in most carnauba waxes to break down the wax to be usable. Now I think most would agree, lets use as little as possible in order to avoid harm to ones self and also ones environment. That doesnt mean similar and even more complex products are not used in sealants that over time will be noted as bad or harmful. This is why so many products changed when VOC regulations tightened.

Make an informed decision is a mighty chore ... being anything less than a chemist likely means we dont know "all" that is in the bottle in front of us. Sometimes a leap of faith is needed also.

[TOGWT]

As a chemical Engineer (ChemE) I would like to help detailers reach an intelligent and logical understanding of the many chemicals used in detailing. Improperly used chemicals can cause damage to the surface they are applied to (sometimes irreparably) because the detailer was not educated regarding the chemical make-up of the products they used.

Conversely I also want to show you that it's a waste of time to dedicate too much time and attention to them. All that is required is that you learn some basic chemistry i.e. what pH values mean, and what detailing chemicals too avoid or the precaution to take if you do choose to use them.

Good Silicone / Not so good Silicone:
a) Water - based silicone dressings, usually a milky-white liquid, (Polydimethylsiloxane (http://en.wikipedia.org/####/Polydimethylsiloxane) (PDS) that doesn’t contain petroleum distillate; silicone oils, waxes, or solvents that can harm rubber and/or vinyl over time. Water-based dressings use a combination of natural oils and polymers to offer a non-greasy, satin finish. Some of these products also contain ultra violet radiation (UVR) blocking agents to help keep tires from cracking, fading and hardening. Most, if not all water-based dressings are biodegradable (i.e. Zaino Z-16 Perfect Tire Gloss™) whereas silicone is not.

b) Solvent-based silicone dressings, usually a clear greasy liquid, (Dimethal (DMS) that contain petroleum solvents as a cleaning agent, they remove the elasticity from vinyl, rubber and paint; causing them to evaporate out of the substrate, leaving behind a dry inflexible surface. The difference between water and solvent based is in the carrier system used. Solvent based products use a hydrocarbon silicone to suspend the product. When you apply it, the solvent evaporates leaving the dressing's active ingredients (Silicone oil) behind; this type of silicone is also not biodegradable. Most high gloss products are based upon DMS silicone oil.

[Thejoyofdriving]

Thanks for sheding some light on this subject TOGWT, much appreciated, i would like to hear more if you have any thing else to share.

[sparkie]

As a chemical Engineer (ChemE) I would like to help detailers reach an intelligent and logical understanding of the many chemicals used in detailing. Improperly used chemicals can cause damage to the surface they are applied to (sometimes irreparably) because the detailer was not educated regarding the chemical make-up of the products they used.

Conversely I also want to show you that it's a waste of time to dedicate too much time and attention to them. All that is required is that you learn some basic chemistry i.e. what pH values mean, and what detailing chemicals too avoid or the precaution to take if you do choose to use them.

Good Silicone / Not so good Silicone:
a) Water - based silicone dressings, usually a milky-white liquid, (Polydimethylsiloxane (http://en.wikipedia.org/####/Polydimethylsiloxane) (PDS)that doesn’t contain petroleum distillate; silicone oils, waxes, or solvents that can harm rubber and/or vinyl over time. Water-based dressings use a combination of natural oils and polymers to offer a non-greasy, satin finish. Some of these products also contain ultra violet radiation (UVR) blocking agents to help keep tires from cracking, fading and hardening. Most, if not all water-based dressings are biodegradable (i.e. Zaino Z-16 Perfect Tire Gloss™) whereas silicone is not.

b) Solvent-based silicone dressings, usually a clear greasy liquid, (Dimethal (DMS) that contain petroleum solvents as a cleaning agent, they remove the elasticity from vinyl, rubber and paint; causing them to evaporate out of the substrate, leaving behind a dry inflexible surface. The difference between water and solvent based is in the carrier system used. Solvent based products use a hydrocarbon silicone to suspend the product. When you apply it, the solvent evaporates leaving the dressing's active ingredients (Silicone oil) behind; this type of silicone is also not biodegradable. Most high gloss products are based upon DMS silicone oil.


I was hoping you would jump in here!!!!

[TOGWT]

Silicone: Not to be confused with the element silicon (http://en.wikipedia.org/####/Silicon)

The degree of polymerisation [process of bonding monomers, or single units together through a variety of reaction mechanisms to form longer chains named polymers] determines the physical form of the silicone, which can vary from thin oils to relatively hard rubbers or resins.


The myth of grouping all silicones into one category and label them harmful; environmentally unsound or dangerous is just that, a myth, and like most myths there is some, albeit little truth to it Making an all encompassing statement that products that contain silicone are harmful shows a lack of any real knowledge of the petroleum refining processes; these irresponsible statements are purely misinformation at best, and are meant to mislead or to be used as negative marketing.

Silicones are primarily used to modify or improve certain characteristics; they are sometimes added as a lubricant to provide spread ability thereby making a product easier to apply. The automotive industry uses silicones as component parts (see polymerisation) in its plastic, vinyl, rubber, paints, and fibreglass as well as in polishes and waxes.

Silicone (Siloxane)oils provide an excellent lubricant that when used as a carrier system in polishes that makes them easier to apply and remove When used in paints and other coatings it ensures an even flow through a spray nozzle ensuring an even product distribution.

The low surface tension of some silicones improves automotive cleaning products by increasing the ‘wetting’ ability by providing a much better surface contact for abrasive or solvent type cleaners and polishes. The newer amino functional silicones when added to products create a physical bond with the surface; this boding provides better product durability than products that rely only on surface tension for bonding.

Petroleum distillate silicone oils and solvents are often used in a water-in oil emulsion (water-based silicones) as a delivery method (carrier system) for the protective components of a product. The oils also help the product to spread and then the solvents vaporize (outgas) to enable product residue removal. Solvents evaporate more efficiently, especially at low temperatures than water-based products, which require heat to vaporize. Silicone oils are inherently water repellent so they won’t allow water to compromise the paint surface providing better durability and protection. Because of silicones ability to refract light it also provides a ‘brighter’ shine.



Information resource:U.S. Environmental Protection Agency website, Department of the Environment (DOE), EPA/Purdue University Study 2001 -79 The American Association of Industrial Hygiene (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Association+of+Industrial+Hygiene&spell=1) (AAIH) American Petroleum Institute (API) publications The Basics of Silicon Chemistry - Dow Corning. http://www.eng.buffalo.edu (http://www.eng.buffalo.edu/)Chemical definitions by Main Page - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org)

Reference source- Automotive Detailing Inside & Out, A Knowledge Base for the Perfectionist – by Jon Miller aka TOGWT™ © 2004 – 2007 all rights reserved

[Thejoyofdriving]

But silicones are not biodegradeable right? Is there any alternative to silicone which is more enviromentaly friendly and offers similar or better characteristics?

[TOGWT]

Water - based silicone dressings, usually a milky-white liquid, (Polydimethylsiloxane (http://en.wikipedia.org/####/Polydimethylsiloxane) (PDS)that doesn’t contain petroleum distillate; silicone oils, waxes, or solvents that can harm rubber and/or vinyl over time. Water-based dressings use a combination of natural oils and polymers to offer a non-greasy, satin finish. Some of these products also contain ultra violet radiation (UVR) blocking agents to help keep tires from cracking, fading and hardening. Most, if not all water-based dressings are biodegradable (i.e. Zaino Z-16 Perfect Tire Gloss™) [Edit - whereas solvent-based] silicone is not.