Paint: Hard or Soft?

[carrrs]

Relative Newbie here. But, have been a avid reader/learner from the site and these forums. You guys are most helpful and generous with your advice and/or opinions. I have a basic question that I have not been able to find in all my searches on here. Sorry if it sounds so elementary but bugging me. I have an 02 Camry that needs the full treatment which I feel I am now knowledgeable enough to tackle and experiment with. However, one consideration I need to know is whether the paint is soft or hard. I know it could affect the approach to getting after it. How does one know in advance whether a paint is soft or hard? And, what does it mean to be single coat, etc. ? Please enlighten me. And, thanks in advance for being patient with a newbie. Feed back please

[mrgfy6]

Hopefully this helps you: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhSmV1SQJjifdEU5TGNRdTQ2RzNVcjQySE9QVnowW FE#gid=0

I found it in the charts and graphs section, which is a sticky so it's always at the top. You may find that section under the detailers library, or here (http://http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/product-charts-graphs/). Someone in that specific thread may be able to help you with the year/color you are looking for, as the chart is still not THAT detailed, but I'm assuming it is a generalization to how each manufacturers factory paints are.

As far as what the hardness of your paint will tell you, I'm still trying to figure that out on this forum, as I am a newbie, too, but I did find that.

Also, with a multi-stage paint, one layer has the color coat, and one has the clear. Sometimes they can go with a tri-coat which would have a tinted clear coat, but on an '02 Camry, unless someone did some specific and significant custom work, it is a color/clear coat combo, which means you shouldn't ever see any color in your pads when doing paint correction. If it were single stage...which hasn't been OEM on cars for a LONG time, there is no top clear coat; it's kind of like that new wall paint, paint and primer in one...only not:)

Hope that got you started, and someone more knowledgeable can fill in all the gaps I missed.

Good Luck
Matt

[sproketser]

Usually , Japanese car paint is soft , but it might depends on Manufacturers .

[carrrs]

Thanks guys.

[FUNX650]

2002 Toyota Camry's color codes is located on the driver side door jamb.
The code will have a C/TR in front of it.
Is your '02 Camry painted any of these colors?

010, 1E1 Alpine Mist Metallic
040 Super White II ***
1C8, U1C8 Lunar Mist Metallic
1E3 Phantom Gray Mica
202 Black ***
3M8 Red Mica
3P5 Black Walnut Pearl
3Q3, U3Q3 Dark Red Mica/Salsa Red Pearl
4Q2 Beige Mica/Desert Sand Mica
6P7 Light Green Opal Metallic
6S7 Dark Green Mica
8Q0, U8Q0 Stratosphere Mica
8Q1 Blue Mica
8Q2 Catalina Blue Pearl

The colors that have the red asterisks (***) are more than likely single-stage (SS) paint systems.
The other colors are probably BC/CC paint systems.

If in doubt...
I suggest to use Mike Phillips' method of determining vehicle paint systems:
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tricks-tips-techniques/34829-how-test-single-stage-clear-coat-paint.html


Paint's: Softness/Hardness...can sometimes be determined through usage of: "The Test Spot".

:)

Bob

[tuscarora dave]

Determining whether a car has hard or soft clear coat can be a little tricky until one has worked on clears at both ends of the spectrum.

In your test section as you begin a paint correction job and you're testing from the least aggressive machines, pads and products up to the more aggressive machines, pads and products to determine what the minimum required levels of aggressiveness will be to get the job done, you begin to get a feel for the attributes of certain clear coats.

In testing, some cars require a less aggressive choice of pad and product on a DA polisher. Another car might need a more aggressive compound to remove the defects with a DA polisher, and then some cars have high solids clear coats that are so hard that a DA polisher is simply not the machine to use if time is a factor. In this case a rotary polisher with a wool pad may be a better place to begin. If time is really a factor, (and you have the experience) machine sanding with 3000 grit or even 2500 grit to remove the surface defects on really hard clear coats might be the way to go. Of course followed by whatever a test section reveals will be necessary to remove the sanding marks and bring up the gloss.

When you work on a BMW with Jet Black paint which is typically pretty soft clear, then go to working on a Mercedes Benz with PPG Deltron Ceramiclear clearcoat which is super hard, you're working pretty much at opposite ends of the spectrum of softness vs. hardness.

In my experience, most later model Toyota's with clearcoat fall about right in between the two. It's not super hard, but it's far from really soft clear and if the defects are more than moderate, I usually find that a heavier compound such as M-105 is needed first to level out the defects, then a finer polish should be used to bring up the gloss and remove any marring left behind by the heavier compound.

The more you do this kind of work and the more cars you get under your belt, the better you get at determining whether a clear is hard or soft.

Hope that helps a little. TD

[Pureshine]

Determining whether a car has hard or soft clear coat can be a little tricky until one has worked on clears at both ends of the spectrum.

In your test section as you begin a paint correction job and you're testing from the least aggressive machines, pads and products up to the more aggressive machines, pads and products to determine what the minimum required levels of aggressiveness will be to get the job done, you begin to get a feel for the attributes of certain clear coats.

In testing, some cars require a less aggressive choice of pad and product on a DA polisher. Another car might need a more aggressive compound to remove the defects with a DA polisher, and then some cars have high solids clear coats that are so hard that a DA polisher is simply not the machine to use if time is a factor. In this case a rotary polisher with a wool pad may be a better place to begin. If time is really a factor, (and you have the experience) machine sanding with 3000 grit or even 2500 grit to remove the surface defects on really hard clear coats might be the way to go. Of course followed by whatever a test section reveals will be necessary to remove the sanding marks and bring up the gloss.

When you work on a BMW with Jet Black paint which is typically pretty soft clear, then go to working on a Mercedes Benz with PPG Deltron Ceramiclear clearcoat which is super hard, you're working pretty much at opposite ends of the spectrum of softness vs. hardness.

In my experience, most later model Toyota's with clearcoat fall about right in between the two. It's not super hard, but it's far from really soft clear and if the defects are more than moderate, I usually find that a heavier compound such as M-105 is needed first to level out the defects, then a finer polish should be used to bring up the gloss and remove any marring left behind by the heavier compound.

The more you do this kind of work and the more cars you get under your belt, the better you get at determining whether a clear is hard or soft.

Hope that helps a little. TD

+1

[Mike Phillips]

Determining whether a car has hard or soft clear coat can be a little tricky until one has worked on clears at both ends of the spectrum.





Exactly.

A person can't really make a judgment as to whether a paint system is hard or soft until they've buffed out a few cars at both extremes of the spectrum so they have experience to draw from. I actually explain that in my how to book because this topic comes up so often.

For a Toyota, you say you need to do a total restoration, that means at a minimum you'll need a medium cut compound to remove the swirls, possibly a compound.


Polish manufactures don't label their products in easy ways for the average person to know what the product is, that's where the forum comes in handy.


What products, tools and pads do you have if any?



:)

[hernandez.art13]

http://youtu.be/zuGZpYZO7EY

^ I'm just providing additional information.

[carrrs]

Thanks again to all you guys for the help. While I am a newbie and clearly still on a steep learning curve, I am a quick learner and anxious to really delve into this new found hobby. I actually have been stocking up on AG products for a few months anticipating getting started. So I have the DA PC XP and lots of pads, products, etc. The 02 Camry I have is very dull and in bad need of correction. Not even certain the last time is was waxed, but certainly plan on ending that. Actually this old ride of mine is a good car to experiment with, but thought the paint question was relevant to my approach. The research I've done is that the older model Toyotas had a lot of probs with the paint. It appears it is a single stage paint, but couldn't bet on it. Still researching, but if it can be dealt with during the correction process, then that is the way I will go. My plan is to do all the prep work in the sequence recommended on here. That is the whole thing of foam wash, iron x, clay, lots of washing between steps,,,all to get to the point of test areas. Thought I would start with the M105 and then 205, then seal with WG 3 and finish with a good wax. Of course I understand that sometimes when things don't go the way you want along the way, you have to adjust accordingly. I was just hoping to get the most out of this old Toyota paint. I know it is actually a lot of work, but something I will enjoy doing, you know, the final outcome. Frankly, I am surprised that I have found lots of probs with the Toyota paints. Otherwise has been a great car. Mike, I like the way you give common sense answers and enough detail explained in a way that most can understand. That is a gift. Keep doing it. Thanks again to all.