Clear Coat Failure or Water Spot Damage

[bmwstephen]

Having a hard time identifying the paint type on my car. I believe it is single stage if it is factory paint but the paint damage makes me question it.

I tried claying the damage in pic 1 and there were no improvement. I thought it was clear coat failure I thought clear coat failure would resemble the chalky texture in pic 2

Pic 1
http://i.imgur.com/SMGUdLc.jpg

Pic 2
http://i.imgur.com/3oU6YuW.jpg

Anyone with experience can chime in?

[erichaley]

It looks to me like water spot(s). Especially if its single stage like you mention.

[Setec Astronomy]

The hood looks like bird-poop damage to me. The bumper has CC failure.

[erichaley]

The hood looks like bird-poop damage to me. The bumper has CC failure.

:facepalm:

I should have said "doesn't look like CC failure", since that's what I meant... LOL

[bmwstephen]

:facepalm:

I should have said "doesn't look like CC failure", since that's what I meant... LOL

seriously. now that you mentioned bird poop that's more depressing! =( jk lol

is bird poop correctable?

[Setec Astronomy]

is bird poop correctable?

Not that one.

[bmwstephen]

Not that one.

I've tried doing some researching on the issue. indeed it is bird poop but a lot of the consensus seems that it is irreparable with clear coat finishes but how about single stage? would you say the damage is down to the primer.

[Mike Phillips]

The bird dropping is the Type II Bird Dropping I show pictures of and describe in my article on this topic and even with single stage paint, by the time you compound it till you've chased the cracks in the paint till they bottom out you're likely going to hit primer.

Of couse you can always try. The sinking feeling in your heart if you make a mistake, espeically right them by the BMW badge where everyone looks is hard to describe.


Two Types of Bird Dropping Etchings (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/24924-two-types-bird-dropping-etchings.html)


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Two Types of Bird Dropping Etchings

Type I Bird Dropping - Topical Stain Etching
Type II Bird Dropping - Fractured/Wrinkled Etching


There are two common types of damage associated with bird dropping etchings;



Type I Bird Dropping - Topical Stain Etching
Type I Topical Stain Etchings are usually only topical, that is shallow enough that they can be completely removed or at least greatly improved to the point where they are difficult to see.

This type of etching can be removed using a clear coat safe compound or polish by hand or machine. Hand removal is almost always more efficient as you can exert more pressure to a small area and thus keep your work area isolated to just the affected area. By machine you can use a Spot Repair System, again to keep the work area isolated to just the affected area.

Photo courtesy of MeguiarsOnline.com
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/797/M105RemoveBirdDropping002c.jpg


Type II Bird Dropping - Fractured/Wrinkled Etching
Type II Wrinkled Etchings are usually too deep to fix safely. The problem is the paint fractures, (splits apart in tiny lines,), or wrinkles as the paint swells and bunches together. In both instances, the resulting defect is throughout the clear layer of paint and not topical. Thus trying to remove it will require removing so much clear paint that you will likely expose the basecoat, or colored layer of paint which has a dull appearance. For this reason it's not safe to try to remove a Type II Bird Dropping Wrinkled or Fractured Etching.

Photo courtesy of AutogeekOnline.com
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/719/BirdDroppingEtchingWrinkles.jpg


:)

[Mike Phillips]

The problem you show in this picture is the age old problem of urethane/flexible body parts.

From my understanding, the paint on these parts just doesn't last as long as the paint on the rigid body panels due to the flex agent added to the paint to counter the flexible characteristic of these types of parts.

What I see is cracking or fissures in the paint caused by flexing and paint failure over time. This is just one more reason I gravitate towards classics made without plastic.

http://i.imgur.com/3oU6YuW.jpg


Anotherreallyl common problem with urethane parts is the fading that takes place to the basecoat. I can't count how many C4 Corvettes I've seen or worked on in my life where the urethane parts a a few shades lighter than the rest of the body panels andbecausee the basecoat, (the faded part), is under the clear coat, no amount of buffing with any company's products will undo the damage.


Try compounding orpolishingg the bird dropping etching a little and you should be able to improve it at least a little. Looks like the entire car might be ready for some detail work.


:)

[bmwstephen]

The problem you show in this picture is the age old problem of urethane/flexible body parts.

From my understanding, the paint on these parts just doesn't last as long as the paint on the rigid body panels due to the flex agent added to the paint to counter the flexible characteristic of these types of parts.

What I see is cracking or fissures in the paint caused by flexing and paint failure over time. This is just one more reason I gravitate towards classics made without plastic.

http://i.imgur.com/3oU6YuW.jpg


Anotherreallyl common problem with urethane parts is the fading that takes place to the basecoat. I can't count how many C4 Corvettes I've seen or worked on in my life where the urethane parts a a few shades lighter than the rest of the body panels andbecausee the basecoat, (the faded part), is under the clear coat, no amount of buffing with any company's products will undo the damage.


Try compounding orpolishingg the bird dropping etching a little and you should be able to improve it at least a little. Looks like the entire car might be ready for some detail work.


:)

Thanks Mike! Indeed it is way overdue for a full detail but I'm tackling it one step at a time due because the car is all original including the single stage paint. In fact, I purchased it because I learned to love SS paint through your research and teachings in this forum.

Could you elaborate on the inherent issues of flex additive and paint? Are you saying that they make the paint less reliable over time?

The bumpers will get resprayed to urethane SS regardless to match with the rest of the car. For some cost cutting reasons, BMW decided to paint their black bumpers with b/c despite the rest of the car being SS as a cost cutting measure in the early 90's as they began switching to b/c

[Setec Astronomy]

Could you elaborate on the inherent issues of flex additive and paint? Are you saying that they make the paint less reliable over time?

I'm not disagreeing with Mike but I have seen a lot of painted plastic mirror housings and spoilers, which are hard and presumably don't have/require a flex additive, have the CC fail before the rest of the car. My theory is simply that these plastic parts have much lower thermal conductivity than metal parts, so when they get baked in the sun the heat can't dissipate through the part like it would with metal, so the paint gets hotter and fails sooner.

As Mike noted, once they started to use the urethane bumper inserts and covers starting with the 5 MPH bumpers in the 70's, this problem of the bumpers fading differently than the rest of the car started. But today, the bumpers are all integrated into the bodywork, with huge flexible sections...I don't know what they are doing at the factory, but our bodyshop-guy members ought to know if you have a late model car whether they are spraying the flexible portions with different paint.

[bmwstephen]

I'm not disagreeing with Mike but I have seen a lot of painted plastic mirror housings and spoilers, which are hard and presumably don't have/require a flex additive, have the CC fail before the rest of the car. My theory is simply that these plastic parts have much lower thermal conductivity than metal parts, so when they get baked in the sun the heat can't dissipate through the part like it would with metal, so the paint gets hotter and fails sooner.

As Mike noted, once they started to use the urethane bumper inserts and covers starting with the 5 MPH bumpers in the 70's, this problem of the bumpers fading differently than the rest of the car started. But today, the bumpers are all integrated into the bodywork, with huge flexible sections...I don't know what they are doing at the factory, but our bodyshop-guy members ought to know if you have a late model car whether they are spraying the flexible portions with different paint.

that is a very good observation. my spoiler, mirrors, and bumpers (all plastic parts) exhibit paint failure/damage a lot faster than the rest of the car

[Mike Phillips]

Thanks Mike! Indeed it is way overdue for a full detail but I'm tackling it one step at a time due because the car is all original including the single stage paint.

In fact, I purchased it because I learned to love SS paint through your research and teachings in this forum.



That's very nice of you to say... I too love working on single stage paint, it's my favorite detailing related project next to wetsanding, cutting and buffing cool cars.




Could you elaborate on the inherent issues of flex additive and paint? Are you saying that they make the paint less reliable over time?


I can't elaborate much as I'm not a painter. But from what I've seen, the paint used on flexible urethane parts does not hold up as long or as well as normal body parts when the car in question is exposed to the sun and the elements.





The bumpers will get resprayed to urethane SS regardless to match with the rest of the car. For some cost cutting reasons, BMW decided to paint their black bumpers with b/c despite the rest of the car being SS as a cost cutting measure in the early 90's as they began switching to b/c



Could be.

I've been told that the add-on parts to car bodies, like spoilers, the front and rear valance or aerodynamic skirting, etc are sometimes supplied by outside vendors and they use different types/brands of paint than what the actual car is painted with on the assembly line.


:)