Curious if I caused my own problem

[Russ57]

Okay, total detailing newbie here.....as in the kind that never waxed his car in his life.....and I'm old:)

So I did a little reading and decided to give it a go on a metallic silver 2008 Pontiac Vibe. Washed with Rain X brand shampoo using a normal wash cloth. I have three huge oak trees in front of my house so I needed to be a little more agressive than the cleaning mit allowed. Took a couple/few hours! Washed again a few days later and that was quick and easy. Dried car, used a clay bar, rinsed, applied NXT liquid, let dry for an hour and buffed it out with terry cloth towel. I felt it came out quite nice. Clay bar went very easy yet did make a noticeable difference in how smooth it felt.

If you are still with me....now comes that bad part. Warked out to the parking garage at work on my way home yesterday....put some uniforms in the hatchback.....and noticed the entire top of the car had tons on fine scratches, in roughly straight lines, from the front to back of the roof. These look like long scratches....not lots of random little ones. Funny thing is you can't see them in norm,al sunlight. I can't see them at night with a flashlight. Seems they only show in a diffused type of light.

They may have been there all along. I may have caused them with the clay bar but the rest of the car looks fine. They look like what you'd expect from driving through the Sahara at 100 MPH. Nothing you can feel or catch a fingernail in. Heck nothing you can see under most conditions.

So what to do and how to fix it? Rather not buy a machine. Rather not work with anything so aggressive I could do real damage. Scratch X seems to be suggested as the best choice in an over the counter hand applied solution. Should I buy some and go it a go? I'd feel more comfortable if I could see the scratches under normal sunlight conditions so I could judge progress. Maybe there is a trick for that?

[Desertnate]

Here are my thoughts, I'm sure the real pro's will be along soon.

Those scratches you see are called swirl marks. The are in the clear coat of the paint and don't show up under some lighting conditions.

The cause of those could very well be the wash cloth and the terry cloth towel you're using for washing and drying. You would be surprised how easly some paint scratches. The clay could be suspect if you didn't use enough lube and/or you didn't rotate it enough and you were rubbing the contaminates across the paint.

There are lots of tips here regarding swirl marks. Most will require lots of elbow grease or a machine to get rid of them. You could also look at hiding them with a glaze depending on how bad they are. The down side of a glaze is the fillers will wear away and the swirls will appear again.

[FUNX650]

:welcome:...to AGO!

Using the suggested ColorX may just alleviate the appearance of those scratches on the Vibe's roof.

Bring it with you, and take the vehicle to the same, or similar spot in the parking garage...
for that's where the lighting, that initially alerted you to these scratches, was located.

That may be the trick in seeing the progress of the scratches being removed. Hope so.

:)

Bob

[Vegas Transplant]

Okay, total detailing newbie here.....as in the kind that never waxed his car in his life.....and I'm old:)

...a metallic silver 2008 Pontiac Vibe.
Washed with Rain X brand shampoo

Washed again a few days later and that was quick and easy. Dried car, used a clay bar, rinsed, applied NXT liquid, let dry for an hour and buffed it out with terry cloth towel. I felt it came out quite nice.

... tons on fine scratches, in roughly straight lines, from the front to back of the roof. These look like long scratches....not lots of random little ones. Funny thing is you can't see them in norm,al sunlight. I can't see them at night with a flashlight. Seems they only show in a diffused type of light.

Nothing you can feel or catch a fingernail in.



Two questions:
1. Since you are not the type to wash your vehicle, did you run it through the swirl-o-matic periodically?

2. Also, since no wash = no wax/protection, does the "scratches" look like this on your roof?


Clearcoat Fracturing versus Clearcoat Failure (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/40855-clearcoat-fracturing-versus-clearcoat-failure.html)


Pictures courtesy of Jacob aka timaishu
The term Clearcoat Fracturing by Dave aka tuscarora dave


Clearcoat Fracturing
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1259/ClearcoatFracturing01.jpg

Clearcoat Failure



More clearcoat fracturing pictures by Jacob
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1259/ClearcoatFracturing02.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1259/ClearcoatFracturing03.jpg


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1259/ClearcoatFracturing04.jpg


Problem
When you diagnose paint with clearcoat fracturing, this is an indicator of a problem with the clear layer of paint.

Clearcoat Fracturing cannot be fixed by machine compounding and polishing as the fractures are like millions of stress cracks that run throughout the entire matrix or thickness of the clear layer of paint. Abrading the paint will just make the pant thinner and expose a deeper portion of the fractures.


Solutions

Live with the defect
Best recommendations are to prep the paint accordingly to insure the surface is clean and smooth, that is clay an polish if needed, and then maintain what lifespan is left in the paint using a premium quality wax, paint sealant or coating.

Repaint
The other option is to have the panel or component re-painted.
:)

If the aswer is 'yes' to #2, then you did not 'cause' it by wash/clay/seal mini detail. But you 'caused' it by default.

[BlackHawk]

sheesh almost everything you did could lead me to the source of the problem. Its the combination of things you did that resulted in that. I am sure you need an appropriate light to see the defects, as silver hides a lot. You cant just stick a flashlight on it and expect to see something. Its a little bit more tricky

[Russ57]

No, nothing near as bad as the pics above. You can't see it normally.

Lets just say being a single parent....determined to see his daughter through college....has left me driving cars not worth taking care of.

The Vibe was purchased as a pre-certified car so she would have complete coverage while away from home. It appeared to be well cared for....pristine in all regards. I can't say if the scratches were there before I began the work or if I caused them. Regardless it is my job to fix them. I don't want to make matters worse though!

Okay....looking as though I'm doing everything wrong. I can see how using the wash cloth was a bad move. Not too sure what else I did that was so wrong so please educate me. I wasn't agressive with the clay bar. That part went very smoothly and quickly. Only place I seemed to pick up anything was on the pin striping which I then stayed away from.

FWIW dim light seems to be the key....was getting ready to storm today....very dark and overcast....which allowed me to finally see some at home.

[rmagnus]

Well the wash cloth really wasn't a good thing but I've seen worse like a brillow pad to scrub bird poo off the roof. As you say the car has taken a beating well before that so a wash cloth may have not been the worse thing. The color of the cr is the best thing going because it hides a lot of sins.

If you really don't want to take care of it why not just use a car wash. To remove the scratches you'll need to polish it. By machine is best but it can be done by hand. As suggested Color X or Scratch X should do the trick. Use a micro fiber towel this time. Afterwards put some wax on it.

If you're really interested read up on some of Mikes tutiorials on how to was a car or wax one.

PS I've got one of those kids in college 2 years into it and my account is down $100K, so I feel your pain.

[Vegas Transplant]

No, nothing near as bad as the pics above. You can't see it normally.

Lets just say being a single parent....determined to see his daughter through college....has left me driving cars not worth taking care of.


First of all, Welcome to the forums. There's a wealth of info and guidance here.:dblthumb2:

I have a meticulously maintained silver dd that's outside 24/7/365 that has shown signs of fracturing on the painted door handle assemblies and early stage CC failure on the hood that other non Geeks find indistinguishable. Both of my vehicles are older than your Vibe.

Both defects are hard to see and if it were not for time spent on the forums I would not know what they were.

Best wishes to you and your daughter both.

Happy detailing... :buffing:

[HateSwirls]

Bob had a good suggestion for you but pictures would help to see the damage.
Could you take some pics?

[geekdout]

Taking great care of your car doesn't have to be very expensive although must of us don't really subscribe to that kind of thing. So the first thing I suggest for you is to invest in some microfibers and stop using the terry cloth towels on your paint. Your Pontiac is actually made by Toyota so the clear coat is on the soft side.
You said you don't want to buy a machine, so if your not going to correct the paint why not try hide the defects or just make the most out of your paint. I would suggest taking a look at the Prima line of products, specifically Amigo and Banana Gloss.
Amigo will clean the paint and help to fill some of the swirls. Top that with Banana Gloss which does a great job of not showing minor defects and I am pretty sure you will be happy with the results.

[swanicyouth]

Taking great care of your car doesn't have to be very expensive although must of us don't really subscribe to that kind of thing. So the first thing I suggest for you is to invest in some microfibers and stop using the terry cloth towels on your paint. Your Pontiac is actually made by Toyota so the clear coat is on the soft side.
You said you don't want to buy a machine, so if your not going to correct the paint why not try hide the defects or just make the most out of your paint. I would suggest taking a look at the Prima line of products, specifically Amigo and Banana Gloss.
Amigo will clean the paint and help to fill some of the swirls. Top that with Banana Gloss which does a great job of not showing minor defects and I am pretty sure you will be happy with the results.

This is good advice. But really, you should get a machine and do it right. The stuff isn't expensive compared to what the car costs or mechanical repairs.

[Russ57]

I will give consideration to a machine. Is the porter cable the one to get? I reckon I was avoiding one because I've seen people cause a lot of damage in the past.

I'd like to learn how to do things the right way.

[ken tuep]

I'd go for the Griots garage 6" polisher. It has much more power, and a lifetime warranty. Its up to almost any task you can imagine.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using AG Online

[vet]

First, Welcome!

If it's a daily driver, and the scratches aren't that noticeable, don't obsess over it. I'm no pro, but I would try a mild swirl remover, then a sealant topped with a carnuba.

By all means, hone your washing/drying technique. Use grit guards, quality wash mitt, and microfibers. Learn from the advice on the forum, especially Mike Phillips (and others).

[Desertnate]

I will give consideration to a machine. Is the porter cable the one to get? I reckon I was avoiding one because I've seen people cause a lot of damage in the past.

I'd like to learn how to do things the right way.

You've come to the right place to lear the right way. Mike's video's and advice along with the HUGE amount of info people have contributed here should do it for you.

If money is tight, I'd recomend the Harbor Freight DA polisher. You can get one for far less that the Porter Cable or other models. With a new, inexpensive backing plate from here or other sites it's a great tool.

As for products, you can get plenty of good stuff from the Meguiars line that won't break the bank. Their Ultimate Compound and Ultimate Polish are only about $9~$10 a bottle and should do great things for your paint with a machine. Many folks seem to like several of the Meguiars wax products too.

Since the Vibe is essentially a Toyota, I can vouch for the Meguiars UC/UP working well. I hit my wife's Highlander with UP and got the swirls out really easy, and didn't need to step down to the more agressive UC.