How to finish polish (jewel) with rotary?

[Harry Da Hamster]

After a brief stint with the Rupes polisher, i will be going back to the Flex 3401. But i've also been contemplating the idea of getting a rotary also for the main purpose of finish polishing or jeweling, and though i don't work on many neglected vehicles, to a lesser degree id be using it for the purpose of heavy correction. I realize the only way to really jewel paint is by using very low RPM and an ultra fine polish like SF4500 (85RD) which i have. But i also read a comment by Mike Phillips where he said "Trying to create a 100% swirl free finish on a clear coated black vehicle using ONLY a direct-drive rotary buffer is hard to do". So based on Mikes quote, would i be wrecking my almost perfect DA polisher finish by running a rotary on the paint after? Or is it really possible to jewel with a rotary?

[statusdetailing]

It's possible with a very fine pad and polish. The question is, will there be any discernible difference after doing it? Might depend on the paint. Modern polishes finish so well. Is there a point in a 3rd or even 4th step of polishing? Maybe on a museum quality paint job. . .that won't be driven.

[Mike Phillips]

Just to add...

The thing about using only a rotary buffer on a car is that you can leave what looks like a flawless, hologram free finish in your eyes at that moment.

If there are holograms, you might not be able to see them unless you chemically strip the car and then view the car in bright overhead sun.


Stripping the paint takes time
Stripping the paint risks marring it in the process.
You don't always have a hot, sunny summer day at noon to inspect.
On a light colored car even if their are holograms they can still be hard to see.

So here's the question...

If you don't really do a great job of completely stripping off any oils, fillers other masking ingredients and then inspect in full sun or very bright light... how will you actually know 100% that you've left a 100% hologram-free finish?

The answer is you won't.

The above all said, if there are holograms, as long as you don't see them and as long as you maintain the paint with a wax, sealant or coating, then the point is moot.


Here's what I know and what I've also see a lot of seasoned professional agree with and that's in most cases, the holograms won't show up till months have gone by and the car in question has been washed over and over again.


I do some rotary buffer only buff-outs... I have nothing against them for the right car and the right owner.

Plus, with products like SF 4500, Sonax Nano Polish and soft foam pads and slow turning rotary buffers, it's more possible now to leave a hologram FREE finish than ever before.

Go for it!


:dblthumb2:

[Mike Phillips]

The question is, will there be any discernible difference after doing it? Might depend on the paint.


Don't forget to factor in the LSP. a quality coat of wax, paint sealant or a coating has the effect of creating a very uniform appearance over entire panels. That's one of the strong benefits to applying an LSP instead of stopping after the last machine polishing step as advocated by some as the ultimate or best process. (I disagree).





Modern polishes finish so well. Is there a point in a 3rd or even 4th step of polishing?




And this is a benefit to all of us...

Like Joe Fernandez once said, (paraphrase)

It used to be you actually had to have some talent and experience to get good results...



:D

[goodinblack]

Hello mike.....

What's the word on the new polish reflect car pro?

How does that stack up against s4500?

[Mike Phillips]

Hello mike.....

What's the word on the new polish reflect car pro?

How does that stack up against s4500?


Haven't used it yet.

Been kind of busy lately with detailing classes, detailing cars, wetsanding cars and behind the scenes I'm coordinating 4 different cars that will be at the My Classic Car TV studio next week for the 2014 season.

It's easy to coordinate cars in my hometown... gets a little trickier when it's not your backyard...


I've heard and read good things about it so far...


:xyxthumbs:

[goodinblack]

Thank you for the reply Mike

[ShaunD]

Another factor to consider is the amount/quality of orange peel on the vehicles you may consider jeweling. It is a tedious task, and most people won't be able to tell the difference in finish polishing with a DA or jeweling with a rotary. Many factors to consider, especially getting paid properly to do the work.

[Mike Phillips]

Another factor to consider is the amount/quality of orange peel on the vehicles you may consider jeweling.



Good observation.






It is a tedious task, and most people won't be able to tell the difference in finish polishing with a DA or jeweling with a rotary.

Many factors to consider, especially getting paid properly to do the work.




I talk about both of the above topics in the chapter on jeweling in my how-to book and as it relates to two new terms I bring up in the second edition...


Gloss Points
Gloss Panels



:xyxthumbs:

[ShaunD]

See, I have learned something from you Mike. ;D LOL
Mike, in your experiences would you say that jeweling some paints make them more scratch sensitive?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using AG Online

[Mike Phillips]

See, I have learned something from you Mike. ;D LOL
Mike, in your experiences would you say that jeweling some paints make them more scratch sensitive?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using AG Online


I would say it this way...

Perfecting paint to... well to perfection...

Perfecting paint to a state of perfection will make any future defects stand out like a sore thumb.


:)

[Andr3wilson]

I love my rotary. At the end of the day, a DA (even Rupes with an MF) cannot hold a candle to a Rotary with a wool pad with regards to cutting power. Sure there will have to be a second step, but, the time you will save is monumental.

Because I am only doing multi step polishes now, my rupes sits on the bench for the correction steps.

My opinion, pull the trigger and get the flex.

[Old Tiger]

I prefer to jewel as the last step.I use Reflect now for this. My SONAX Nano Polish and Menz 4500 don't jewel as well IMO. I believe Mike jewels at 600 rpm. I start at that, step up to 1200 or 1400 and then ramp back down. I will try 600 next time. The key to me is a no cut foam pad.

[Rsurfer]

I prefer to jewel as the last step.I use Reflect now for this. My SONAX Nano Polish and Menz 4500 don't jewel as well IMO. I believe Mike jewels at 600 rpm. I start at that, step up to 1200 or 1400 and then ramp back down. I will try 600 next time. The key to me is a no cut foam pad.

Who carries Reflect? I use 4500, Ultrafina and Sonax Perfect Finish, but I'm willing to try something new for finishing especially when recommended by you Jim.

[ShaunD]

I would say it this way...

Perfecting paint to... well to perfection...

will make any future defects stand out like a sore thumb.


:)

Thanks Mike.
That is along the line of what I was thinking just wanted to see your insight. I just did a black Tundra and it seemed that the paint became a little more sensitive along with the obvious of it showing minor defects more easily after removing the major defects and have a high gloss finish.
The orange peel IMO still took away from the deep gloss I created on it, but only so much you can do with OEM clear coat, over black paint.
I found on the Tundra that using the rotary with a white Hybrid pad and Menz 106/SF allowed me to start with an easy pass to work in the polish, then use firmer pressure with only about 800-900rpm then lighten up for a pass, and finish with a pass or two under 600rpm. This was my combination of finish polishing and jeweling which could be seen as one in the same. Just depends on the paint.