Denim pads to remove orange peel on new car

[rob_v]

I have a new 2013 f150 in Red. The orange peel on it is horrible IMO. Talking with other guys w the same truck it seems like its a fairly common issue w Fords.
I saw Mikes vid on how he removed it using a DA and the denim pads, but that was on new paint job.
I was curious what the opinion is on trying this on a car from the factory?
I have a DA (G110) and some m100, so I was thinking of picking up a pair of the pads and giving it a shot on the tailgate to see how it turns out.
The tailgate is one of the worse areas I notice it on. I know I can live with it, but if I can get rid of it rather painlessly, I'd like to. (painlessly being a relative term, I enjoy working on my cars so taking a the time to do it right is worth it to me)

It seems like one of the pro's of using the denim pads is the risk of burning thru the CC is a lessened. Is there any thing else I should be worried about here? I don't plan on doing it all in one shot. Probably a panel a day.
A few questions about the pads. Are they hook and loop? Do I need any type of special backing plate?

Thanks for any other advice anyone can give..
-Rob

[wompasaurus]

it says the denim pads are for repainted vehicles and the velvet are for stock paint. so for starters go with velvet. denim i think is like 2k sanding marks while velvet i think is 3k could be wrong i haven't looked at the pads in awhile. there hook and look no special plate needed. but i would be carful as no one has really posted on paint thickness readings before and after so its unknown how much clear they remove on average.

[BlackHawk]

it says the denim pads are for repainted vehicles and the velvet are for stock paint. so for starters go with velvet. denim i think is like 2k sanding marks while velvet i think is 3k could be wrong i haven't looked at the pads in awhile. there hook and look no special plate needed. but i would be carful as no one has really posted on paint thickness readings before and after so its unknown how much clear they remove on average.

Velvet pads are pointless. You need a rotary for them, and theres no exception. Denim is the way to go.

BUT, i would not do it on a new car with factory paint. Not only is it risky, it is also time consuming and you just gotta know your stuff. Sure its much safer than wet sanding, but i still wouldnt do it. Its not a show car. Id just live with it and try and keep it as swirl free as possible.

[ShaunD]

If you don't have experience wetsanding and or doing heavy compounding on any paint let alone factory Ford paint, then don't even think about trying this on your own. F150 paint/clear is fairly thin especially for a truck. So without a paint thickeness gauge and knowledge of doing this kind of work then look at hiring a professional detailer.

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[AutowerxDetailing]

"Buff softly and carry a good PTG." - Me, just now.

[MirrorFinish]

The only way is to wet sand I'm afraid and YES factory OEM paint can be sanded.

I have wet sanded a lot of cars over the last 10 years and in reality I have proven that as long as you don't go mad it only takes a few microns of clear off more than heavy compounding.

Shoot me an email if you need help.

[Iron400]

I have a 2012 f150 and the orange peel is bad, but I'd rather deal with seeing the orange peel than remove CC to fix it. I plan on keeping the truck till it dies, so I need the paint to last. The only way I would even consider it would be if it was strictly a show truck/garage queen. Factory clear is too thin already for a DD.

[MirrorFinish]

I have a 2012 f150 and the orange peel is bad, but I'd rather deal with seeing the orange peel than remove CC to fix it. I plan on keeping the truck till it dies, so I need the paint to last. The only way I would even consider it would be if it was strictly a show truck/garage queen. Factory clear is too thin already for a DD.


An average new car has 180 microns of paint on it and about 60 of that is primer and color coat, therefore most cars have about 120 microns of clear to work with, wet sanding the peel out and bufing back takes off about 14 microns. Adding two coats of CQuartz ceramic sealant will add 7-8 microns of protection.

I mainly sand BMW and Audis and know their paint, so Ford may use less, never wet sanded a Ford yet. My Kia Sorento from the factory has 58 microns of primer/paint and 105 of clear giving 158 total. After sanding and polishing I still have 149 microns left. With the beauty of no orange peel.
I went round the Bentley factory last year and they clear the car twice and dry sand half off for that flawless finish, even a mark 2mm in the paint is not acceptable.

[ShaunD]

Those numbers are way off and average is a very blanket statement. The 180 microns the Mirror is talking about may pertain the cars he deals with but I have only seen those numbers on a few GM paint jobs. The F150s I've dealt with average under 150microns and the beds are usually well under that. There are a lot of factors that go into safely removing orange peel from OEM paint so practice on something from the junk yard, similar to your f150 before tackling any panel on your truck.

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[KillaCam]

Just get a paint thickness gauge and wetsand it..

[FUNX650]

Don't know what vehicles everybody is removing the orange peel-laden paints from...

But I truly wish they all had ~7.0-7.1 mils (180 microns) total film-build of all the different layers of
BC/CC-paints, e-coat, etc...With 2/3 of that film-build being ~4.72 mils (120 microns) of Clear-Coat paint...
From the OEM's factory paint kitchens!!

:wow:

Bob

[Mike Phillips]

I have a new 2013 f150 in Red. The orange peel on it is horrible IMO. Talking with other guys w the same truck it seems like its a fairly common issue w Fords.
I saw Mikes vid on how he removed it using a DA and the denim pads, but that was on new paint job.



This one for members and lurkers into the future...

How to remove Orange Peel using a Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/69156-how-remove-orange-peel-using-porter-cable-dual-action-polisher.html)







I was curious what the opinion is on trying this on a car from the factory?
I have a DA (G110) and some m100, so I was thinking of picking up a pair of the pads and giving it a shot on the tailgate to see how it turns out.



I'd say, if the orange peel really bugs you... then go for it. You're only going to be knocking off the tops of the hills that make orange peel, well orange peel.

Note how the tops have been knocked off in the below picture after sanding, it's the same idea...

Removing #1500 Sanding Marks with Rupes Bigfoot 21 Polisher (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/70926-removing-1500-sanding-marks-rupes-bigfoot-21-polisher.html)


Here you can see the orange peel being removed as you look towards the bottom of the picture the orange peel is being removed leaving behind a very flat surface that after compounding and polishing will produce a smooth, high gloss finish with excellent Distinction of Image or DOI.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2070/3M_Flexible_Abrasive_Hookit_Sheets_P1500_006.jpg


If you do this however, you should also already be planning on doing regular maintenance to the paint to take care of the clear coat over the years as it protects all of the paint on your car, top layer to bottom layer. So this means,

"Find something you like and use it often" (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/24310-find-something-you-like-use-often.html)

And check out this one...

Frequent Car Care is Easy Car Care (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/69006-frequent-car-care-easy-car-care.html)







The tailgate is one of the worse areas I notice it on. I know I can live with it, but if I can get rid of it rather painlessly, I'd like to. (painlessly being a relative term, I enjoy working on my cars so taking a the time to do it right is worth it to me)



You're amongst freinds... :D





It seems like one of the pro's of using the denim pads is the risk of burning thru the CC is a lessened. Is there any thing else I should be worried about here? I don't plan on doing it all in one shot. Probably a panel a day.

Good plan.

There's little risk of burning through, just use common sense and don't hammer on raised body lines anytime you buff paint with anything.

The benefits are that no sanding marks induced, so none to remove. The paint will look polished when you're done but you'll still want to do a little final polishing to perfect the results before waxing.


[QUOTE=rob_v;955538]

A few questions about the pads. Are they hook and loop? Do I need any type of special backing plate?

Thanks for any other advice anyone can give..
-Rob

The pads have "loop" and will work with probably any quality backing plate.






Velvet pads are pointless. You need a rotary for them, and theres no exception. Denim is the way to go.



I'd agree with the above. If you're going to do this type of project just get the denim pads.






Id just live with it and try and keep it as swirl free as possible.



Nothing wrong with the above plan either when it comes to daily drivers. My truck has peel and I'm not removing it. I might let my detailing classes use Denim pads on it though just so they can have the experience.








"Buff softly and carry a good PTG." - Me, just now.



That's a great quote! :laughing:




I have a 2012 f150 and the orange peel is bad, but I'd rather deal with seeing the orange peel than remove CC to fix it. I plan on keeping the truck till it dies, so I need the paint to last. The only way I would even consider it would be if it was strictly a show truck/garage queen. Factory clear is too thin already for a DD.



I agree with the above too...

Factory clear is too thin. It's too bad companies like Ford, BMW, and all the rest don't spray just a little more clear for all of us guys that like to buff on our cars.


:)

[rob_v]

Thanks for the info guys. I think I will grab a set of the Denim pads and just try it on tailgate and go from there.

Not going to happen for a few weeks at least, but Ill post some pics of the progress.

Thanks again.
-Rob

[impulseblue06]

I am waiting for my denim pads to do my 2006 gto, I used the velvet with my porter cable and barely touched the orange peel made it better but i have denim pads on the way the car lives most of its life in my garage and i just take it to car cruises.