Cleaning wheels - how to keep iron remover off brake calipers

[lawrenceSA]

Hi all you knowledgable AG'ers....

On most cars I detail I will use AF Iron out as an iron decontamination product. I believe it is an acidic product (whereas iron-x is apparently not).

I have noticed that on some OEM unpainted brake calipers contact with AF Iron results in them turning a white'ish color, and nothing I have tried removes this staining.

As prevention is better than cure, I am obviously leaning toward keeping the AF iron out off the calipers to begin with. One solution is obviously to remove the wheels from the car and clean them that way, however this comes with its own cons - increased time, the risk of damaging wheels during removal/refitting etc etc.

Do any of you have any tips or tricks to prevent the iron remover from coming into the contact with the calipers, whilst the wheels remain on the car? (Bearing in mind that for the most part, I am also trying to get the inner barrels of the wheels clean, not just the face)

Thanks in advance

[Mike Phillips]

Besides all the issues you listed with removing the wheels there's also the issues of correctly re-torquing the lug nuts correctly and without making a mistake and causing wheel or rotor damage.


Perhaps look into the new 3M Paint Defender System? It's a spray protective film?

My guess is any chemical strong enough to remove brake dust will also remove the 3M Defender Film... plus it still wouldn't be an easy or thorough fix.

I'd look into finding a different wheel cleaner and keep things simple.



:)

[Mike Phillips]

On most cars I detail




Dedicated Wheel & Wheel Well Package

Here's an approach that might work better but you'll have to become the expert and torquing wheels and that will mean getting a high quality torque wrench and then get the torque specs for each car/wheel you detail.

The key to success with this will be to offer this specialized procedure as an upsell and charge by the hour. You'll have to include wheel wheel cleaning and detailing to make it a complete package.

This will separate your customers from the people wanting something for free and people that REALLY want their wheels, brake rotors, and wheel wells cleaned and detailed. Like the people that own exotics, show cars, tuners, etc.


Create a dedicated package and upsell. This way by having the package to offer you customers you give them the opportunity to say yes or turn the service down. When they turn the service down and then ask,

Well what can you do?

That's when you "educate" them on what it takes to do the job the "best" way and the "safe" way. Once you do this any intelligent person will understand the time and labor behind this type of process.

Then tell them without going this complicated, here's what I can do...


Blank
Blank
Blank

All of the above is just normal, fast, easy safe products and procedures and for the majority of people with "Daily Drivers" this will be what they really want to afford.


You'll also need a very high quality floor jack and saftey jack stands.



:)

[lawrenceSA]

Hi Mike

Thank you for your great replies. I already do have a decent torque wrench, axle stands and floor jack, and will definitely look at the option of an 'up-sell' package. Great suggestion.

Again, thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule to reply

Much appreciated.

[Mike Phillips]

Hi Mike

Thank you for your great replies. I already do have a decent torque wrench, axle stands and floor jack, and will definitely look at the option of an 'up-sell' package. Great suggestion.

Again, thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule to reply

Much appreciated.


If you're including this type of procedure "with" a regular detail package you're probably going to lose money on the time, labor and even chemicals involved.


Re-read this article...


A few tips on starting a part-time detailing business (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-make-money-detailing-cars/27827-few-tips-starting-part-time-detailing-business.html)
Match your services to your customer



:)

[lawrenceSA]

I have been offering a 'wheels off' detail to those that want it, which will include the cleaning of the arches, brake calipers, dampers, and then obviously the wheels too.

For a 'normal' detail I have been cleaning them on the car using a 'regular' wheel cleaner. The problem has arisen, so to speak, since using an iron removal product (I currently have AF Iron out) to clean as much of the embedded brake dust off the rims as possible, whilst still on the vehicle.

It has proved rather difficult to try and clean the barrels (insides) of the wheels without inadvertently getting some of the Iron Out on the calipers. In the same breath, I would imagine it is probably also very difficult to spray the faces of certain rims without some of it getting onto the calipers too...

[zmcgovern45]

AF Iron Out is in fact pH neutral according to the product info on DD.


Auto Finesse Iron Out - Iron Remover 500 ml

Reactive iron contamination desolver. This pH neutral formula will react and dissolve contamination from all exterior surfaces, paintwork, wheels, glass and even trim, simply spray, allow to react and rinse.

[lawrenceSA]

Thanks for that info zmcgovern45 - my assumption (admittedly incorrectly) was that it was an acidic product.... there is a definite reaction between it an unpainted OEM calipers resulting in a white 'stain' on the calipers.

So if it is not the acid in the product reacting with the calipers, do you perhaps have any idea why it does this?

I have noticed this on VW, Toyota and Audi calipers.

Also, I have a gallon bottle of the stuff and have noticed some white'ish residue on the cap, almost like you would notice on battery terminals.... wonder what it is?

[erichaley]

Depending on the wheel, couldn't you take something similar to a paper plate (don't actually use a paper plate), cut it in half, and then cut it to fit around the brake disc / caliper? Basically, something you could slip in through the wheel face...

[WRAPT C5Z06]

I would take the term "pH balanced" with a grain of salt. A product can be pH balanced, yet still stain the crap out of what you're working on. I found this out the hard way with IronX.

[zmcgovern45]

Thanks for that info zmcgovern45 - my assumption (admittedly incorrectly) was that it was an acidic product.... there is a definite reaction between it an unpainted OEM calipers resulting in a white 'stain' on the calipers.

So if it is not the acid in the product reacting with the calipers, do you perhaps have any idea why it does this?

I have noticed this on VW, Toyota and Audi calipers.

Also, I have a gallon bottle of the stuff and have noticed some white'ish residue on the cap, almost like you would notice on battery terminals.... wonder what it is?
^I have also noticed a white residue on my Iron X spray bottle after I have not used it for an extended period of time. I am not sure what is causing your problem.. I have used IronX on several Audis and have never experienced staining on calipers... just to double check, but the calipers are totally cool when you are working with them, correct?


Depending on the wheel, couldn't you take something similar to a paper plate (don't actually use a paper plate), cut it in half, and then cut it to fit around the brake disc / caliper? Basically, something you could slip in through the wheel face...
^Sounds like a good idea to me


I would take the term "pH balanced" with a grain of salt. A product can be pH balanced, yet still stain the crap out of what you're working on. I found this out the hard way with IronX.
^True... it is never a bad idea to test a product in an inconspicuous area to be safe.

[lawrenceSA]

Yes, the calipers are always cool. I usually have the customer drop his vehicle off on a Friday night which I use to sort out the interior. Then first thing Sat morning I literally just reverse the car out the garage and start on the wheels.

Also, just for clarity, I am using Autofiness Iron out, not Carpro Iron-x - not sure if this changes anything.

Will certainly give the 'paper plate' (or such equivalent) a try and see if it works.

[RMM]

AF Iron Out is in fact pH neutral according to the product info on DD.

This information is incorrect: Iron Out is in fact acidic (pH = 6)!
I have seen this posted incorrectly in several online shops.
Just Google: "PolishedBliss Auto Finesse Iron Out Demo Video" and check minute 1:03.

[zmcgovern45]

This information is incorrect: Iron Out is in fact acidic (pH = 6)!
I have seen this posted incorrectly in several online shops.
Just Google: "PolishedBliss Auto Finesse Iron Out Demo Video" and check minute 1:03.

Then a ton of retailers are being fed false information which they are then relaying to their customers...


Auto Finesse Iron out is a reactive iron contamination disolver. This pH neutral formula will react and dissolve contamination from all exterior surfaces, paintwork, wheels, glass and even trim, simply spray, allow to react and rinse.


Auto Finesse Iron Out is a pH-balanced, acid-free cleaner removes what detailing clay cannot – ferrous (iron containing) particles.


Iron Out is a reactive iron contamination disolver. This pH neutral formula will react and dissolve contamination from all exterior surfaces, paintwork, wheels, glass and even trim, simply spray, allow to react and rinse. - See more at: Iron Out - Contaminate remover - 500ml | Auto Finesse (http://www.autofinesse.co.uk/iron-out/#sthash.l15Y9DC4.dpuf)

[FUNX650]

This information is incorrect: Iron Out is in fact acidic (pH = 6)!
I have seen this posted incorrectly in several online shops.
Just Google: "PolishedBliss Auto Finesse Iron Out Demo Video" and check minute 1:03.

Then a ton of retailers are being fed false information
which they are then relaying to their customers...
-Which is better for dissolving iron particles...(even those that are sintered): Acids, or Bases.

-What is meant by being "ph neutral"?
How does this apply to chemical cleaners such as IronX, Iron Out, Iron Cut, Purple Rain, and their kinfolk?

-How does: "exothermic chemical reaction"...fit into this equation?
What happens when you mix acetic acid with water?
When you throw a few iron-particulates into the above mixture?

BTW:
IronX contains:
-Ammonium Sulfanylacetate (Ammonium thioglycolate)...@ 3-25%
-Alkyl Ethoxy sulphate...@ 1-15%


Is: "Neutralization" the reaction between an acid and a base that produces a salt and neutralized base?

-What is the cause of products, of this nature, to have resulting emulsions that:
"turn" to different colors, such as: from greens; to: reds/purples?
Are these emulsions full of "rust"? If so: How did this "rust" become part of the emulsion?


Be honest with yourself when asking the following:
Are these Iron-Removers-products' Manufacturers, Formulators/Chemists...
ever going to divulge any information to satisfy any of the above queries?

I would think thusly:
Don't hold your breath!!

-OOOPS!! That's wrong information...to a certain extent.
You almost have to hold your breath whenever using these types of products.
Either that...Or the proper PPE!


:)

Bob