2009 Lexus IS250 -- Beginner Paint Correction [Archive] - Auto Geek Online Auto Detailing Forum

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b0b

07-23-2013, 06:20 PM

Hello everyone. It has been exactly one year since I joined the message boards and this is my first real upload of a detail with more than a few cell phone pics. I have learned a lot from you all over this past year, and it continues to happen with each new day. So, here it goes..

Car: 2009 Lexus IS 250

Products:

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1966/products_1.jpg

Tools:

Flex 3401
LC Hybrid Flat Pads (Cyan and Tangerine)
Daytona Speed Brush and various other wheel brushes
Cobra Miracle Towels and Chinchilla towels

Here are some Before Shots

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1966/before2_1.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1966/before_14.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1966/dirtywheels_1.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1966/Prewashpaint_1.jpg

First up was the wash and wheels. For the wheels, I used Sonax. That has been my go to wheel cleaner since reading some great reviews on it. I soaked the wheels and let them sit for a few minutes and then went to town. I have never taken off a wheel to clean yet, but thats something that is soon to come. I used a Daytona Speed Master brush and the 1 inch boars hair brush to get the hard to reach areas.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1966/sonax_1.jpg

I used P21S and the two bucket method for the wash. My new mitt is the wookie mitt and so far I am really enjoying it. After that it was time to Clay. I used Pinnacle XMT Speed Clay. The baggie test was performed and as expected, the entire car needed to be clayed. I was out of QD so I picked up some Megs QD at a local store. After the car was clayed, the water spots and swirls were a little more visible.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1966/AfterClay_1.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1966/medium/swirls_1.jpg

Dirty Clay Pic

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1966/dirtyclay_1.jpg

Now it was time to do my test spot. I purchased M105 and M205 and was expecting to use that combo but I couldnt get a test spot that I was happy with using these products. I am limited in supplies so I tried some Menzerna PF2500 after the 105. The results looked great and were definitely LSP ready.

I used 6.5 inch LC flat pads. For the M105 I used the cyan pads. I used a total of 4 pads to do the compounding and did 5-6 section passes. Next, I used the 4 tangerine pads with the PF2500 and 4 section passes. Here is a picture before applying WG.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1966/prewg_1.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1966/afterpf2500_1.jpg

I finished up with Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant 3.0 and a Blue Finessing Foam Pad. The whole process took a beginner like me just over 12 hours.

Here are the after shots! Open to comments and criticism! Always wanting to learn more. Feed back please

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1966/after2_1.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1966/after_14.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1966/headlight_1.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1966/medium/cleanwheels_1.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1966/cleanwheels2_1.jpg

Before:

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1966/AfterClay_1.jpg

After:

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1966/AFTERCLOSEUP_1.jpg

Before:

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1966/fadedscratch_1.jpg

After:

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1966/fadedscratch2_1.jpg

Before:

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1966/dirtymuffler_1.jpg

After:

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1966/muffler_1.jpg

Reflections

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1966/garagereflection_1.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1966/garagereflection2_1.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1966/refelctionhouse_1.jpg

FINAL QUESTIONS:

How many pads do you usually use for a paint correction like this?

I wasnt satisfied with the muffler at all. Any recommendations for this? Products/tools/technique?

I have used the M105 and M205 combo in the past with great results, any idea why this time I couldnt get it to work for me?

Is using an AIO like PF2500 on top of M105 a bad choice? I see that it turned out nice but should I had searched for an intermediate between the two?

How many towels do you typically go through on steps like compound removal and polish removal?

LINKS :xyxthumbs:

P21S Bodywork Conditioning Shampoo (http://www.autogeek.net/p2bodconsham.html)

Sonax Wheel Cleaner (http://www.autogeek.net/sonax-wheel-cleaner.html)

DP Tire Gloss (http://www.autogeek.net/dp330.html)

Pinnacle XMT Speed Clay (http://www.autogeek.net/xmt-speed-clay-bar.html)

Meguiars Mirror Glaze 105 Ultra Cut Compound (http://www.autogeek.net/meguiars-mirror-glaze-105-ultra-cut-compound.html)

Menzerna Power Finish (PF2500) (http://www.autogeek.net/menzerna-power-finish.html)

Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant 3.0 (http://www.autogeek.net/wg5500.html)

Aquawax (http://www.autogeek.net/duragloss-aquawax--951.html)

:buffing: Thanks again for looking :buffing:

mwoolfso

07-23-2013, 07:20 PM

Pad count... at least 3.

For the exhaust tips, try 0000 steel wool and follow it with a Metal Polish like Collinite 850.

As for why 105/205 didn't work out.... it could be that you have hard paint on that Lexus, could be pad/technique, a combination of the two. My bias is that you have hard paint.

PF2500 is not an AIO, rather it is a finishing polish similar to M205. Following PF2500 with M105 was fine. Could you have found an intermediate? Sure. Menz SF4000 would fit nicely in between.

As for qty of towel typically go through on steps .... I understand why you are asking but the real question is whether or not you followed the guideline to discard a towel when it is soiled. In general, 3-4 for me would be normal for a car like yours.

Shtexas

07-23-2013, 07:59 PM

Is that obsidian black 212 or is it onyx 202? Hard to tell the difference but the onyx is single stage and to me is one of the deepest blacks I've seen when polished correctly.
I think the obsidian has slightly dark blue tinted clear.

DeviousDetail

07-24-2013, 09:21 AM

On my most recent detail I used.

4 Orange Compounding Pads - M105
2 Blue Polishing Pads - M205
2 Black Waxing Pad - CG Butter Wet, CG Blacklight
1 Red Finishing Pad - CG Glaze

I will usually go through 20-24 towels per detail.

JohnnyDetails

07-24-2013, 10:27 AM

zmcgovern45

07-24-2013, 11:03 AM

I have used the M105 and M205 combo in the past with great results, any idea why this time I couldnt get it to work for me?
^I own a 2009 IS250, so I can tell you that M105 was most likely overkill. Lexus has soft paint, which is especially difficult to deal with when it is black. I was able to achieve very good correction on my personal vehicle with M205 on a black finishing pad. M105 would most likely leave a good amount of marring, as could M205 on a more aggressive pad. Did you do a series of test spots starting with the least aggressive combo?

Is using an AIO like PF2500 on top of M105 a bad choice? I see that it turned out nice but should I had searched for an intermediate between the two?
As already mentioned, PF2500 is not an AIO, in fact it is similar to M205, but it is a DAT product rather than a SMAT. I would say PF2500 has more cut than M205 also, but probably finishes down just as well, which may be why it worked better for you since I am sure the M105 left some pretty good marring. It still seems there may be some traces of marring remaining based on your close up 'after' picture. In any sense, an AIO product is not a bad choice to use as a final finishing polish if you are wanting to save some time in the future.

How many towels do you typically go through on steps like compound removal and polish removal?
I use 1 towel for every 4 sections (use 2 sides of the towel per section, switching to a clean side of the towel for the next section)... it may be a bit excessive, but I have a ton of towels, might as well use them.

b0b

07-24-2013, 02:04 PM

For the exhaust tips, try 0000 steel wool and follow it with a Metal Polish like Collinite 850.

Thanks for that tip. I have seen others post something about steel wool too so will definitely try that this week. Need to get a metal polish and sealant though..

Is that obsidian black 212 or is it onyx 202?

Its the obsidian black 212

^I own a 2009 IS250, so I can tell you that M105 was most likely overkill. Lexus has soft paint, which is especially difficult to deal with when it is black. I was able to achieve very good correction on my personal vehicle with M205 on a black finishing pad. M105 would most likely leave a good amount of marring, as could M205 on a more aggressive pad. Did you do a series of test spots starting with the least aggressive combo?

I did try and start with the least aggressive method with the 205 first but I could still see plenty of defects. I didnt consider trying 205 with a cutting pad though... I went straight to 105 after the 205 did not work. In hindsight, I wish I would of just tried the pf2500 first, but it never crossed my mind :confused:

I tried my test spots on both the hood and one of the door panels. Both of them had the same results with the 205. After the 105, there were many panels that were marred. This was quickly fixed with the pf2500. I have to be honest I thought that I got almost all of the marring out. I checked the whole car over and over again with my light and in the sunlight. The pf2500 did a great job of concealing any marring left behind.

Do I agree that 105 was overkill? Yep... I think this is a good example of not using the perfect product for the job. I will be looking for a product to fill the gaps between something like pf2500 and 105.

My personal car is a 08 IS250 and the pf2500 has been the highest cut of any product that I have had to use on it. The swirls and water-spots were no where near as bad as this car.

Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond:props::props:

Shtexas

07-24-2013, 03:27 PM

I have a 12 IS250 F Sport in black. Its a source of great debate but it does appear that no Lexus paint is single stage, Mike has mentioned a few times it is likely they use a tinted clear. If you Google "single stage Lexus black" or something similar you will find a lot of things going both ways. The best I found was from looking up the paint codes.

3-Stage IS Colors (basecoat/midcoat/clearcoat):

8U0-Black Saphire Pearl
062-Crystal White
074-Glacier Frost Mica
3R1-Matador Red
077-Starfire Pearl

2-Stage IS Colors (basecoat/clearcoat)

202-Black Onyx
8P8-Blue Onyx Pearl-5 Variants!
8R6-Breakwater Blue Metallic-3 Variants
6U3-Desert Sage-2 Variants
4P7-Mystic Gold Metallic-2 Variants
212-Obsidian
1G0-Smokey Granite Metallic-2 Variants
1G1-Tungsten Pearl-1 Variant

This is from the DuPont Automotive Color Guide.

Yeah it's been pretty confusing figuring it out. The factory paint is single stage black. Dupont provides that guide that says 2 stage because they only offer 2 stage for repair because of voc restrictions. Original factory paint was from PPG. That was in 2009. Friend of mine had his onyx IS repaired and went through a long process of fighting with the repair shop then toyota about the paint. I'm not sure but I would assume they use 2 stage now.

zmcgovern45

07-24-2013, 04:22 PM

I did try and start with the least aggressive method with the 205 first but I could still see plenty of defects. I didnt consider trying 205 with a cutting pad though... I went straight to 105 after the 205 did not work. In hindsight, I wish I would of just tried the pf2500 first, but it never crossed my mind :confused:

I tried my test spots on both the hood and one of the door panels. Both of them had the same results with the 205. After the 105, there were many panels that were marred. This was quickly fixed with the pf2500. I have to be honest I thought that I got almost all of the marring out. I checked the whole car over and over again with my light and in the sunlight. The pf2500 did a great job of concealing any marring left behind.

Do I agree that 105 was overkill? Yep... I think this is a good example of not using the perfect product for the job. I will be looking for a product to fill the gaps between something like pf2500 and 105.

My personal car is a 08 IS250 and the pf2500 has been the highest cut of any product that I have had to use on it. The swirls and water-spots were no where near as bad as this car.

Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond:props::props:

PF2500 IS the correct type of product to use after M105... it is a medium polish that is capable of finishing down very well... aka exactly what you want to use to clean up anything left over from a compound. In fact, most of the time, I find that I only need a fine finishing polish to follow up after M105 so there would be no need to find another type of 'intermediate' product in between the 2 IMO.

Car looked good though :xyxthumbs:

Shtexas

07-24-2013, 04:30 PM

PF2500 IS the correct type of product to use after M105... it is a medium polish that is capable of finishing down very well... aka exactly what you want to use to clean up anything left over from a compound. In fact, most of the time, I find that I only need a fine finishing polish to follow up after M105 so there would be no need to find another type of 'intermediate' product in between the 2 IMO.

Car looked good though :xyxthumbs:

Whatever zmcgovern says I would listen to. He has probably the nicest IS I've ever seen.

b0b

07-24-2013, 05:21 PM

PF2500 IS the correct type of product to use after M105..

Ok thanks for clearing that up. I guess my next question would be...

"Should I have used a compound with less cut than 105 has?"

Car looked good though :xyxthumbs:

Thanks man :props:

Infiniti

07-24-2013, 06:37 PM

M105 was most likely overkill.

This is what I think every time I see someone using M105 on a fairly new vehicle.

zmcgovern45

07-24-2013, 09:00 PM

Ok thanks for clearing that up. I guess my next question would be...

"Should I have used a compound with less cut than 105 has?"

Thanks man :props:

I probably would have tried PF2500 with an orange light cutting pad, and if that didn't yield the desired results I would have bumped up to something like M105 and an orange pad.