Looking for feedback on first polisher + accessories

[olenderc]

So I don't want to ramble on forever but ideally I'd like to pull the trigger on a new polisher and supplies by the end of tonight and maybe take advantage of the 20% off deal. Car I'll be polishing is my daily driver, 2013 Subaru WRX (in possession since 12/7/12). Paint in pretty good shape, few/minor swirls, one scratch (pics: http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/68348-what-my-options-scratch-chip.html).

Polisher/Bundle: Griot’s Garage Random Orbital Complete Polishing Kit (http://www.autogeek.net/griots-garage-machine-polishing-kit.html)

Griot's Garage 6" DA


not a fan of the other bundles, they offer stuff I won't really need or polishes I don't want to use
figure the brinkmann will be useful as well as the pad cleaner/brush
would be nice if I could replace the 6.5" pads with 5.5" ones; I'd prefer not to have to pay extra for these but can't really "make your own" bundle
also not sure if this GG bundle includes the backing plate (6 in)?
thinking of also buying a 5" backing plate and 3" backing plate

Polishes/Product: honestly there are too many to choose from and I end up reading one review and think I've found the best product; then I'll read another review and think "well hold on now", this sounds better. I've narrowed it down to M101 for heavier defects (though, I hope I won't really have to use this on a new car/paint?) and M205 for my final polish. Then I want to use DP Coating Prep Polish to clean/prep for wax, sealant, or coating (haven't really decided what to go with here). Let me know if this is all I'll need or convince me otherwise to add/replace something.

Pads: Also another area where I'm left overwhelmed by options and opinions. I've narrowed it down to Lake Country Hydro-Tech Pads (5" x 7/8" pads; I think the 5" pads only come in low profile?). This also assumes I'm getting the 5" and 3" backing plate.

5 inch pads:


2 x Cyan (or should I only get 1 here and 4 tangerine because of my relatively good quality of paint?)
3 x Tangerine
1 x Crimson

I like the HT system because it narrows it down to 3 types of pads, rather than a dozen other different styles which seems like overkill. Should I bother with the 3" backing plate and get an additional 3-pack of 3" HT pads (1 of each color)?

Thoughts? Am I missing anything? Does it look solidly composed where I can complete a full detail from start to finish with no other products?

Currently already have:


ONR to wash the car (should I get something stronger to cleanse paint before a full detail like this? Are there better options?)
Speedy Prep Towel to clay w/ DP clay lube
Duragloss 601 + Duragloss 105 + Duragloss 951

instead of waxing with 601/105 I've been highly contemplating DP Paint Coating or maybe Optimum Opti-Seal (which I would have to buy), thoughts?



Thanks for reading, I hope I've made this as clear and concise as possible without leaving anything necessary out. Looking forward to hearing your opinions and advice.

[swanicyouth]

Your not missing much, but M101 may be a little to strong for what your trying to do, and M205 doesn't always finish perfectly on soft paint. For a great combo that is very easy to use I like the Wolfgang Twin Polishes. They are much more noob friendly IMO.

Hydrotechs are good pads, but you can also make your cut more agreesive with a more aggressive pad, that's why I like the CCS pads or flat pads, because you can use a yellow pad for a bad spot, and an orange pad for the rest of the car - all with the same polish.

Then you can use a white pad for finishing polish. They grey/black pad is good for paint cleaners/glazes and the red pad for LSPs.

But Hydrotechs are probably easier if you want to keep it simple. You will get a good 6" backing plate with the GG6. Likely you will need at least some smaller pads for some smaller areas. Of course, for each pad size you get you need the right backing plate.

[olenderc]

Your not missing much, but M101 may be a little to strong for what your trying to do, and M205 doesn't always finish perfectly on soft paint. For a great combo that is very easy to use I like the Wolfgang Twin Polishes. They are much more noob friendly IMO.

Hydrotechs are good pads, but you can also make your cut more agreesive with a more aggressive pad, that's why I like the CCS pads or flat pads, because you can use a yellow pad for a bad spot, and an orange pad for the rest of the car - all with the same polish.

Then you can use a white pad for finishing polish. They grey/black pad is good for paint cleaners/glazes and the red pad for LSPs.

But Hydrotechs are probably easier if you want to keep it simple. You will get a good 6" backing plate with the GG6. Likely you will need at least some smaller pads for some smaller areas. Of course, for each pad size you get you need the right backing plate.

With regard to the WG twins, I thought the last step acts as a glaze to hide blemishes (or maybe that's just some confusion in the naming)? I'd rather not hide or pretend I have no swirls or blemishes. Preferably I'd rather have my final finish to be near perfect and not just a mirage that can be wiped away with a solution of IPA. This all may be my misunderstanding so correct me if I am wrong.

Also, pad-wise, I just don't want to spend a fortune all at once for so many pads. I just want enough of what I'll need to do my car for now. I can buy more pads in the future, when they become needed. I figured being limited to 3 designs I can accomplish everything anyone else would be able to with other pads. Preferably I'd rather not have to buy more than 6 pads on top of the 3 that already come with the bundle.

[custmsprty]

That 20% deal doesn't apply to polishers.

[olenderc]

That 20% deal doesn't apply to polishers.

Yeah, I realized that, figured it would at least go towards supplies and such.

[custmsprty]

Yeah buy the polisher and do the supplies separately. But some of those combo kits might save just as much as 20% too.

I've been raelly happy with the PC, great polisher for the money. And for a hobbyist it's just right.

[olenderc]

Yeah buy the polisher and do the supplies separately. But some of those combo kits might save just as much as 20% too.

I've been raelly happy with the PC, great polisher for the money. And for a hobbyist it's just right.

I was originally thinking the PC, but for maybe 10-20 more I could have the GG and figure you get a lot more polishing power for the money. Not sure if that's the best way to think about it, but seems like people are happier with the GG, not to say the PC isn't a good machine as well.

[lazyjet]

since the bundle already comes with an orange and white CCS pads maybe you can just add to that with the same color CCS pads.

Orange and white have been the ones i mainly use from that line and some times the grey/black pads.
Lake Country 6.5 Inch CCS Pads 6 Pack - Your Choice! (http://www.autogeek.net/lake-country-ccs-6pack.html)
2 x orange
2 x white
2 x grey

The orange pads should have more then enough cut for soft subaru paints.

Start off with white pad and M205, if you need more correction power use an orange pad :dblthumb2:

could also get the 4" spot buff kit to add on for the tight areas
CCS Spot Buffs 4 Inch Foam Pad Kit (http://www.autogeek.net/spot-buff-kit.html)

Ill also suggest Menzerna FG-400 as a compound if you have some really deep scratches. Has a great cut but also finishes very well some times LSP ready if not a quick hit over with M205 and grey or white pad should do the trick

[Mike Phillips]

Car I'll be polishing is my daily driver, 2013 Subaru WRX (in possession since 12/7/12). Paint in pretty good shape, few/minor swirls, one scratch


Griot's Garage 6" DA


not a fan of the other bundles, they offer stuff I won't really need or polishes I don't want to use
figure the brinkmann will be useful as well as the pad cleaner/brush
would be nice if I could replace the 6.5" pads with 5.5" ones; I'd prefer not to have to pay extra for these but can't really "make your own" bundle
also not sure if this GG bundle includes the backing plate (6 in)?
thinking of also buying a 5" backing plate and 3" backing plate



The Griot's comes with it's own Griot's backing plate and it's actually a really nice plate but it's 6" in diameter so it won't work with 5.5" pads.

See my article here, it's exactly for this issue... it has pictures and links to the store to get just want you want. (that's how I write all my articles, to make it easy for your)

5 inch Backing Plates on Meguiar's, Griot's and Porter Cable DA Polishers (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-tools-accessories/48668-5-inch-backing-plates-meguiar-s-griot-s-porter-cable-da-polishers.html)








Polishes/Product: honestly there are too many to choose from and I end up reading one review and think I've found the best product; then I'll read another review and think "well hold on now", this sounds better. I've narrowed it down to M101 for heavier defects (though, I hope I won't really have to use this on a new car/paint?) and M205 for my final polish. Then I want to use DP Coating Prep Polish to clean/prep for wax, sealant, or coating (haven't really decided what to go with here). Let me know if this is all I'll need or convince me otherwise to add/replace something.




Like mentioned, the M101 is probably overkill for what you want. If you want an aggressive compound for spot repair, get a bottel of Ultimate Compound or the 8 ounce bottle of M105.

M205 works great on most paint systems but with DA Polishers on soft paint systems it can leave micro-marring in the paint, this are small scratches that some people also call tick marks or DA Haze. This topic came up this week here, please read the thread and look at the purdy pictures and in it I also included links to articles that explain and define micro-marring.


http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tricks-tips-techniques/68779-need-advice-polishing-black-car.html


There are also recomendations in the above thread for polishes that work well on soft paint with dual action polishers that don't leave micro-marring.





Pads: Also another area where I'm left overwhelmed by options and opinions. I've narrowed it down to Lake Country Hydro-Tech Pads (5" x 7/8" pads; I think the 5" pads only come in low profile?). This also assumes I'm getting the 5" and 3" backing plate.

5 inch pads:


2 x Cyan (or should I only get 1 here and 4 tangerine because of my relatively good quality of paint?)
3 x Tangerine
1 x Crimson
I like the HT system because it narrows it down to 3 types of pads, rather than a dozen other different styles which seems like overkill. Should I bother with the 3" backing plate and get an additional 3-pack of 3" HT pads (1 of each color)?



Hydro-Tech pads are very good pads for DA Polishers and you actually want thin pads for DA Polisers. I explain all this in my how-to book in detail.

If your car's paint is soft and the forum consensu on Subaru paint is that it is soft, then you will likely make better use of more polishing pads than cutting pads but it's good to have both.

Hydro-Tech pads are closed cell and CCS and Flat pads in the Lake Country line are open cell, the primary difference is the open cell foam will last longer than closed cell foam and because the membrane connecting the cell wall structures are blown out, they are easier to wash. (I cover this in my how to book also, it's very in-depth).






Thoughts? Am I missing anything? Does it look solidly composed where I can complete a full detail from start to finish with no other products?

Currently already have:


ONR to wash the car (should I get something stronger to cleanse paint before a full detail like this? Are there better options?)
Speedy Prep Towel to clay w/ DP clay lube
Duragloss 601 + Duragloss 105 + Duragloss 951

instead of waxing with 601/105 I've been highly contemplating DP Paint Coating or maybe Optimum Opti-Seal (which I would have to buy), thoughts?

Thanks for reading, I hope I've made this as clear and concise as possible without leaving anything necessary out. Looking forward to hearing your opinions and advice.



ONR is fine to wash the car, any compounding or polishing is going to remove whatever ONR doesn't remove.

Speedy Prep Towel is great but it can marr the paint, no problem since you're going to machine polish it anyway.

If you're going to go with Duragloss and you've already compounded and/ or polished the paitn then go with the #111 it's non-abrasive, pure protection which is what you want. I like this product, looks good, lasts a long time, beads water like a son of a gun.

DP Paint Coating Prep and Paint Sealant also work really well from what I've seen each time I've used it now...






Lots of choices but that's better than limited choices. In my how-to boko for people new to machine polishing I recommend the Lake Country 5.5" Flat pads as they are the easiest to learn how to use plus wash out and rinse. Plus this type of foam lasts a long time.


Check out these results from the basecoat/clearcoat finish we applied the DP coating to last week...


Video: Overspray & Swirl Removal + Detailer's Paint Coating - 1965 Mustang (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/68795-video-overspray-swirl-removal-detailer-s-paint-coating-1965-mustang.html)Here's the walk-around video I took of Shawn's 1965 Mustang. Note I took a video before we worked on it and then after on it showing the results.

In the before video I rub my hand on the paint and you can really hear how bad the overspray is. In the after video I rub the same section and there's not a sound to be heard.





Overspray & Swirl Removal + Detailer's Paint Coating - 1965 Mustang




Video showing Before and After



Hope that helps a little...

:)

[olenderc]

Thanks so much for the reply, you really helped clarify a lot of things.

The only reason I was thinking of going to 5.5 " pads with a 5" backing plate is because people said you lose a little power with the larger pads. However, often times this was in conjunction with the PC7424XP which is slightly less powerful than the GG 6" DA.

I wouldn't mind staying with the 6.5" pads (seeing as the package comes with a 6" backing plate and 3 x 6.5" pads already) as long as I will still have sufficient power to polish/correct my paint? Also, I think I will stay with the CCS pads since they seem to be user-friendly and last longer.

In terms of polish, I guess I'll stay away from the m205 for my softer paint and avoid the tick marks/DA haze. Seems like it would be a good choice to go with the Wolfgang twins.

With regard to your recommendation of Duragloss #111, it appears as if the durability would be less than the #105? Or at least that's what it seemed like; the product description claims 6 months durability for the #111 and 12 months for the #105. A full year for the #105 does seem like a generous number which I wouldn't realistically expect anyway. However, is your recommendation of the #111 based on better looks/glossiness at the cost of some durability (compared to the #105)? Let me know if I'm understanding what you're trying to say.

Depending on what I eventually decide, it might be a better option to go with the DP Paint Coating for even more protection/durability!

I also wanted to clarify whether I would need an additional cleanser/cleaner post-polish with the Wolfgang Finishing Glaze, such as the DP Coating Prep Polish. Or can I go right into applying whichever wax, sealant, coating I decide to go with.


***Specifically, if I do go the route of the DP Paint Coating, would there be any added benefit of easier application/bonding if I prep the paint with the DP Coating Prep Polish even after final polishing with the WG Finishing Glaze?

[Mike Phillips]

Thanks so much for the reply, you really helped clarify a lot of things.



That was the goal... I know it can get confusing with some many great products, tools and pads on the market.





The only reason I was thinking of going to 5.5 " pads with a 5" backing plate is because people said you lose a little power with the larger pads. However, often times this was in conjunction with the PC7424XP which is slightly less powerful than the GG 6" DA.

I wouldn't mind staying with the 6.5" pads (seeing as the package comes with a 6" backing plate and 3 x 6.5" pads already) as long as I will still have sufficient power to polish/correct my paint? Also, I think I will stay with the CCS pads since they seem to be user-friendly and last longer.



Here's the deal, foam absorbs and dissipates energy. A foam pad absorbs and dissipates the energy from a tool with a free spinning spindle bearing and what you see when this happens is the pad doesn't rotate or spin very well.

The Griot's has more power than the PC and the Meguiar's units and it will do a better job of rotating the 6.5" pads especially when they are still dry and not saturated with liquid from your product. Wet foam absorbs and dissipates energy better than dry foam. Pretty easy test to do for yourself by the way when you're buffing out a car.

6.5" pads are good for people new to machine polishing because they prevent a person from causing any damage to their car's paint. As you gain confidence and skill, you'll find smaller, thinner pads provide faster and more effective correction work and they also fit the designs of moder cars better.






In terms of polish, I guess I'll stay away from the m205 for my softer paint and avoid the tick marks/DA haze. Seems like it would be a good choice to go with the Wolfgang twins.



The Wolfgang Twins won't let you down. They will tackle just about any car in any driveway for what should be removed. Anything they don't remove is probably too deep and should be left alone.





With regard to your recommendation of Duragloss #111, it appears as if the durability would be less than the #105? Or at least that's what it seemed like; the product description claims 6 months durability for the #111 and 12 months for the #105. A full year for the #105 does seem like a generous number which I wouldn't realistically expect anyway. However, is your recommendation of the #111 based on better looks/glossiness at the cost of some durability (compared to the #105)? Let me know if I'm understanding what you're trying to say.




My point and suggestion was that if you decide to use a Duragloss product for your LSP then since you'll have already cleaned and polished the paint with the Wolfgang Twins, there's no need to use a product with a cleaner in it as that's what I call working backwards.

#105 has a cleaner it it, #111 does not. Here's the links to read about them,


Duragloss Total Performance Polish (TPP) # 105 (http://www.autogeek.net/duragloss-total-performance-polish.html)


Duragloss Clear Coat Polish (CCP) #111 (http://www.autogeek.net/duragloss-clear-coat-polish.html)






Depending on what I eventually decide, it might be a better option to go with the DP Paint Coating for even more protection/durability!



Very easy to use.





I also wanted to clarify whether I would need an additional cleanser/cleaner post-polish with the Wolfgang Finishing Glaze, such as the DP Coating Prep Polish. Or can I go right into applying whichever wax, sealant, coating I decide to go with.

***Specifically, if I do go the route of the DP Paint Coating, would there be any added benefit of easier application/bonding if I prep the paint with the DP Coating Prep Polish even after final polishing with the WG Finishing Glaze?


IF you use the Detailer's Paint Coating you must first chemically strip the paint from any oils or other substances left on the surface after using anything.

So "yes". If you want to use the Detailer's Paint Coating you will want to first prep the paint AFTER the Wolfgang polish by using the Detailer's Paint Coating Prep.

I show that here,


1965 Mustang GT Convertible - Detailer's Paint Coating (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/pictures-autogeek-s-car-week/68480-1965-mustang-gt-convertible-detailer-s-paint-coating.html)


And here, same process no matter if you have a basecoat/clearcoat paint system or a single stage paint system...


Detailer’s Paint Coating on Single Stage Paint (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/67950-detailer-s-paint-coating-single-stage-paint.html)



Forum member Eric aka ekennett stopped by Autogeek today while he was in town as he asked if he could test out the Flex 3401 and the Rupes Bigfoot polishers. So I have this 1932 Ford Phaeton in the studio for some work and I let him test these two polishers out on the hood of the hotrod.

After testing the polishers I let him test out the Detailer’s Coating Prep Polish by hand and machine, followed by the Detailer’s Paint Coating.

He said he would chime in later with this thoughts and I'll post some more pictures later but here's a few shots of some of the action taking place at AGO today...


Eric, aka ekennett just finished polishing the hood. Eric tried out the Flex 3401 optimized and the Rupes Bigfoot 21 optimized and I think he chose and purchased the Flex 3401 before leaving today.


Eric using the Flex 3401 Optimized and also with the Wolfgang Twins

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1957/1932_Ford_Phaeton_001.jpg


Eric using the Rupes Bigfoot 21 Optimized and also with Rupes pads and polishes

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1957/1932_Ford_Phaeton_002.jpg


He also tried out the new Detailer’s Coating Prep Polish and Detailer’s Paint Coating on this SINGLE STAGE paint system he just polished.


Eric applying Detailer's Coating Prep Polish by hand

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1957/1932_Ford_Phaeton_003.jpg



Eric applying Detailer's Coating Prep Polish by machine

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1957/1932_Ford_Phaeton_004.jpg



Eric dampening a clean, dry gold Finger Pocket with Detailer’s Paint Coating

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1957/1932_Ford_Phaeton_005.jpg


Gently applying the coating...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1957/1932_Ford_Phaeton_006.jpg


Glassy looking...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1957/1932_Ford_Phaeton_007.jpg



Thanks for your help today Eric, I hope you had fun testing out the Rupes and Flex polishers as well as the new products from Detailer's Pro Series.



:)

[olenderc]

I've done more research over the past couple days, had a chance to talk with the one and only Mike Philips for a little (thanks Mike :dblthumb2:) and have refined my first detailing kit.

DA: Griot's Garage bundle (link in first post)

Like that it comes with a Brinkmann which I hope will be useful
Not sure how useful the pad cleaner spray will be if I plan on using the small green/yellow packets of cleaner you dissolve in a bucket.
Going to see if AG will willing to swap out the CCS pads for flat LC pads


Polishes: Wolfgang Duo - Total Swirl Remover and Finishing Glaze

Pads: Deciding to go with 6.5 " LC flat pads based on Mike's recommendations and general consensus from research on the forum

I still for the life of me cannot decide on the pad color breakdown

[-]I've narrowed it down to orange, white, black
[-]For a relatively (2013) new car to be able to finish a full detail/polish from start to finish, I assume I'll need more white pads, since I shouldn't be doing much correcting work with orange, but I'm not sure if it depends on the following:
[-]Should I use TSR on orange or white pads or both depending on level of correcting needed (I would assume only white?)
[-]Would I use finishing glaze on white pads as well or would that strictly be used on black pads? (product description says soft finishing pads, but then AG demonstrates it's use on white polishing pads, just a little confused)
[-]Assuming I buy an additional 6-pack LC 6.5" flat pads, I could end up with: 4 orange, 4 white, 1 black, 1 blue (or 2 black if AG allows me to sub?) Does this sound good?


Sealing the finish: I purchased some Duragloss #105 a little while back so I figure I'll seal it in for the winter with that. Mike did say this would be working backwards since it also contains cleaners so post-Finishing Glaze it would seem redundant. However, I figure since I already have it I'll use it, and it wouldn't be adding an extra step per-se since I'd be applying it as a wax/sealant step not for the cleaning properties (does applying this on a black pad sound correct, I figure there isn't much difference between the black and blue?). Also will be applying this on top of Duragloss #601 for the added bonding potential.

I won't go the route of a "coating" since I'll be spending all this money on a detailing kit, just to seal it away for 2 years and not bring it out again. I'm also hoping to detail some friends' cars for the extra practice and maybe make a few bucks or charge them by making them buy me product/pads for their specific job :xyxthumbs: