2011 Black Yukon Correction

[Krindgen]

Longtime fan, new member.

A year ago I purchased my second black vehicle, 2011 Yukon with the non-metallic black finish. It took me 10 yrs to learn how to properly take care of my first black card, Ford F150.

My first detailing last year I applied a coat of Griot’s Paint Sealant with very good results. At this application I tried using clay but couldn’t not lubricate the surface enough to the point of the clay not sticking. Regardless, the Griot’s worked well, evened the paint out and resulted in a swirl-free surface.

Come last week, I had a little time, had just washed the car (two buckets and a boar’s hair brush), and decided to do another application. Maybe unfortunately, I had time, but didn’t think I had enough paint sealant to do the whole vehicle – so I mixed a little of the Griot’s #3 polish with the sealant. Thinking the #3 is fine enough that the paint sealant would fill anything created by this polish that I had mixed in. In retrospect, I would have had enough sealant to do the whole vehicle.

Again, no clay prior, I apply the paint sealant mix. This was in the evening, I apply the sealant to the whole vehicle with a DA machine and a red Griot’s waxing pad. Then remove with MF and detailing spray. When I get finished it looks good – in the dark. So I go and get a flashlight, in the dark I can see the swirls. In the daylight the swirls only come up in the direct sunlight. The following day it was cloudy and they were not visible – but I know they are there. I also still have faint circular halos on the surface and not sure where they come from.

So I’m questioning just what went wrong – knowing now the polish mixing was likely a bad idea, but like a dumb #$%@ I did it anyway. So what was it:

Is this paint particularly sensitive/soft and I need a specific product for black;
Did I need to clay;
Was the pad I used dirty;
Are the swirls just under the surface and the sealant/polish mix uncovered them;
Should I not have let the sealant dry before removing 9it was humid and took awhile to dry);
Something wrong with my wash sequence?

So now I want to fix this issue and looking for solutions and the right products. I could go back to the Griot’s sealant since I had good luck the first application. I would almost rather use a polishing solution to get rid of the swirls. Some of the products I see that I like, primarily the Poor Boys EP-X for this application, and apply enough coats to correct.

Looking for other suggestions from the experts.

[Evan.J]

So I’m questioning just what went wrong – knowing now the polish mixing was likely a bad idea, but like a dumb #$%@ I did it anyway. So what was it:

Is this paint particularly sensitive/soft and I need a specific product for black;
Did I need to clay;
Was the pad I used dirty;
Are the swirls just under the surface and the sealant/polish mix uncovered them;
Should I not have let the sealant dry before removing 9it was humid and took awhile to dry);
Something wrong with my wash sequence?

So now I want to fix this issue and looking for solutions and the right products. I could go back to the Griot’s sealant since I had good luck the first application. I would almost rather use a polishing solution to get rid of the swirls. Some of the products I see that I like, primarily the Poor Boys EP-X for this application, and apply enough coats to correct.

Looking for other suggestions from the experts.


Welcome to AGO first off happy to have you!

Most GM paints tends to be on harder side but a test spot may tell you more.

It seem as iff the swirls were in the paint and not caused from this mixing polish and sealant. Most swirls come from miporper washing and drying along with using quick detailing when there is too much dirty and/or dust on the paint. When you applied the sealant tge first time you may have just covered up the swirls.

Here is what you should do first off wash you vehicle to remove any dust and dirt.

Then you want to clay you paint.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tricks-tips-techniques/56813-baggie-test-tip-paul-aka-2old2change.html

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfxAesk4Po4]Part 1 - How to use detailing clay - YouTube[/video]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opfK408uIxM]Part 2 - How to use detailing clay - YouTube[/video]


You will want to do your test spot next
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/50162-how-do-test-spot.html

This is the area where you will dial in your process and what needs to be done. You would take the polish that you have and a polishing pad and do you test spot and check your results. Examine with the sun or a frlachlight like the Brinkman dual xenon flash light a.k.a. The swirl finder. If after you done with you 6-8 section passes and you remove with polish residue with soft plush MF towels and you still see the swirls you need to step up you polish to a compound like Meguiars Ultimate Compound. So you would repeat everything you did with the polish but with the compound then check your results.

Once you have achieved the swirl free finish you want to go and polish the area again with you polish and a polishing pad or a finishing pad. This step will greatly enhance the gloss and clarity of the paint.

Once you have finsihed polishing the paint you will now want to seal the paint with your paint selant. Apply a very thin layer over then enitre car then remove.


Make sure you are using quality MF towels that are very thick and soft.

When washing make sure you are using a good wash mitt or a very clean boars hair brush like you have stated. You also what to make sure you have a wash bucket and a rinse bucket with grit guards in each bucket.

When drying be sure to use the blotting or patting technique along with a flooding or pooling technique with the hose to remove as much water from the surface prior to drying. If you want you can use a leaf blower to dry your car and have have to touch the paint when drying.

[allenk4]

I think there may be confusion about the difference between polish and a Last Step Protectant (LSP).

The Griot's #3 Polish is a diminishing abrasive (DAT) that is designed to for with a buffer to remove minor paint defects such as light swirls. It is not an LSP. Because it is a DAT polish, it has to be worked until the larger abrasive grit breaks down into smaller grit, so that it will finish out "LSP Ready".

Never heard or read about someone mixing sealant with a separate polish in a "Home Brew".

There are products that are designed to be used as you did. These products are called All-in-Ones (AIO's). If you are interested in polishing and sealing in one step, I have experienced good results with Klasse AIO (http://www.autogeek.net/klasalpolsea.html) It is not expensive and is easy to use properly.

If your Yukon is like mine...you do NOT have soft paint.

I believe you just didn't work the Griot's #3 Polish long enough for it to do it's job. Do a search on this site on how to do a Test Spot and review the attached information on how to use the Griot's #3 polish Griot's Garage Machine Polish 3, Griots Garage Auto Polish, Griots car polish, swirl remover (http://www.autogeek.net/griots-machine-polish-3.html) . If you want to try a different polish, I have used Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover (WGTSR) (http://www.autogeek.net/wolfgang-total-swirl-remover.html) with very good results. I used a white pad on a DA. WGTSR uses DAT, so you have to work it until the abrasives breakdown, leaving an LSP ready finish.

After you are done polishing the paint....then use your LSP of choice...separately. I have Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant (http://www.autogeek.net/wolfgang-paint-sealant-sample.html)on my Yukon and have been very happy with the ease of use, appearance and the durability of the product. I put a layer of Wolfgang Fuzion on top of the WGDGPS. 3oz sample available for $6.99 will be plenty for your SUV. Follow directions and apply very thin for best results.

The attached directions for the Griot's #3 suggests that it be followed with Best In Show Wax. Do not purchase this wax. In my experience it is difficult to remove, even when applied thinly

[allenk4]

Many on this site have suggested that to avoid scratches; a boar's hair brush must be soaked for 20-30 minutes to soften up before being used to wash.

I have not used a brush on my Yukon. I prefer the Carpro Merino Wool Wash Mitt (http://www.autogeek.net/carpro-wool-wash-mitt.html)

[allenk4]

"3oz sample available for $6.99 will be plenty for your SUV"

Referring to sample of WGDGPS at $6.99

3oz sample of Fuzion (http://www.autogeek.net/wolfgang-fuzion-wax-sample.html) is $59.99

[Krindgen]

Thanks all. I think the rushing to get done was just an anxious mistake.

I agree on the Best of Show, too difficuot to work with.

I was also suspicious of my drying towel, it's an AutoZone made product and seems a little harsh to me. I do use the jelly Blade, first, but the towel seems coarse. Same with some of my MFs, I have a bunch, some from Griot's, but some from AZ and maybe I should use those for dusting in the house. I don't think all are created equal.
Think I'll just do the test spot with the Griot's #3 and sue the light to make sure I don't have the swirls.

[Evan.J]

Thanks all. I think the rushing to get done was just an anxious mistake.

I agree on the Best of Show, too difficuot to work with.

I was also suspicious of my drying towel, it's an AutoZone made product and seems a little harsh to me. I do use the jelly Blade, first, but the towel seems coarse. Same with some of my MFs, I have a bunch, some from Griot's, but some from AZ and maybe I should use those for dusting in the house. I don't think all are created equal.
Think I'll just do the test spot with the Griot's #3 and sue the light to make sure I don't have the swirls.

I think you need to get a guzzler drying towel or get a leaf blower and blow dry your vehicle.

I think that the jelly blade is a dangerous tool to use. If any dirt get trapped in the blade your going to get scratches. If its not new and not perfectly smooth whats to say the blade it self won't scratch the paint.

I would get yourself some quality plush Microfiber towels that are good to use on paint.

[Krindgen]

Not to jinx myself, but I think I’ve got it “fixed” for now. The pics don’t show total justice as there are a few swirls left. But all in all the paint is much more even throughout. This was the result of about a 4 hour effort yesterday. Here’s what I did.

First off, I got rid of the boar’s hair brush, I only used it this wash for the wheels. I got a good, soft, MF-fleece wash mitt, along with some good quality Megs high-polymer wash solution. Washed the car a section at a time, with two buckets. I changed the rinse water half way through.

After washing, I used the leaf blower to get the majority of the water off. Got rid of the AZ wash towel, and went back to my synthetic chamois, and finished the drying to eliminate most of the water spots.

After drying, I hit all the black vinyl and rubber with the Mother’s conditioner to limit the amount of cleanup I would need to do. Really didn’t need to do any when I was finished.

I did not clay. Last time I tried it on this vehicle, I could not get the clay to slide no matter how much lube I used.

Then, I did a couple test spots on the hood, tape down the middle. First I did Griot’s #3 Polish v. Megs Cleaner Wax. I really didn’t see much difference, on the hood at least. Still had some little, errant scratches, no halos. So I went down to the Griot’s #2, and still not a lot of difference between the Megs cleaner wax and the Griot’s #2. I tried some leftover Megs Swirl Remover, and that didn’t work very well, it was an old bottle and I did not like the way it worked on the paint, sort of splotchy application and I couldn’t get it even on the test spot.

Keep in mind, this paint already had one coat of my home brew Griot’s Paint Sealant.#3 Polish on it that was two weeks old.

So I decide to go with the Megs cleaner wax, liking the idea of applying to the wholec car, then wiping. I applied with the Griot’s DA. For most of the car I used speed setting 3-4. By the end I was increasing to 5-6.

I’m happy with the results, but still want to make another application or two to increase depth and get rid of the remaining swirls.

I’m thinking of finishing the 3-step Megs process, deep crystal polish, then carnuba over top, or something a little more durable. I’m dying to try the Poorboy’s or Klasse products just not sure if thowe would be the best for what I’ve completed so far.

Opinions on best next steps?

[ponypower5.0]

Not to jinx myself, but I think I’ve got it “fixed” for now. The pics don’t show total justice as there are a few swirls left. But all in all the paint is much more even throughout. This was the result of about a 4 hour effort yesterday. Here’s what I did.

First off, I got rid of the boar’s hair brush, I only used it this wash for the wheels. I got a good, soft, MF-fleece wash mitt, along with some good quality Megs high-polymer wash solution. Washed the car a section at a time, with two buckets. I changed the rinse water half way through.

After washing, I used the leaf blower to get the majority of the water off. Got rid of the AZ wash towel, and went back to my synthetic chamois, and finished the drying to eliminate most of the water spots.

After drying, I hit all the black vinyl and rubber with the Mother’s conditioner to limit the amount of cleanup I would need to do. Really didn’t need to do any when I was finished.

I did not clay. Last time I tried it on this vehicle, I could not get the clay to slide no matter how much lube I used.

Then, I did a couple test spots on the hood, tape down the middle. First I did Griot’s #3 Polish v. Megs Cleaner Wax. I really didn’t see much difference, on the hood at least. Still had some little, errant scratches, no halos. So I went down to the Griot’s #2, and still not a lot of difference between the Megs cleaner wax and the Griot’s #2. I tried some leftover Megs Swirl Remover, and that didn’t work very well, it was an old bottle and I did not like the way it worked on the paint, sort of splotchy application and I couldn’t get it even on the test spot.

Keep in mind, this paint already had one coat of my home brew Griot’s Paint Sealant.#3 Polish on it that was two weeks old.

So I decide to go with the Megs cleaner wax, liking the idea of applying to the wholec car, then wiping. I applied with the Griot’s DA. For most of the car I used speed setting 3-4. By the end I was increasing to 5-6.

I’m happy with the results, but still want to make another application or two to increase depth and get rid of the remaining swirls.

I’m thinking of finishing the 3-step Megs process, deep crystal polish, then carnuba over top, or something a little more durable. I’m dying to try the Poorboy’s or Klasse products just not sure if thowe would be the best for what I’ve completed so far.

Opinions on best next steps?

Looking good!! And you are refining the washing process which is important to avoid inducing scratches and undoing all of your hard work. As mentioned above, scrap the jelly blade. I would discontinue using the chamois as well, for the same reason. If a spot is missed during washing or some dust/grit lands on the paint prior to or during drying, it can scratch the paint. The chamois has no nap for any of the dirt to be pulled into, so the chamois grinds the dirt against the paint. When I dry a vehicle, I use an instant detailer as a drying agent. It lubes the surface to help minimize the chance of inducing any swirls or scratches. A good waffle weave or regular microfiber towel is an excellent choice after blow-drying the vehicle.

The clay not gliding across the paint intrigues me as I've never had this issue. What are you using for lube and are you using enough?

[Krindgen]

I was using all Mother's claying products, the detailer, etc. Or I may have been using Griot's clay with Mother's quik detailer. I did not try claying this time, maybe should have.

Should I clay before my next application?

[ponypower5.0]

I was using all Mother's claying products, the detailer, etc. Or I may have been using Griot's clay with Mother's quik detailer. I did not try claying this time, maybe should have.

Should I clay before my next application?

If the paint has never been clayed, it probably needs it. Are you familiar with the baggie test? With a plastic sandwich baggie over your hand, gently rub the clean paint and feel for any grittiness. The baggie increases your finger's sensitivity. If their are bonded contaminants on the paint, some of the contaminants can break loose and inflict more scratches as you are trying to correct the paint.

The clay and lube you're using are fine. Use lots of lube. You want the clay to float or "hydroplane" over the surface. Use just enough pressure to hold the clay as it doesn't require much pressure to "shave" the contaminants off of the paint.

Hope that helps!

[Krindgen]

I finally got back to this car. Along the way I did find out why my first claying went so badly - I was using an unmarked bottle of Griot's rinseless wash thinking it was detail spray. I have a Sharpie now.

I've also taken the advice and left nothing to chance, watched some Junkman YT, bought a cheap blower and Guzzler for drying, foam gun with wash, two grit guards, bought some good 5.5in Hex Logic polish and finish pads, and some Griot's paint sealant.

My plan is to polish to remove remaining swirls, then maybe apply a layer of Megs glaze, and then the Griot's sealant again since I had good luck with that in my first experience.

I've also done a quick claying - and correct, the paint did need a claying. The baggy test told me a lot and one pass with a white turned light brown piece of clay told me it was necessary.

[ponypower5.0]

AND... your addiction begins! :buffing:

The Meg's glaze will probably be unnecessary since you're removing the swirls and polishing the paint. Besides, Meg's glaze was developed for single stage paint so you may see little to no difference in a base coat/clear coat finish.

Have fun!