Auto Magic "Red Hot"

[lunchboxmunchy]

Hey Geeks. A client brought me her Toyota Sienna for detail and asked if i've heard of this product an old friend gave to her. I told her I knew nothing about it, other than the label saying it is an APC that smells like cinnamon. Anyone have any experience with this stuff? Thanks!

[tuscarora dave]

Forum member vegas transplant told me that that Red Hot is like APC on steroids. He said it will destroy your hands so be careful.

I honestly know nothing other than what V.T. told me. Maybe you can send him a PM and ask for his input.

[lunchboxmunchy]

Dave, thanks for the response. I only planned on putting some in my water extractor. I'll be sure to be careful and wear some gloves when handling it. Imma PM VT.

Keep Calm & Chive On

[Vegas Transplant]

:bolt:

Mike's philosophy (my use of red and underline to express thought) which I have taken to heart. If I ran into an issue that required this product, I would turn the job down and let some one else have the pleasure.



The Mindset of a Professional Detailer (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/20551-mindset-professional-detailer.html)



The Mindset of the Professional Detailer
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/722/mindset01.jpghttp://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/722/mindset06.jpg
Originally posted on ShowCarGarage on 11-08-2005, 11:45 PM



When it comes to detailing cars for profit there are three general camps,







Production work
High-end work
Show Car Detailing
A lot of detailers start out doing production work and as their skill level increases and they begin to establish their reputation, they are able to move up to high-end detailing where they are able to offer higher quality work which usually includes a multi-step paint polishing process and thus a higher price. In some cases doing production work can be more profitable because you an work faster, do less to the car and your customers expectations are not going to be as high because of the price you're charging.


Generally speaking, (but not always), the people doing production work are either just starting out, or working for someone else and often times both. Because they are paid by the hour or by the car, they often times don't have the monetary incentive to pour their heart and soul into their work, nor are they able to experience the self-satisfaction and pride that comes from a job well done. For this reason, over time every car becomes just another car. There is no connection, there is no reason to give it their all, every car becomes an exercise in speed, as in how fast can they get the job done, not how well can they do the job.

Another category of detailing is what you would call Show Car Detailing. This would involve doing your best work for typically special interest vehicles where the owner wants and expects a show car finish and understands that to achieve this kind of finish, it requires the person doing the work to have a high skill level and a excellent working knowledge of what I call the 3 P's, Paint, Products & Procedures.

Of course the owners of special interest cars understand that professional quality work also comes at a premium price. At the end of the day, the value is in the results achieved, but if you want to drill down a little deeper, then what the customer is really paying for, (and in other words, the real value), is the peace of mind the owner obtains knowing that their car is in the hands of a skilled professional. It is this confidence the detailer provides the owner, that enables the owners to hand them the keys and walk away without fear.


Besides confidence, a professional detailer also brings to the table their soul, by this I mean a true craftsman of the art of polishing paint brings to his craft the human elements of care and passion.

The human elements of caring about the quality of your work, and having a true passion for the craft, is a mindset. This mindset is a way of thinking that is an unconscious reflex similar to breathing. By this we mean, just like none of us ever have to think about breathing because it's an automatic reflex that is a part of our physiology, for the craftsman, doing their very best work for every car they touch is an unavoidable reflex... it's in their blood.

For myself, when I work on another person's car, I mentally adopt the car as if it were my own. After making this intellectual commitment and emotional attachment towards both the vehicle and the owner of the vehicle, everything else, (the work to be performed), becomes second-nature, I simply treat their car exactly like I would treat my own car, because at some level, it is now my car.

This is the mindset of any true professional no matter what their profession. It's never about the money… it's always about the passion.

When it comes to polishing the paint on special interest vehicles, there is no room for error. This is because automotive paints are a thin, delicate film coating; they are easily dulled and easily swirled and scratched, once they are dulled down or instilled with scratches, it requires the right products and techniques to remove the defects and restore a show car shine. You are limited to what you can do by how thick the working film-build of the paint is, this is why we always say,"It's all about the paint".

There is a point of no return when working on paint. Once you've gone past this point, the only true solution is to apply more paint and this can be quite expensive, especially when it's someone else's car we're talking about and not your own!


If you're reading this and you're looking to learn more about the art of polishing paint, then you have come to the right place. Autogeek Online isn't just another detailing discussion forum… (there's plenty of these to choose from), no… Autogeek Online is a place you can learn more about the art of polishing paint.

Hang around, read the forum, assimilate the information… adopt the mindset of a professional…




:xyxthumbs:

Personally, I see no need for this product in any detailers arsenal. Used it frequently some years ago at the dealership to degrease transmission fluid leaks on RV's which generally ran all throughout the frame and rear of travelling motorhome.
May be useful to reconditioners, but not professional detailers...IMO.

http://www.automagic.com/MSDS-2011/51.pdf
This is some dangerous stuff. PPE required...REAL TALK.

[Vegas Transplant]

Dave, thanks for the response. I only planned on putting some in my water extractor. I'll be sure to be careful and wear some gloves when handling it. Imma PM VT.

Keep Calm & Chive On

It just may kill the properties of your defoamer additive...IDK for sure.
Maybe FUNX725 or SETEC ASTONOMY can give more insight on the chemical nature of this product. I would advise against using in this fashion even though it may be highly diluted. Will probably attack the backing of carpets and the dye in fabrics.
I used to do quite a bit of hacking before landing at AGO. I pass on projects rather than harm my rep.

[FUNX650]

http://www.automagic.com/MSDS-2011/51.pdf

Hi VT…
Thanks for providing this product’s MSDS. :props:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________

Accordingly:

Auto Magic® "Red Hot™ All Purpose Cleaner"…
MANUFACTURER: Auto Wax-An ITW Company

3. COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
Chemical Name…………………..CAS#………….Wt.%
A.) Disodium Metasilicate
(sodium metasilicate)……..6834-92-0..…….1-4

B.) 2-Butoxyethanol………111-76-2………....1-3
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________

As to ingredient "A.)":

A few synonyms:
-Disodium Metasilicate;
-Sodium Silicate;
-Sodium Metasilicate, 9-hydrate;
-Sodium Metasilicate, anhydrous Soluble Glass;
-Waterglass.

Hazardous characteristics:
Corrosiveness:
In moist air it is corrosive to metals such as: zinc, aluminium, tin, and lead...forming hydrogen gas

Reactivity:
The substance is a strong base, it reacts violently with acids.

TOXICOLOGY:
-Sodium metasilicate is markedly corrosive and penetrating.
-Solubilizing reactions occur with protein and collagen, saponifying effects on lipids and dehydration of tissues and cells.
-Sodium metasilicate is highly corrosive due to its buffer capacity, which means that the high pH is well sustained
in the presence of tissue components that would quickly neutralize other alkalis such as sodium hydroxide (YIKES!!!)

Eye, ears, nose, throat (local effects):
-Dysphagia, drooling, pain.
-Burns of the epiglottis and vocal cords, and laryngeal obstruction.
-Possible longterm sequelae of acute exposure include esophageal stricture and vocal cord paralysis.

Acute poisoning by:
Ingestion:
-Can cause oral pain, dysphagia, drooling, and pain in the throat, chest, or abdomen.
-Esophageal or gastric perforation may occur, manifested by severe chest or abdominal pain, signs of peritoneal irritation, or pancreatitis.
-Hematemesis and shock may occur.
-Scarring of the esophagus or stomach may result in permanent stricture formation and chronic dysphagia.

Inhalation:-
-Acute exposures involving the inhalation of dusts of sodium metasilicate may result in irritation of the respiratory tract
and corrosive damage may result from contact with mucous membranes.
-Skin exposure usually results in immediate pain and redness. -Serious full thickness burns can occur

Eye contact:
-Eye exposure to corrosive agents commonly results in conjunctivitis and lachrymation. Blindness can occur.
-Sodium metasilicate is used with sodium carbonate in heavy duty alkaline laundry detergents.
This type of detergent causes damage to the cornea, with opacification, proportional to the alkalinity of the preparation.

Other manifestations can include:
-Dysphagia, drooling, pain and hematemesis.
-Oral, oesophageal, and gastric burns may be present.
-Extensive mucosal damage leads to fever, tachypnoea, tachycardia, hypertension, and shock.
-Acute complications include aspiration pneumonia, burns of the epiglottis and vocal cords, and laryngeal obstruction.
-Acute perforation of the esophagus or stomach with mediastinitis or peritonitis, sepsis, and death may occur.
-Longterm sequelae of acute exposure may include esophageal stricture, squamous cell esophageal cancer, vocal cord paralysis, and pyloric stenosis.

There’s plenty more WARNINGS…But I’ll stop here.

So On To:

Description:
-Sodium metasilicate is not a cleaning agent, by and of itself.
-It is, however, a VERY strong base.
-In moist air it is corrosive to metals like zinc, aluminium, tin and lead, forming hydrogen gas.
-As a VERY strong base, it reacts violently with acids.

Uses:
-It’s used as a builder>>>: A material that enhances or maintains the cleaning efficiency of a surfactant…(mainly by “inactivating”
Water hardness)…in soaps and detergents.

-It is used extensively as an anti-corrosion agent in boiler-water feed.

-It may be used as part of a component in a chemical degreaser…where it would react with fatty acids (animal grease)…to form a soap, which is then rinsed away.

The pH:
Even in a 1% aqueous solution….the pH is ~ 13.

The CANADA WHMIS HAZARD SYMBOL AND CLASSIFICATION:

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/ToxicSymbol.jpg (http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/61678)

CLASS D: POISONOUS AND INFECTIOUS MATERIAL
Division 2: Materials Causing Other Toxic EFFECTS
-These materials can cause life-threatening and serious long-term health problems
as well as less severe but immediate reactions in a person who is repeatedly exposed to small amounts.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________

As to ingredient "B.)": 2-Butoxyethanol

Synonyms:
2-BE, Butoxyethanol, n-Butoxyethanol, 2-Butoxy-1-ethanol, Butyl ethoxol,
O-Butyl ethylene glycol, Butyl glycol, Butyl monoether glycol, EGBE,
Ethylene glycol butyl ether, Ethylene glycol n-butyl ether, Ethylene glycol
monobutyl ether, Ethylene glycol mono-n-butyl ether, Glycol butyl ether,
Glycol monobutyl ether, Monobutyl glycol ether, 3-Oxa-1-heptanol.

2-Butoxyethanol is also known commercially under the following trade names:
Butyl Cellosolve®, Butyl Icinol®, Butyl Oxitol®, Dowanol EB®, Eastman® EB Solvent, Gafcol EB®,
Glycol ether EB®, Jeffersol EB®, Poly-Solv EB®.

Since this is one of the more discussed chemicals…I’ll just list some general information.

Description:
2-Butoxyethanol is an organic solvent.
-It is a colorless liquid with a sweet, ether-like odour.
-It is a relatively nonvolatile, inexpensive solvent with: "modest surfactant properties", at best.

Uses:
2-butoxyethanol (2-BE) is used in paints and surface coatings, cleaning products:
(surface cleaner, floor stripper, glass/window cleaner, carpet cleaner, laundry detergent, rust remover, oven cleaner, ink/resin remover).
-Other products which contain 2-BE include acrylic resin formulations, asphalt
release agents, firefighting foam, leather protectors, oil spill dispersants and photographic strip solutions.
-It is also used as a feedstock in the manufacture of other chemicals, for example, butyl glycol acetate (BGA).
-It's used as a solvent for greases, oils, dyestuffs and nitrocellulose resins and enamels.
-It has been used as an ingredient in agricultural chemicals, cosmetics and brake oils,
-And as a raw material in the production of phthalate and stearate plasticisers.

The principal health effects:
Irritation of the eyes and respiratory tract.
2-Butoxyethanol is readily absorbed through the skin.
-For printing and cleaning operations…There are some concerns and adequate control measures are needed.
-Due to low and intermittent exposure...the public health risk from the use of products containing 2-
butoxyethanol is low. But given the potential for risk to human health in some situations,
further work on the extent of dermalabsorption is ongoing.

2-Butoxyethanol has moderate acute toxicity and is irritating to the eyes and skin; it is not a skin sensitizer.

2-Butoxyethanol is relatively non-volatile, miscible in water, readily biodegradable and non-bioaccumulative.

There is no apparent risk to any of the environmental compartments.


Personally, I see no need for this product in any detailers arsenal.
Used it frequently some years ago at the dealership to degrease transmission fluid leaks on RV's
which generally ran all throughout the frame and rear of travelling motorhome.
May be useful to reconditioners, but not professional detailers...IMO.
This is some dangerous stuff. PPE required...REAL TALK.
^^^I agree…Not something I would recommend for detailing/household use^^^

Trying to tie the two listed hazardous ingredients together…
-One is a binding agent for surfactants…the other is a solvent/”modest surfactant”, at best.
-Is there enough of the listed surfactant (2-BE) to allow the binder (sodium metasilicate) to perform up to par…
OR:
Is there another surfactant/chemicals included that may be proprietary, and not be hazardous…that we should know about?


It just may kill the properties of your defoamer additive...IDK for sure.

I would advise against using in this fashion even though it may be highly diluted.
Will probably attack the backing of carpets and the dye in fabrics.

Mr. Mike Phillips talks about the ever changing landscape of auto-interiors and how a detailer must adjust his skills/chemical-knowledge accordingly.

So...In that vein of thought…

-Even though many, many carpet cleaners contain sodium metasilicate..
It would behoove one, (and be well worth the effort...IMHO), to obtain an auto-carpet cleaner, (sans sodium metasilicate), that’s been approved by the CRI:

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/carpet-and-rug-institute-seal-of-approval_CRI_.jpg (http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/61679)

-Many janitorial supply houses carry such approved products/tools (including steamers/extractors), and provide training at a nominal fee, if so desired.



I used to do quite a bit of hacking before landing at AGO.
I pass on projects rather than harm my rep.
^^^Good Advice^^^


Hope this helps in some form or fashion.

:)

Bob

[lunchboxmunchy]

All of the information and advice has been considered. I DID NOT use the product. I told the client that I wasn't comfortable using it and apologized. She understood where I came from when I told her. Anyways, thanks Geeks!

Keep Calm & Chive On

[custmsprty]

Hey Geeks. A client brought me her Toyota Sienna for detail and asked if i've heard of this product an old friend gave to her. I told her I knew nothing about it, other than the label saying it is an APC that smells like cinnamon. Anyone have any experience with this stuff? Thanks!



here's a link to the msds sheet

Auto Magic product MSDS - English Version (http://www.automagic.biz/English_Auto_Magic_Products.html)

I sold jan san products for over 20 years, this is what we call a butyl based cleaner, way more powerful than anyhting you'll most likely ever need. It is defintely not something to take casually. Need to wear gloves for sure when using and eye protection wouldn't hurt either. It'll take paint of walls etc after repeated use. I prefer citrus based nuetral cleaners, far less aggressive. Like in detailing, always strat with the lease aggressive cleaner, and this is on the opposite scale. Highly aggressive.

[AC in OC]

Wow. Some really good info in just a few posts. Very in depth. I have re-read that a few times.

Anyone else here believe that Bob is the real life Walter White?

[Vegas Transplant]

All of the information and advice has been considered. I DID NOT use the product. I told the client that I wasn't comfortable using it and apologized. She understood where I came from when I told her. Anyways, thanks Geeks!

Keep Calm & Chive On

Thanks for posting this thread. This product was shelved by the sales department that summer after one of our rookies damaged a toy hauler in an effort to remove black running trails from the drip rails. The service dept. had ordered it from a detail supplier for our use in degreasing their transmission issues since they were not allowed in our work area, nor we in theirs.

The marketing leads the uninitiated to assume its capability.
You probably dodged a bullet.


Happy detailing...:buffing:






...Anyone else here believe that Bob is the real life Walter White?

Bob is on my detailing bucket list of AGO members to meet :)

[ken tuep]

My old work had this, it worked excellent at cleaning the tow truck frames and beds. A little goes a long way.

I'm not sure I'd use it for anything in my personal shop. Maybe degreasing engines at the most.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using AG Online

[tuscarora dave]

Wow. Some really good info in just a few posts. Very in depth. I have re-read that a few times.

Anyone else here believe that Bob is the real life Walter White?
I didn't need to read past the first chemical Bob wrote about.

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing: To the Walter White comment. When does that start again anyway? Not to hijack the thread but it seems the thread ended with the first few replies.

[AC in OC]

I didn't need to read past the first chemical Bob wrote about.

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing: To the Walter White comment. When does that start again anyway? Not to hijack the thread but it seems the thread ended with the first few replies.

Well Bob certainly gave the final answer for sure. I'm not sure when the new season starts. Supposed to be the last one too. I had been seeing it on Netflix, so I'm a full season behind.

So if Bob is "Mr. White", then would that make Roshan "Jesse"? Dangerous duo. :laughing: