M105 Advice Needed

[FrankS]

I have noticed on the forum that many recommend Meguiars M105 polish and that it is good to have as part of your detailing arsenal so I bought some along with the M205. I have heard good things about the results that many are getting with the M105.

I tried using it today on a black 2011 Camaro that had plenty of swirls & scratches. I used it with a Flex 3401 polisher and 6.5 inch orange LC CCS pad. I didn't get good results. The product dried rather quickly, was dusting and was difficult to remove after about 5 to 6 section passes at a speed of 5 or 6 on the Flex. The pad was primed initially with a couple squirts of Wolfgang's Pad Werks Polishing Pad Conditioner and instead of removing the swirls I think I added more from the buffing process. I prefer to stick with the LC CCS Pads since these are what I mostly have.

I must be doing something wrong since I have heard good reports about the M105.

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

[jmfp]

So you aren't happy with the defect removal or did you remove the defects & have a haze left from the 1st step?

You should be able to get good correction with the combo you are using. If you aren't getting enough correction, move up to a microfiber cutting pad or a surbuf.

If its a haze from your compounding. Jump to 205 on a white or black CCS. That should clear it up.

I have CCS pads & have gotten good results. I'm not really a fan of them though. I have been quite impressed with hydro techs though.

M105 is a tricky compound. You could put a dot or 2 of 205 on the pad & that will increase your working time and reduce the dusting.

[scrubs147]

You first have to make sure that the area you're working on is at least cool to the touch (out of the sun and heat). Second, you can always moisten the pad slightly giving you longer working time with the product. Third, make sure you're working in small areas (18" by 18" or 24" x 24" areas), up and down - left to right over lapping patterns. Work slow, take your time, and let the machine do the work.

[tuscarora dave]

How large of an area are you working in?

Is the 105 clumping up on the paint while you're compounding? If so you're using too much product on the pad for one section.

You should try to keep your work sections around 12 to 16 inches squared, and work the 105 until it's pretty much gone from the paint. At this point you should brush the spent product from your pad and inspect your results.

A lot of GM paints are very hard so it may take a few attempts to get the swirls and scratches leveled out of the paint in your work area. And remember....you are removing paint with each failed attempt at this.

M-105 is a fast cutting product with a short working time. Another way to say that would be that it has super hard and sharp, fairly fine abrasives, but the solvents in the product evaporate rather quickly so it ends up dusting a good bit when worked to it's full potential.

So many people want a dust free compound, I always say that "Dusting is simply part of the deal when compounding paint" and there's a trade off in time when you go to a less dusting compound, or add something to a fast cutting (but dusty) compound to reduce the dusting.

Essentially you add something oily like M-205 or some folks have used a few drops of mineral oil to increase the working time of M-105, but that's exactly what it does...increases the time that you have to work to get the results you're attempting to achieve.

Another common setback that guys new to M-105 make is to use the foam pad priming spray that you mentioned using. There's something in those products that make them slick, that same ingredient "theoretically" would change or alter the way a fast cutting fast flashing compound "should" work, making it take longer to work and potentially hyper-lubricating the abrasives in the compound, resulting in a less effective product.

If a product it designed to flash (or dry out) quickly, then it stands to reason that the product also needs to be worked over the paint for a sufficient amount of time as to get the desired "swirl free" results, before it does flash completely dry. The way to achieve this (product unaltered) is to do longer, slower (arm speed) section passes in a smaller work section.

Additionally, the abrasives in M-105 don't stop working just because you don't see a wet trail of product following the pad as you work it across the paint. Work it til it is gone and if you are left with a bad haze then your pad is likely what's leaving the haze behind, or you're not working clean and dirt or other stuff (spent product not cleaned from your pad from a previous attempt) is the cause of the hazing.

M-105 is not reliant on a cutting pad to do the work. I actually find that a foam pad with smaller cells like a polishing pad works better to keep more abrasives against the paint, producing faster, nicer work.

To add more product, so the pad stays wet and dusts less simply hyper lubricates the abrasives rendering the cutting action less effective.

To add some M-205, so the pad stays wet and dusts less simply hyper lubricates the abrasives rendering the cutting action less effective.

To add mineral oil or baby oil, so the pad stays wet and dusts less simply hyper lubricates the abrasives rendering the cutting action less effective.

The product can be worked to it's potential with less dusting and fast cutting but it requires a technique and certain amount of product used and worked for a certain amount of time, at a certain machine and arm speed. These factors change with every car you work on and really can't be taught. It's something you work out during the process of working on each car, and the more experience you have working with M-105 the easier it gets.

[jankerson]

Yep, exactly. :)

M105 is great stuff that cuts very quickly and will leave a very nice finish, I also use a polishing pad with M105.

If people want something that dusts less then Megs Ultimate Compound would be better for them. Also an excellent product that cuts fast with a polishing pad.

I keep both on hand and like both of them.

[Pureshine]

I used 105/205 combo on this black Escalade this weekend. Had no dusting or problems just mix a little 205 with the 105.
http://i1148.photobucket.com/albums/o580/kicku9/Black%20Escalade/DSC_0417_zpsa1b084ad.jpg (http://s1148.photobucket.com/user/kicku9/media/Black%20Escalade/DSC_0417_zpsa1b084ad.jpg.html)
http://i1148.photobucket.com/albums/o580/kicku9/Black%20Escalade/DSC_0419_zps4fedd42b.jpg (http://s1148.photobucket.com/user/kicku9/media/Black%20Escalade/DSC_0419_zps4fedd42b.jpg.html)

[olenderc]

A lot of GM paints are very hard so it may take a few attempts to get the swirls and scratches leveled out of the paint in your work area. And remember....you are removing paint with each failed attempt at this.

Dave, I would just like to bounce something off you regarding your statement about removing paint with each failed attempt.

Say you are polishing your hood which has moderate swirls but no deep scratches. You are compounding with 105 but can't seem to get a test spot to finish out nice due to technique or other factors.

Yes you are removing paint/clear which each subsequent attempt, but could it be safe to assume if the swirls are still there (or possibly slight hazing) that you have not removed enough clear regardless to achieve the swirl-free finish you desired in the first place?

I often picture the "jagged mountains" example of scratched up paint. In order to achieve that perfect swirl-free finish, you have to level those peaks until there are no more and you are left with a flat surface.

So in essence, yes each subsequent pass is removing more and more paint, but assuming the swirls are still there, there are still peaks which need to be leveled. This is not to say people shouldn't be cautious when compounding or doing heavy defect removal.

However, am I correct in assuming in an example such as above, that even though it is taking multiple passes to develop a technique for the particular car you are working on, you aren't nearing a dangerously close limit of burning through your paint simply because you are making multiple passes assuming the original swirls/defects are still present?

[jankerson]

I also used the M105/M205 combo on my White Jeep Liberty.

M105 on Megs 6.5" yellow pad followed by M205 on Megs 6.5 Beige Pad and topped with NXT 2.0.

http://photocamel.com/gallery/data/7962/medium/DSC_40241.JPG

http://photocamel.com/gallery/data/7962/medium/DSC_4025.JPG

http://photocamel.com/gallery/data/7962/medium/DSC_40261.JPG

http://photocamel.com/gallery/data/7962/medium/DSC_4027.JPG

http://photocamel.com/gallery/data/7962/medium/DSC_4028.JPG

[artofdetailing]

I have noticed on the forum that many recommend Meguiars M105 polish and that it is good to have as part of your detailing arsenal so I bought some along with the M205. I have heard good things about the results that many are getting with the M105.

I tried using it today on a black 2011 Camaro that had plenty of swirls & scratches. I used it with a Flex 3401 polisher and 6.5 inch orange LC CCS pad. I didn't get good results. The product dried rather quickly, was dusting and was difficult to remove after about 5 to 6 section passes at a speed of 5 or 6 on the Flex. The pad was primed initially with a couple squirts of Wolfgang's Pad Werks Polishing Pad Conditioner and instead of removing the swirls I think I added more from the buffing process. I prefer to stick with the LC CCS Pads since these are what I mostly have.

I must be doing something wrong since I have heard good reports about the M105.

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

m105 is so finicky. I suggest using Menzerna FG400 its way easier and just as effective.

[greatwhitenorth]

m105 is so finicky. I suggest using Menzerna FG400 its way easier and just as effective.

I agree and finishes out beautifully

[FrankS]

Thank you all for the great advice and Dave for the informative explanation.

I was trying to keep my work area about 18 x 18 inches or less. I used the M105 on a couple of panels and then I switched to Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover since I've had some experience working with it before and is easier to work with and am not able to spend too much time experimenting with M105 today.

I also used the Wolfgang Finishing Glaze after the compounding step. I have had good results with the WG Glaze. I also discovered that after I applied the glaze to the panels that had been worked with M105 that those panels looked the best. I can see where the M105 and M205 would work good together as a one-two punch.

I guess I was trying to get finish or last step effects with the M105. I can see I'm going to need more experience in order to do that.

[statusdetailing]

This is something i see quite often...guys buying new products and then come on here upset because they arent getting spectacular reaults. Im in no way knocking you, but it is exactaly like a guy walking in an art store, totally inexperienced. He goes in and buys the best paint and brushes and the most expensive canvas only to take them home and find that its his work is sloppy and the colors arent right--the perspectives are off and the painting is trash. This was a concept that took me years to grasp. Detailing is an art, especially the paint correction side of it. Mike phillips, kevin brown, larry kosilla, paul dalton and even a lot of us here on ag make it look easy, in a similar that bob ross made painting look easy.
I am absolutely in no way bragging, but i can tell you from experience that it can take hundreds of cars to come to a point where you are very proficient in paint correction.

Keep working hard, try different pads and even cars. Make mistakes, get confused and after a few years you'll start to get a feel for it.

Like someone already mentioned, m105 is a tricky compound that sometimes behaves strangely if its hot, too moist, dry, pad is spinning too fast or slow...a lot of factors can come into play. It takes a long time to see a probelm occurring and say, "hey it must be xyz."

[jankerson]

Thank you all for the great advice and Dave for the informative explanation.

I was trying to keep my work area about 18 x 18 inches or less. I used the M105 on a couple of panels and then I switched to Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover since I've had some experience working with it before and is easier to work with and am not able to spend too much time experimenting with M105 today.

I also used the Wolfgang Finishing Glaze after the compounding step. I have had good results with the WG Glaze. I also discovered that after I applied the glaze to the panels that had been worked with M105 that those panels looked the best. I can see where the M105 and M205 would work good together as a one-two punch.

I guess I was trying to get finish or last step effects with the M105. I can see I'm going to need more experience in order to do that.


Once you get used to M105 it will totally blow your mind and followed up with M205 the finish you can get will be well worth the effort.

[KS_Detailing]

I used 105/205 combo on this black Escalade this weekend. Had no dusting or problems just mix a little 205 with the 105.


How much 205 are you mixing with 105?

[Pureshine]

How much 205 are you mixing with 105?

One pea size drop of each. I use FG400 all the time but you can not rely one compound for all paint. The pictures above of the Escalade I usually use FG400 but the paint didn't like.