Did I just put holograms into my wifes car?

[tfreer85]

Okay so preface, I've been reading the forum off and on for a while and wanted to go at doing my first waxing with a variable speed polisher.

Products used:
Armor All wash soap
Meguiars Gold Class paste
Generic Terry Cloth Pads
Harbor Freight Variable Speed Polisher

Went through washed and dried. Everything is going along smoothly. I get the Polisher all setup on the middle speed using a terry cloth pad. I apply some wax to the pad and start work each area slowly around the car. (taking care not to burn, or rest the pad in one spot, while using even moderate pressure).

After letting the car sit, I do the swipe test on where I started to make sure it's fully dried / cured. The wax is a MAJOR PITA to remove (probably applied too thick). Car looks great immediately after finishing.

Two days go by I see these popping up:
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/tfreer85/DB11CF8B-02B9-4149-8CAA-41447DE2EF50-14250-00000727EDD2E284_zpsb40692bd.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/tfreer85/57F83718-52B8-4342-B692-71667DD8F200-14250-00000727F4A683D6_zps8c252c9f.jpg

Now I had washed and waxed the car by hand about 2 weeks prior to trying the polisher (I don't know if that would encourage this effect or not). What I'm hoping is that this is just wax swirls and not holograms. I tried wiping/cleaning an area with quick detail (second picture), but it seems to still be there.

Any ideas? Suggestions? Help?

Thanks!
Tyson

[Evan.J]

It seems as if you did judging from the photos you posted. More than likely you induced these holograms from the terry cloth buffing pad.

If you were just apply wax you would have been better of just applying by hand.

Now you are going to have to get a polish and a foam polishing pad to removed the holograms.

Here is the definition of Rotary Buffer Swirl Marks:

Rotary Buffer Swirls
Rotary Buffer Swirls, also called Holograms or Buffer Trails are circular scratches instilled into paint by a rotary buffer and usually a wool pad but they can also be instilled using a foam pad. While it is the direct drive rotating action of a rotary buffer that can instill circular scratches into paint, this doesn't make them an evil tool, it's just a part of they cause and effect from using a direct drive tool that rotates a buffing pad in a single rotating action.

It's possible to use a rotary buffer and not instill rotary buffer swirl if the operator has a high skill level and uses quality pads and products. If rotary buffer swirls are instilled into paint, a true professional will do a follow-up process to remove them using less aggressive pads and products and sometimes switch to a different type of tool with a different action. Rotary Buffer Swirls usually show up i a Zig-Zag pattern when exposed to bright light like sun light. Rotary Buffer Swirls mimic the path the operator moved the buffer over the paint



The difference between Rotary Buffer Swirls, Cobweb Swirls, Micro-Marring, DA Haze & Tick Marks (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/28443-difference-between-rotary-buffer-swirls-cobweb-swirls-micro-marring-da-haze-tick-marks.html)

There’s a lot of talk about swirls on detailing discussion forums when it comes to the topic of paint correction and I’m going to do my best to differentiate between the two primary groups of swirls as well as explain what Tick Marks or Micro-Marring is and then show what all 3 types of paint defects look like.


Swirls are Scratches
First off, lets make sure everyone understands what swirls are at their core scratches in the paint.

That’s right; swirls are simply scratches in the paint. Why we call them swirls instead of scratches is because of they way they look as compared to our preconceived ideas as to how we think scratches should look.

Most of us think of scratches as defects that are in more or less straight lines, like this,

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/773/StraightScratch.jpg



Swirls on the other hand are usually thought of as having a visual appearance of circular patterns of some type and when we view swirls, they do have circular patterns and it is these patterns that identify which type of swirls we’re looking at and more important.. how they were instilled into the paint.

Above and Below
Before we get into the different types of swirls and micro-marring, lets address the topic of above and below surface paint defects because which type of defect you’re working on will determine how you remove it.


Above Surface Bonded Contaminants
This would include air-borne contaminants that land on your car’s finish and then bond to the paint tightly enough that they won’t wash off when you wash your car. For example, Overspray Paint, Industrial Fallout, Pollution, Tree Sap Mist, basically any kind of contaminant that can becomes air-borne and lands on the surface of your car’s paint. Above Surface Bonded Contaminants can usually be removed using detailing clay and the removal process does not remove any good paint. While we’re talking about detailing clay, one of the most common questions I get is,

“Will detailing clay remove swirls?”

The answer is “no”

Detailing clay only removes contaminants sitting or bonded to the “top” of the paint, detailing clay will not abrade the paint and level it like an abrasive compound or polish.


Below Surface Paint Defects
This would include, all types of swirls, all scratches and any type of etching that penetrates below the original surface level of the top coat of paint.

Because below surface defects are physically a defect that is “in” the paint, not “on” the paint, the only way to remove Below Surface Paint Defects is to physically abrade the paint. The goal is to remove enough of the paint surrounding the Below Surface Paint Defects to level the upper most surface of the top coat with the lowest depths of the defects you’re trying to remove.

Does that make sense?


The problem is paint is thin. Because paint is thin you are limited to how much paint you can safely remove without jeopardizing the integrity of the top coat and/or possibly removing so much paint that you expose the underlying color coat in the case of a basecoat/clearcoat paint system or primer in the case of a single stage paint system.


Now that we know,


What swirls are
Where they’re located in the paint
How to remove them
Lets take a look at the different types of swirls.


Rotary Buffer Swirls
Also called: Holograms or Buffer Trails


Rotary Buffer Swirls, also called Holograms or Buffer Trails are circular scratches inflicted into paint by a rotary buffer and usually by the individual fibers that make up a wool cutting or polishing pad. The abrasives used in most compounds and polishes can also inflict swirls into a car's finish, thus anytime you're using a wool buffing pad and a compound or polish you now have two things potentially inflicting swirls into the paint.

Foam pads can also inflict rotary buffer swirls into paint depending upon the aggressiveness of the foam formula and the product used.

It is the direct drive rotating action of a rotary buffer that instills the circular pattern of scratches into paint usually in some type of zig-zag pattern that mimics the pattern in which the buffer was moved over the paint by the technician.

A rotary buffer is not evil because it and the buffing pads and compounds used with it impart swirls into paint, it's just a part of the cause and effect from using a direct drive tool that rotates a buffing pad in a single rotating direction.


Rotary Buffer Swirls usually show up when a car is exposed to bright light like the sun when its high overhead in the sky.

It's possible to use a rotary buffer and not instill rotary buffer swirl if the operator has a high skill level and uses quality pads and products. If rotary buffer swirls are instilled into paint, a true professional will do a follow-up process to remove them using less aggressive pads and products and sometimes switch to a different type of tool with a different mechanical polishing action.


The primary visual difference between Rotary Buffer Swirls and Cobweb Swirls is the rotary buffer imparts this identifiable pattern while Cobweb Swirls do not.

Examples of Rotary Buffer Swirls
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/742/69ss4.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/742/Horrendous005.jpg


The zillions of swirls in the clear layer makes the paint look hazy and blocks your view of the black paint under the clear top coat. This reduces the darkness of the paint making the true black look gray.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/742/Horrendous006.jpg

:)

Its always very import to do a test spot when doing work on your vehicle.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/50162-how-do-test-spot.html

[tfreer85]

Evan,

Thanks for the informative post. I had read it, but was hoping I could be an exception. To do the polish I will have to remove the wax layer (either by clay or ?), then wash, polish, wax (by hand).

Thanks again, should have practiced on something other than the wife's car :cry:

[FUNX650]

Harbor Freight Variable Speed Polisher

I'm not familiar with this particular brand of polisher...

Is it a rotary/circular polisher? Thanks.

:)

Bob

[tfreer85]

Bob,

I have one exactly like this, but orange in color.

Sander/Polisher - 7 Speed Electric Sander & Polisher (http://www.harborfreight.com/7-inch-variable-speed-polisher-sander-92623.html)

[Evan.J]

Evan,

Thanks for the informative post. I had read it, but was hoping I could be an exception. To do the polish I will have to remove the wax layer (either by clay or ?), then wash, polish, wax (by hand).

Thanks again, should have practiced on something other than the wife's car :cry:

Hey you live you learn. You just learned the hard way but you did the right thing and came here for advice.

On to your fix. If you have a HF near you you might want to pick up the Dual Action Polisher. These are easier and safer to use than a rotary but if not, here is what I would do,
Wash you car using the 2 bucket method and a mix of Dawn to remove the wax.
Clay your vehicle
Inspect the paint for the severity of the holograms
Next get yourself some polish like Megs Ultimate polish
and this is were you will do you test spot.

You can either do this by hand or machine if you choose.

If you can get some foam pads these will greatly help you.

[FUNX650]

Bob,

I have one exactly like this, but orange in color.

Sander/Polisher - 7 Speed Electric Sander & Polisher (http://www.harborfreight.com/7-inch-variable-speed-polisher-sander-92623.html)
Then I can't help but to think that this is a rotary polisher;
and, coupling this polisher with the: "Generic Terry Cloth Pads"...
May have been the culprits that introduced the holograms to your wife's vehicle.

A DA polisher, coupled with foam pads and polishes, may be your best bet in removing these holograms.


:)

Bob

[Dr_Pain]

Then I can't help but to think that this is a rotary polisher;
and, coupling this polisher with the: "Generic Terry Cloth Pads"...
May have been the culprits that introduced the holograms to your wife's vehicle.

A DA polisher, coupled with foam pads and polishes, may be your best bet in removing these holograms.


:)

Bob

:iagree: :dblthumb2:

[tfreer85]

Thank you both Bob and Evan.

I might just pick up the DA from HF. While I'm there should I also pick up some of their polishing pads? I know they are cheap and not as good as LC's, etc. but should suffice?

You mentioned Mequiars Ultimate polish, I do have Mequairs Ultimate compound on hand. However, that would likely be too aggressive correct?

[c8n]

HF pads have mixed reviews... at least the one that I have read and majority of them said they were either crap or only good for 1 use. If you need to get this done asap, for the price, I think would take a chance on them.

Meg's UC is heavy cut and UP is more of a finishing polish with little bit of cut. They are on the opposite ends of spectrum in terms of correcting ability.

[Phathooddetail]

sounds like you enjoy or might enjoy detailing if so i would just jump in an get a griot's 6 inch some pads and a swirl remover and then see how you feel. at least we know that would fix your problem and you have an idea how far you want take it. Careful tho detailing is HIGHLY ADDICTIVE!!!!!!

[tfreer85]

I do enjoy detailing, wish I didn't screw it up, but it is definitely a fun hobby.

Thanks again for all the feedback, much appreciated!

[BlackHawk]

Terry cloth pad and a rotary....uhh it's like that video by HF on how to wax your car....lol. Anyways lesson learned. I recommend you get a GG6, if you can spend the extra $$