M105

[BrianMcLeod]

I have a flex 3401 and using the yellow smart foam pad to get out the swirls out of a 2006 dodge truck I tried a small part and it seems like it is not getting them out. And using m105
help please?

[Pureshine]

Are putting enough pressure and making enough passes?

[tuscarora dave]

You'll probably have better luck using an orange pad.

The cells in the yellow pads are so large that a great percentage of the abrasives absorb into the pad beneath the surface of the foam and aren't really being worked against the paint.

With an orange pad, the foam is much more dense with much smaller cells in the foam and more abrasives stay between the pad and the paint getting more work done. As the M-105 dries and seems to be done working, mist a light mist of water on the panel and go back over the area without adding additional product to the pad. This should give you a few extra section passes and increase the bite of the abrasives in the remaining M-105.

Give this a shot and report back in your thread as to how it worked out.

[BrianMcLeod]

Thanks it worked really well does this work on all cars? Here are some pics and a video

20735

20736

20737

[sharpreflection]

You'll probably have better luck using an orange pad.

The cells in the yellow pads are so large that a great percentage of the abrasives absorb into the pad beneath the surface of the foam and aren't really being worked against the paint.

With an orange pad, the foam is much more dense with much smaller cells in the foam and more abrasives stay between the pad and the paint getting more work done. As the M-105 dries and seems to be done working, mist a light mist of water on the panel and go back over the area without adding additional product to the pad. This should give you a few extra section passes and increase the bite of the abrasives in the remaining M-105.

Give this a shot and report back in your thread as to how it worked out.

exactly! perfect advise. also make sure you are not moving to fast.

[BrianMcLeod]

How many passes should it take and I'm you speed 5

[cleanmycorolla]

How many passes should it take and I'm you speed 5

However many to take the defects out.

[DogRescuer]

You'll probably have better luck using an orange pad.

The cells in the yellow pads are so large that a great percentage of the abrasives absorb into the pad beneath the surface of the foam and aren't really being worked against the paint.

With an orange pad, the foam is much more dense with much smaller cells in the foam and more abrasives stay between the pad and the paint getting more work done. As the M-105 dries and seems to be done working, mist a light mist of water on the panel and go back over the area without adding additional product to the pad. This should give you a few extra section passes and increase the bite of the abrasives in the remaining M-105.

Give this a shot and report back in your thread as to how it worked out.
Can I ask, what does the water do?

[Mike Phillips]

Can I ask, what does the water do?


re-wets or re-liquefies the product for more working time.

Remember, M105 is a SMAT product, the abrasives don't break down in the same way that the abrasives in DAT products break down.

:)

[tuscarora dave]

Thanks it worked really well does this work on all cars? Here are some pics and a video

20735

20736

20737

Great!! I'm glad it worked out for you.

Dodge clear coat can be pretty hard so it's best to have the abrasives and the pad combined doing the work more so than just the pad. The LC yellow pad is good for cutting single stage paint or gel coat with heavy oxidation while using lots of product (working wet) because the large cells give the oxidation a place to go as you work the pad and product against the paint. As you've experienced the yellow pad doesn't work all that great on clear coat.


Can I ask, what does the water do?

M-105 has a pretty short working cycle before the solvents and polishing oils flash off, though it has very sharp and hard non diminishing abrasives in it that outlast the liquids in the product.

On a properly primed pad as you work it against the paint you'll get to the end of the working cycle where the natural oils and solvents in the M-105 flash off or evaporate. When this occurs you get pretty much a dry buff situation going on where it's seemingly just the pad itself working against the paint. At the end of this working cycle although the solvents and polishing oils have evaporated, there are a lot of good sharp abrasives that have worked there way up into the pad's foam and away from the surface of the pad and away from the surface of the paint.

The mist of water on the panel serves a few different purposes actually.

1. When you mist the water on the panel and begin to rework the area with the polisher, the water tends to dislodge, detach or wash a portion of the still good abrasives back out of the cells of the foam and puts them back between the pad and the paint for another few section passes. The amount of water used will be subjective to the amount of product that's still being stored up and away from the paint in the foam pad's cells. The more product that's loaded up in the pad after M-105's natural solvents and polishing oils have evaporated, the more water can be misted on the panel and subsequently the longer you can work these unspent abrasives against the paint and achieve a few extra section passes of cutting with them.

This use of "supplemental wetting agents" (KBM) can only go so far until the useful abrasives are used up before the need to clean the pad and add more product arises.

2. M-105 has a certain amount of oils and solvents in it right out of the bottle so as you compound the work section with a pad freshly primed with M-105 you have these oils and solvents working in combination with the abrasives and the cutting ability of the pad's foam structure. These oils and solvents tend to lubricate the surface being worked by the pad and abrasives (as designed). If you're adding too much product to the pad initially, the abrasives will be hyper-lubricated until some of the liquids can be worked until their evaporation occurs in which you go from hyper-lubricated to lubricated and as the product is worked past it's intended working cycle, to a dry buff situation.

Now you add the "supplemental wetting agent" (water) and you bring a bunch of abrasives back out of the pad's foam and against the paint, but now you are using water as the lubricating factor rather than oils and solvents. While water can be considered a lubricant to a degree, it's certainly not as good a lubricant as oil. As such, now you have all these super sharp, non-diminishing micro abrasives working between the pad and the paint in a suspension of water rather than the more lubricating oils found in the bottle of M-105.

Being that you now have the less lubricating water/abrasive slurry working between the pad and the paint, the abrasives can engage the paint more efficiently and the end result is better bite, or more cut albeit for a short working window.

When working on really hard clear, this short working window of bionic abrading action can be a huge time saver, not to mention making use of good abrasives that would have otherwise been brushed off of the pad and onto the floor to be swept up after the job is completed.

It's just a smart way of making the best use of what you have to work with and takes some practice to get the amounts and working times dialed in. It can be a lot deeper than what I've been able to explain in this reply. If you want the deeper, more intelligent version, do some research on "the Kevin Brown Method" and "supplemental wetting agents".

[c8n]

Just had a brain fart... wondering if using M07 or even M205 as the supplemental wetting agent be better than just plain old water...

[tuscarora dave]

If you reread what I've written, paying particular attention to the lubricating abitities between oil and water as it pertains to this particular topic, you'll see that using an oily product such as 07 or 205 will serve to hyper lubricate thus decreasing the abrasives ability to cut and adding to the total time needed to achieve the cutting of the defects in the paint, not to mention factoring in the added expense of those products. Now you're working less efficiently which to me is working backwards.

You'll add working time to the compound while diminishing it's ability to cut efficiently. Might as well just buy UC and forget about the "supplemental wetting agents" topic all together. It'd be a cheaper way of taking longer to finish the job.

[tuscarora dave]

Here are some pics and a video



Where is the video?:poke:

[KillaCam]

Dave's advice is spot on. Thanks for taking the time to write that out! Once you get the hang of M105 it's a great compound.

[BrianMcLeod]

I thought you could post videos I guess not lol when I'm done with the truck ill post some pics

When I mist the water on it slings am I misting to much on?