How long is long enough?

[ainterne]

Excuse me for asking this question if it been asked before, however, I have just bought a Porter Cable DA polisher.

I want to know how long typically do I polish for. I mean would you expect to polish a 2ft x 2ft for a minute or does it take normally 5 mins? I know the video howto video's say to polish until the polish becomes translucent. How long do polishes typically take to get translucent?

My paint is in pretty good condition but I want to get a great finish on the car. Is there any information anyone can share on how long the polisher should be used for on one section of pain?

I am just trying to be cautious about over polishing the clear coat and going to far.

Thanks in advance for any help offered.

[MarkD51]

Hi, and welcome to the forum.

Your question could have many answers, or no correct answer.

This will depend upon products, and pads used, as well as arm speed, and pressure applied.

Too much, could be as little as one pass with a coarse pad, and high abrasive compounds. It may not permanently ruin the paint in this particular instance, but could cause things like marring-dulling, and as you say, an unnecessary amount of agressiveness for what was actually needed.

Always remember the least agressive approach to get the job done.

It takes experience, , that you need to check your work by eye, and do what the folks here refer to as "the test spot".

We all have to start somewhere, and I highly recommend combing through this forum, and reading, and veiwing the many tutorials that Mike Phillips, our forum expert has provided for all of us.

Mike is a huge proponent of the use of machines, and uses them as much as possible, in the interest of speed, and to ease basically all procedures, but in all cases, and all vehicle's paint finishes, there will always be areas that have to be done by hand.

An entire vehicle can be done strictly by hand, and the question then is, how much time do you have to do such processes?

If the vehicle is fairly new, swirling, and hazing, and clouding is very very slight, then one can polish entire panels by hand, and get good results.

There is a standard procedure, which basically boils down to first decontaminate, which is wash, clay, polish, and wax (or sealant)

Mike explains it all thoroughly, in great detail. Follow his methods from his posts, and videos.

It would be hard for me to recommend what's best, but a good all around very mild polish which can be used effectively by hand, DA, or Rotary, would be a polish like Meguiars 205 Ultra Finishing Polish. Besides it being sold here, one can usually find it at the large auto supply stores, auto paint supply shops, and even many walmarts carry it now.

This is a very good product, and produces beautiful results on virtually all paint systems. It's a good product to have in one's arsenal for all around paint enhancment.

[ainterne]

Thanks. I understand there are many variables and it was a difficult question to answer with any certainty without me sharing much more info with you.

I guess it will be trial and error. Looking at the video's the instructors never seem to have the polisher on the paint for more that 30 seconds or so if that, between wiping off the polish to check the results.

I don't seem to be able to get to that translucent state within 30 seconds, in fact the polish just seems to be nearly the same as when I started. So I will have to just leave the polisher on for longer and hope for the best. I wish one of the instructors would say something like,
"don't polish a 3*3ft square patch for more than 3 mins without checking the results. e.g something definitive. Perhaps there is one, but I haven't come across any yet.

[swanicyouth]

This may help. If your going after defects or scratches, generally you want to move the DA polisher about 1-2 inches a second (closer to 2"). If you work a 2'x2' area, you want to make about 5 or 6 section passes.

So, as long as your moving the polisher at the right speed and doing the right amount of passes your fine.

When I'm going after defects, I tend to count in my head: "one-one thousand, two-one thousand, three-one thousand, etc...", then the buffer gets moved about two inches for every number. So, if I'm working on a 24" area, I count up to 12-one thousand.

So let's say 12 seconds to do a single pass (24" area). Lets say you do 6 passes (6 different strait in row passes each below each other - assuming a 6" pad). Using 30% overlap or so each time, that's about a 24" area.

I figure: 6" pad x 6" passes below each other; like this:

----------------
----------------
----------------
----------------
----------------
----------------

Each section of dashes is a pass of 24". Now imagine you using a 6" pad (or 5.5" pad with 15-20lbs of pressure widening it)

It would take you roughly 16 seconds to do each set of dashes (assuming a speed of 1.5" a second :24" / 1.5[" per second]= 16 seconds).

Keep in mind it takes about 6 passes with a 6" pad to do a 24" area, because each pass you want to do at least 1/3 overlap of the previous pass. So, if you put 6 x 6" pads end to end they would cover 36" - but in reality, you will only cover about 24" because you should be doing some overlap. Some use 1/2 overlap, but I think that's only required for nasty defects.

The 16 seconds per pass times 6 passes = 96 seconds (about 1.5 minutes)

Then, lets say you go over that whole same group of dashes 5 more times (6 section passes total). You would multiply your 1.5 minutes times 6 to get 9 minutes.

9 minutes. Realistically, that's how long it takes to do 6 section passes on a conventional stroke non forced rotation DA type polisher (Griots / Meg's / 7424 + or - XP) to remove defects.

You may be able to go a bit faster, but not much. CORRECTION with these machines is a slow affair. They are safe machines, but not quick.

For some video demos, I recommend Junkmans YouTube channel. If your using a finishing polish you can go faster, a paint cleaner 1/2 the passes and faster.

Hope this helps. All this is very "rough" info.

[ainterne]

Brilliant.....thank you very much for both answers. That's a lot of great information.

I guess like lots of people I have tried a myriad of polishes, waxes etc.

I think the top product I have used so far is Meguiar's Show Car Glaze where I can see a substantial difference in the shine, most I try all give the same finish other than just a few. I am glad Meguiars 205 Ultra Finishing Polish was mentioned as I trust their products, so that's next on the list. I did purchase some Blackfire Wet Diamond but unfortunately it was stolen from my garage. I bought some Adams polish but wasn't that impressed. I did have some Four Star Ultimate Paint Protection and found that very good.

None of these above I have used with a D/A polisher and thats what I am really looking forward to. I just was lost at how long to use the polisher for. Now I know.....so on the weekend it's going to be 205 Ultra and then Show Glaze. Fingers crossed.

Thanks again gentlemen. I appreciate you replies.

One last question if I may... Can I polish my glass with the D/A? And if so what should I use?

Phil.

[Ncs0816]

Honestly the porter cables old technology. I use it to apply waxes sealants, one step polish, and glazes. For real paint correction you need something stronger.

[glen e]

None of these above I have used with a D/A polisher and thats what I am really looking forward to. I just was lost at how long to use the polisher for. Now I know.....so on the weekend it's going to be 205 Ultra and then Show Glaze. Fingers crossed.

Thanks again gentlemen. I appreciate you replies.

One last question if I may... Can I polish my glass with the D/A? And if so what should I use?

Phil.

the above 9 minutes was for a true polish ..... 205 and then glaze will not do much correction at all. I understand you are hesitant but if you are really going to correct scratches, you'll have to start with 105....and more than a PC....and just my opin but glazes are for car shows...not for daily drivers...they wash away quickly...the Blackfire wet diamond is a better choice...

[Mach1USMC]

Yes you can, and IMO, should polish your glass with a DA. And while the PC is somewhat the old guy on the block it can still get you to where you want in the majority of cases. It's def true it doesn't have the power of many newer DAs like GG or Flex (for example) so if you have heavy swirls or scratches the latter 2 will do better/faster corrections. Also Glen is absolutely correct, glaze is not for correction. It's suppose to be applied AFTER correction. But as mentioned glaze is kind of overkill for a DD. just correct, seal and top it with a good wax. If you do it correctly you won't miss the glaze very much at all.

[5.4 Shelby]

Excuse me for asking this question if it been asked before, however, I have just bought a Porter Cable DA polisher.

I want to know how long typically do I polish for. I mean would you expect to polish a 2ft x 2ft for a minute or does it take normally 5 mins? I know the video howto video's say to polish until the polish becomes translucent. How long do polishes typically take to get translucent?

My paint is in pretty good condition but I want to get a great finish on the car. Is there any information anyone can share on how long the polisher should be used for on one section of pain?

I am just trying to be cautious about over polishing the clear coat and going to far.

Thanks in advance for any help offered.
I assume you are using this on the yellow Mustang in your avatar? I have polished several Mustangs several times. The pads/polishes I find the most helpful are the Megs DA MF system.

Meguiars DA Microfiber Correction System 5 Inch Starter Kit, paint correction kit, dual action polishing kit (http://www.autogeek.net/da-microfiber-starter-kit-5in.html)

There are several reasons I recommend it.

1. It is a SMAT product. Working time is not as critical with SMAT. DAT products are more sensitive to working time.

2. It is easy to get good results.

3. The pads are easy to clean.

4. The compound is quick and effective, yet, finishes out very clean. Esp on lighter colored Mustangs. I do recommend follow up with the finishing wax. It has some cut and will clean up any hazing left by the compound. I think the wax is decent. Once it wears off, you can use whatever you want. If you dont like it, remove the wax with a paint prep.

5. Your PC7424 is plenty powerful enough to do the job with this system. It doesnt require a lot of pressure on the pads to be effective. Heavy pressure is where the PC's lack of power shows up.

I would also pick up the 3in pads and backing plate for some of the smaller panels on your car.

[dlc95]

I have to second the Junkman's you tube vids for novices.

[Tinwhiskers]

Another good source for polishing technique is Todd Cooperider's videos. I really learned a lot just watching his motions and pace (much slower than you think).

Another important part of polishing is pressure especially with a PC. You need to put pressure on the pad, typically 15-20 lbs. This is the tricky part that comes with experience and trying different methods. No amount of pace will work if it's not matched up with the right amount of pressure.

As Mike Phillips taught you, always do a test spot and check the results. Hope this helps and good luck.

[Mike Phillips]

In most cases, you don't go by time but by "Section Passes".


When talking about machine polishing on discussion forums or even in detailing classes, the below questions always comes up,

What's a pass?
How many passes do I make?
What's a section pass?


The definition of a pass
There are two definitions of the word pass as it relates to machine polishing with any type of machine.


Single Pass
A single pass is just that. It's when you move the polisher from one side of the section you're buffing to the other side of the section you're buffing. That's a single pass.


Now read this definition.

Section Pass
A section pass is when you move the polisher back and forth, or front to back with enough single overlapping passes to cover the entire section one time. That's a section pass.


How many Section Passes?
In most cases if you're removing any substantial below surface defects you're going to make 6-8 section passes to the section you’re working before you either feel comfortable you've removed the defects or you're at the end of the buffing cycle for the product you're using.





How to do a Section Pass

YouTube- How to do a "Section Pass"...


Video: How to clean your pad on the fly (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-car-garage-how-videos/53611-video-how-clean-your-pad-fly.html)Here's a technique I've been showing for years on how to clean your pad quickly so you can get back to buffing out your car.



How to clean your pad on the fly

How To Clean Your Pad On The Fly - YouTube


Video: Mark your backing plate to make it easy to see pad rotation (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-car-garage-how-videos/49489-video-mark-your-backing-plate-make-easy-see-pad-rotation.html)


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1423/MarkYourBackingPlate01.jpg

Here's a quick video that show how and why to mark your backing plate to see and monitor pad rotation while doing any correction or polishing steps.





How To Check Pad Rotation on a DA Polisher -...



:)

[ainterne]

Thanks everyone. So I think I have it.....hopefully this is all correct.

1: Paint repair and shine comes from Polish or compound
2: Protection comes from Wax. Some wax can cover minor imperfections missed with the polishing.
3: Sealant can be put on before Waxing to prolong protection.

Considering my car is less than one year old, never goes out in the rain, always parked in a garage and covered during the winter, I can use a fine polish, glaze and then Wax.

4: I can put Wax on every couple of weeks and build up wax protection.

[Rival]

for a bad 2 x 2 area (swirls, marring, etc). about 6-8min, than you may have to go over it again depending what you used, org. condition of the paint and so forth.

finish polishing 2x 2 area, 3-6min. most of the work is already done at this point, you just want to bring out the shiny, luster, gloss.

waxing a 2 x 2 area, 1-2min.