Test spot feedback

[kevincwelch]

I have a few questions about my test of Megs 105/205 today. I sectioned off a 2x2 area of my hood. There were some swirls and what I would call a scratch, but it wasn't down to the primer. (Honestly, I don't know if it was down to the basepaint either -- it didn't catch my fingernail.)

I cleaned the area and then clayed the area. I applied some of GG paint prep and then used m205 on an orange GG 6 inch pad and made 6 passes on speed 5 using my GG DA. This removed some, but not all of the swirls. So, I stepped up to m105 on an GG orange pad and made 6 passes on speed 5 using the GG DA. I then followed that up using m205 on a GG black pad at speed 5. After wiping the area I made a few observations. In all cases, I rapidly applied the polish, then made overlapping passes going slowly.

1. The vast majority of the swirls and "scratches" were gone. (yay), but some were left (boo).

2. the polish seemed to dry up quickly and I had to reapply. It was about 90 deg F in my garage, but humid.

So, my questions are the following:

1. The reason for the remaining swirls/scratches are due to what? Not enough pressure on the orbital? Dried up polish? More than just swirls? Should have stayed with the orange pad for m205? Try out the Lake Country pads when I get them (if they're inherently better than GG)? Technique?

2. How frequently do you spritz the pad or the working field with water in cases like this?

3. In some of the videos here, I see Mike Philips just applying polish in a swirl or X pattern and then going to town. However, he also has a digital section on polishing and describes priming the pad. When do you do which?

Sorry, no photos.

Thanks!

[hernandez.art13]

This is just my opinion, not advise:

You probably did have enough "cut"

Can you keep going to take of the deeper scratches? (Yes)
But at the same time, you don't have have a Paint Thickness Gauge to see how far you have sanded down.

(Again just my opinion)

Either invest in a PTG or use fillers, because going through the clear coat is a horrible feeling.

This is: "Just me participating, anybody feel free to respectfully correct me"

Thank You

[kevincwelch]

Thanks for the feedback.

A paint thickness gauge. I understand the rationale behind this -- especially for most applications. But, is this necessary for safely removing swirls (which is 99% of what I feel like I have)? I would say that the few deeper scratches really aren't what are bothering me. Just the swirls.

[Evan.J]

Well I have a few questions for you:

Did you prime your pad prior to polishing and compounding?

What kind of downward pressure did you use and what was your arm speed?

Thur let over deeper scratches are what as known As RIDS. Random isolated deeper scratches. These are often more pronounced and visible after a polishing or compounding has been done.

Here is an article explaining what they are:

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/24045-rids-definition-rids-story-behind-term.html

Now the question is can you live with them?

The reason asking is because when working on a daily driver and factory clear coat you are already at a disadvantage as these baked on clears are so thin. I'd say if you got 85-90% of all defect removal then that's great IMO.

Now you could go with another application of M105 and see if you can get more of them out if you like.

[hernandez.art13]

I'll let another AG member chime in :)

[AutowerxDetailing]

I have a few questions about my test of Megs 105/205 today. I sectioned off a 2x2 area of my hood. There were some swirls and what I would call a scratch, but it wasn't down to the primer. (Honestly, I don't know if it was down to the basepaint either -- it didn't catch my fingernail.)

I cleaned the area and then clayed the area. I applied some of GG paint prep and then used m205 on an orange GG 6 inch pad and made 6 passes on speed 5 using my GG DA. This removed some, but not all of the swirls. So, I stepped up to m105 on an GG orange pad and made 6 passes on speed 5 using the GG DA. I then followed that up using m205 on a GG black pad at speed 5. After wiping the area I made a few observations. In all cases, I rapidly applied the polish, then made overlapping passes going slowly.

1. The vast majority of the swirls and "scratches" were gone. (yay), but some were left (boo).

2. the polish seemed to dry up quickly and I had to reapply. It was about 90 deg F in my garage, but humid.

So, my questions are the following:

1. The reason for the remaining swirls/scratches are due to what? Not enough pressure on the orbital? Dried up polish? More than just swirls? Should have stayed with the orange pad for m205? Try out the Lake Country pads when I get them (if they're inherently better than GG)? Technique?

2. How frequently do you spritz the pad or the working field with water in cases like this?

3. In some of the videos here, I see Mike Philips just applying polish in a swirl or X pattern and then going to town. However, he also has a digital section on polishing and describes priming the pad. When do you do which?

Sorry, no photos.

Thanks!

So... couple things...

1> Kudos for doing a test spot!! This is the number one step to ensuring a successful paint correction process. As you have found, you would not have been satisfied with the results had you just gone to town on the entire car and inspected later.

2> When you say the "polish" is drying up quickly I'm going assume you are talking about M105. If that is the case then that is normal. M105 is designed to cut quickly and leave a glossy finish with minimal final polishing required. If you are trying to work M105 for 5 passes the lubricating carrier oils in the compound will flash off leaving spent paint and abrasive particles to dust all over the place.

I have seen people spritz the pad with water, add baby oil to the mix, and other liquids to add working time to M105. In all of these cases you will have to keep in mind that all of these solutions will be diluting the cutting ability of the compound. Because of this I recommend simply working M105 in small sections for a couple passes, wipe away the residue and inspect the area. If defects remain, repeat the process again. I have also had good luck mixing M105 with D300 to extend the working time without sacrificing too much abrasive cutting ability.

3> In terms of pad priming. When you are working with a DA style polisher you want the maximum effectiveness of your pad working for you. If you have your pad fully and properly primed it means that the entire surface area of the pad will be working for you to level the paint. If there are dry areas on the pad those sections will not be polishing away paint as fast as the areas that are primed with compound or polish.

After your pad is primed you can simply add a few dots of compound or polish for each section of the vehicle you work on. In theory, even if you don't prime the pad by the time you have gone over a few sections it should be fully primed; however, if you prime the pad at first you will be working as efficiently as possible from the very first section pass.

Looking forward to the after pics. You working on your Model S?

[kevincwelch]

Well I have a few questions for you:

Did you prime your pad prior to polishing and compounding?

In this case no. I wasn't certain because I have watched a few videos of Mike not priming his pad before polishing, but I do distinctly recall the FAQ on how to prime your pad before polishing.



What kind of downward pressure did you use and what was your arm speed?


This I have not measured. It was enough to slightly deform the pad, and I was moving fairly slowly after it was spread out. I previously marked the plate, and it was rotating. Unfortunately, I can't give you more accurate information. I'll bring my polisher in and push down on a scale to get an idea for the next experiment. I feel like my speed was close to what I've seen Mike do and Junkman do on their videos. Certainly not exact, but I feel it to be comparable.



Now the question is can you live with [RIDS]?


yes.



The reason asking is because when working on a daily driver and factory clear coat you are already at a disadvantage as these baked on clears are so thin. I'd say if you got 85-90% of all defect removal then that's great IMO.


Ah ha. That concept had not registered with me. I suppose the reality is that many of these will come back with daily use. I'd just like to keep them to a minimum as you might imagine.

[kevincwelch]

Nicholas-

Great advice. Thanks!

Good to know that about m105. During the next test, I will inspect more frequently.

Yes, working on the Model S :eek:

I'll be testing the Menzerna as well over the next week.

[Kappy]

I have an additional question because I might find myself in the same situation very soon.

If you try a test using something like M205 on an orange pad, and don't get the results you want, is it okay to then try M105 on that same pad, or should that pad be set aside and a clean orange pad used? I would think that you wouldn't want to do that in reverse, but didn't know if it was okay to add a more aggressive polish to a pad that started with a less aggressive one.

[AutowerxDetailing]

I have an additional question because I might find myself in the same situation very soon.

If you try a test using something like M205 on an orange pad, and don't get the results you want, is it okay to then try M105 on that same pad, or should that pad be set aside and a clean orange pad used? I would think that you wouldn't want to do that in reverse, but didn't know if it was okay to add a more aggressive polish to a pad that started with a less aggressive one.

You could do that; however, keep in mind that on the next panel (or whenever you change your pad) you will not get the same results unless you prime the pad with M205 and then add M105 as working product.

The purpose of the test spot is to let you test what compound/polish/pad combination will work when replicated across the entire vehicle. If anything changes from the test spot (pads, product, technique [think getting tired, applying less pressure, etc.], ambient temp, different paint (respray), then you will get different results than what your test spot originally showed.

[Kappy]

You could do that; however, keep in mind that on the next panel (or whenever you change your pad) you will not get the same results unless you prime the pad with M205 and then add M105 as working product.

The purpose of the test spot is to let you test what compound/polish/pad combination will work when replicated across the entire vehicle. If anything changes from the test spot (pads, product, technique [think getting tired, applying less pressure, etc.], ambient temp, different paint (respray), then you will get different results than what your test spot originally showed.

Thanks. Very good information.