working with 30 some year old lacquer paint

[another-user]

ive got a 69 vette with single stage lacquer. to put it bluntly, the paint is shot and it needs a repaint, but i dont have the time or the money for it right now, so id like to get as much out of it as i can.

where would you advise that i start? machine buffing is out of the question, the paint is too fragile and is starting to flake off in a few areas

heres some pictures of it...
bare paint before washing
http://imageshack.us/a/img183/3497/dscf0578wb0.jpg
after washing and waxing, used nxt 2.0
http://imageshack.us/a/img90/9451/dscf0592op7.jpg

probably the best ive ever had it looking, but it only looks like that for a day or two before the wax begins to dull
http://imageshack.us/a/img444/7753/637955891bmmrfo.jpg

and i have never been able to figure out whats up with the yellow stripes. theyre paint, but ive never been able to get them to shine, and its like they absorb water/liquids when wash them, or spill something on them.
http://imageshack.us/a/img374/8066/dscf0599hz8.jpg

[5JAMES5]

This is a good post by Mike. It should help.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/25304-secret-removing-oxidation-restoring-show-car-finish-antique-single-stage-paints.html

[Evan.J]

In the finally photo I can see lots of lacquer cracking which is never good. and cannot be removed.

However you can follow the method used in the article.. M7 will definitely be needed on the car.

Oh and no need to make double posts we will get you the help you need!

[another-user]

ya, i was looking for a way to close this one after i posted the other one. and ya, the paint is cracking in some areas. i realize that i cant fix that without a respray. im just trying to get the most out of what i have left.

[Evan.J]

ya, i was looking for a way to close this one after i posted the other one. and ya, the paint is cracking in some areas. i realize that i cant fix that without a respray. im just trying to get the most out of what i have left.

Well read through that article that was posted. Using M7 Show Car Glaze has lots of oils that will adding in restoring gloss back into your paint. You will have to let M7 sit on the paint over night before removing it. :dblthumb2:


EDIT

Here is a recently single stage that Mike has worked on.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/63665-wayne-carini-1954-hudson-hornet-original-paint-restored-mike-phillips-3.html

[Mike Phillips]

Definitely get a bottle of Meguiar's #7 and rub the paint down really good with the #7. Use the product very wet, that means use a lot of it and let it soak in for at least a few hours.

The oils will migrate into the paint and do three things...


Bring out the full richness of color.
Revive the health of the paint.
Make the paint less dry and brittle and safer to abrade.



I consider restoring original, old and even antique single stage paint to be my specialty. Here's two recent single stage paint jobs I've restored with 100% success...

Wayne Carini 1954 Hudson Hornet Original Paint Restored by Mike Phillips (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/63665-wayne-carini-1954-hudson-hornet-original-paint-restored-mike-phillips.html)


Here's the before and after pictures. This is a car that Wayne has been chasing since he was 16 years old, that's over 40 years he's been trying to purchase this all original 1954 Hudson Hornet with the original paint.

Wayne asked me to use my method of restoring antique, original paint to preserve the paint on this car and in the process teach his painter and head detailer to do the same.

This was a landmark event in my detailing career and since I'm sending the link to this thread to Wayne I would just like to say,

Thank you Wayne for trusting me with your very beautiful 1954 Hudson Hornet.




Before

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1844/Wayne_Carini_Shop_Call_Autogeek_018.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1844/Wayne_Carini_Shop_Call_Autogeek_019.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1852/Mike_Phillips_Wayne_Carini_001.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1852/Mike_Phillips_Wayne_Carini_002.jpg


After

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1852/Mike_Phillips_Wayne_Carini_03.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1852/Mike_Phillips_Wayne_Carini_04.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1852/Mike_Phillips_Wayne_Carini_05.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1852/Mike_Phillips_Wayne_Carini_006.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1852/Mike_Phillips_Wayne_Carini_007.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1852/Mike_Phillips_Wayne_Carini_008.jpg


Forum member Fransisco and myself did this one just last weekend, we let the heavy coat of #7 sit on the paint overnight...

Look at the increase in DOI or Distinction of Image for the overhead light in the after picture...


1955 DeSoto Firedome - Antique Single Stage Paint Restoration (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/65008-1955-desoto-firedome-antique-single-stage-paint-restoration.html)


Before
This picture was taking with my trusty, dusty Canon Rebel on the A-DEP setting (Automatic Depth), with the flash on. Inside the building, this is exactly what the paint looked like at the time of the photo.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1893/1955_DeSoto_Firedome_001.jpg



After
This picture was taking with my trusty, dusty Canon Rebel on the A-DEP setting with the Flash on. Inside the building, this is exactly what the paint looked like at the time of the photo.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1893/1955_DeSoto_Firedome_002.jpg



I have a very special project coming up, it's an all original 1959 Cadillac with the original lacquer paint. Currently it's dry, brittle and oxidized. It's one of these...


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/860/CaddyKing003.jpg



:)

[Mike Phillips]

This is a good post by Mike. It should help.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/25304-secret-removing-oxidation-restoring-show-car-finish-antique-single-stage-paints.html



Here's the actual blue clickable link... I make the "title" to all my threads links to themselves so anyone can actually copy and paste the title to insert an actual industry standard looking "link".



The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/25304-secret-removing-oxidation-restoring-show-car-finish-antique-single-stage-paints.html)


Below is an excerpt. If I'm starting on neglected, oxidized single stage paint I'll use a 100% cotton terry cloth wash cloth.

If I'm working on single stage paint like shown in the pictures of your Corvette, that is little or no oxidation then I'll use a foam applicator pad.


Check out the section that shows the paper plate...



Removing Oxidation Without Abrasives
Now that all the bonded contaminants have been removed off the top of the paint it's time to remove the dead oxidized paint off the surface and to some degree some of the embedded dirt and oxidation below the surface. To do this we're going to use a plush, microfiber polishing towel with some Meguiar's #7 Show Car Glaze.


Always fold your microfiber towels 4 ways
What you want to do is take your polishing towel and fold it 4 ways to create a working cloth that is large enough you can place you hand on it when working the #7 over the paint. Folding the cloth 4 ways will also provide plenty of cushion to spread out the pressure of your fingers and palm. This enables you to work gently and safely on antique, fragile paints and will also help you to avoid instilling fingermarks (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/20496-finger-marks.html).

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/859/NonAbrasiveMethod011.jpg



Non-abrasive abrasives...
Here's a close-up of the tufts of microfibers that make up the working face of this microfiber polishing towel. When used dry this microfiber polishing towel is soft and absorbent. The way we're going to use it however, it will still be soft and gentle to the paint except that I'm going to put a little passion behind my hand (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/23568-put-little-passion-behind-pad-mike-phillips.html) as I move this microfiber towel over the paint and the pressure I apply is going to engage the microfibers with the paint and provide a very gentle scrubbing and even abrading action.


Tufts of microfiber threads... these are your abrasives...
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/859/NonAbrasiveMethod034.jpg



Shake well before using
Shake your bottle of #7 up exceedingly well. One of the reasons #7 used to come in clear glass bottles and later clear plastic bottles was so that you could see that the product had separated out and the hope was that as a thinking human being you would see the product had separated in the bottle and thus shake the bottle till the product had a uniform color and consistency.

After you shake the product up well you want to pour a generous amount of product out onto the face of just one side of your folded microfiber towel and note that you're going to use this one side for each panel over the entire car.

The words or terms for how much product you use goes like this,

Use the product heavy or wet

Because this is important, let me repeat these instructions...

Use the product heavy or wet!

This means you use a lot of product, you want the surface wet with product as you're working a section. You're trying to saturate the paint to gorge it with the rich polishing oils found in the #7 but you're also trying to emulsify and loosen any embedded dirt or oxidation off and out of the paint. For this car I used one full bottle on just the hood and the top of the trunk lid and most of another bottle for the passenger and driver's sides. The horizontal surfaces are always the worst because they are exposed to direct sunlight, water from rain and air-borne pollution and contaminants and thus always require the most work to clean, revitalize and restore.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/859/NonAbrasiveMethod012.jpg


Fold the cloth into itself to spread the product out and wet the face of the cloth.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/859/NonAbrasiveMethod013.jpg



"It ain't braggin' if you can back it up" -Dizzy Dean

Now comes the passion: Start working the #7 Show Car Glaze over and into the paint in a vigorous manner. I'm in pretty good shape as I work out at the local gym and lead an active lifestyle that includes rubbing out cars both by hand and by machine.

I also dare say I'm pretty good at rubbing out cars by hand. I'm not bragging, just stating a fact that I can back up. It's more work than most people think and my point is this, rubbing this behemoth of a vehicle out by hand vigorously got me breathing hard and made my hands and arms tired.

Here's the point I'm trying to make...

If you're not breathing hard and you're not getting tired then you're not working the product over the paint vigorously enough.

Out of all the steps, this is the hardest, most time-consuming and most important step there is to do and it is this step that will determine your end results. If you don't remove the topical oxidation and embedded dirt and oxidation during this step then it will still be there when you make the final wipe to remove the wax. So put your heart and soul into this step. If you need to, take a break in-between panels.


It is vital that you work the #7 against the paint vigorously...
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/859/NonAbrasiveMethod014.jpg



Rub out one panel at a time
After you work a small section, about 20" squarish or so, stop, re-apply fresh product and move onto a new section and be sure to overlap a little into the previous section.


Panel = a door, the hood, the roof, etc.
Section - a portion of a panel

Note the color being transferred onto the cloth. Part of the color you see is the color of the #7. The other part of the color is the dirt coming off and out of the paint and part of the color is the oxidation coming off the aluminum flakes.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/859/NonAbrasiveMethod015.jpg



Work a panel at a time, section by section
Continue working your way around one major panel until you've worked the entire panel. In this example


This is key...
Saturation Application --> The First Application
This is a mostly unknown technique and that is to let the first application penetrate and soak into the paint for up to 24 hours before wiping the product off. The idea being to really apply the product wet and work it in really well and the walk away.

The idea is to allow the heavy concentration of oils to penetrate and seep into the paint for maximum saturation before removing the product and continuing with the process. In this case I finished applying the first application of #7 around 9:00 pm and then left the #7 to soak in until the next day. I started wiping the product off then next morning right about 10:00am.

Some will argue if this works or not but my experience is that with a porous single stage paint it does in fact help. One thing for sure it can't hurt.

Paper Test for Capillary Action
If you place a few drops of #7 onto a piece of paper and then monitor it over a few days you will see the oils in the #7 migrate or seep away from the actual drop of product. It does this through capillary action and the same thing can work to your car's paints' advantage if it's a single stage lacquer or enamel paint.

I placed a few drops about the size of a nickel on a piece of standard printer paper around 3:00pm.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/859/7CapillaryAction01.jpg

The next day I took these pictures at approximately 10:00am, (19 hours later), note how the oils in the drops of #7 have migrated outward via capillary action.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/859/7CapillaryAction02.jpg

Feeder Oils penetrate or feed the paint
This same effect can take place in a single stage paint but not only will the oils travel horizontally, they will also travel vertically, that they will penetrate downward "into" your car's paint and this is where the term feeder oils comes from as the oils penetrate into or feed the paint. The result is they will condition the paint restoring some level of workability as compared to just working on old dry paint, and they will also bring out the full richness of color, something that will showcase the beauty of your car's paint.



37 Year Old Paint Soaking in Seven...
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/859/NonAbrasiveMethod016.jpg


The worse condition the paint, the more times you repeat the #7 conditioning step
For this project I applied, worked and removed the #7 four times to the hood and tops of the fenders. After the initial saturation application I applied and worked in the #7 three more times the next day.

I put as much energy into the last application as I did the first application and in order to do this right it takes the desire for excellent results as well as the human elements of care and passion to rub out a hood 6' long and almost 5' in width 4 times like your life depended upon it but the results will be worth it.



After approximately 12 hours of soaking in #7 Show Car Glaze, we're ready to wipe off the first application off this 37-year old paint.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/859/NonAbrasiveMethod017.jpg



Sorry for the late reply, working on hot project today in the studio...


:D

[another-user]

after letting #7 do its thing, do i just coat that with any wax of my choosing? i was kind of looking at using zaino with it. most of the corvette guys around me use it, and only wax their cars about once or twice a year, and occasionally wipe it down with detailing spray. it seems to hold up great, where as my nxt is gone within 2 weeks or so.

[Mike Phillips]

after letting #7 do its thing, do i just coat that with any wax of my choosing?

i was kind of looking at using zaino with it. most of the corvette guys around me use it, and only wax their cars about once or twice a year, and occasionally wipe it down with detailing spray. it seems to hold up great, where as my nxt is gone within 2 weeks or so.




Just a guess... but are the guys you're talking about using Zaino using it on newer Corvettes that have a modern clear coat?

Huge difference between taking care of a new clear coat and resurrection an old single stage back from the dead AND then keeping it looking like the clear coat on a NEW Corvette.

From my experience, older single stage paints need at a minimum, some type of occasional re-polishing to maintain that "just waxed look". Even if it's with a light cleaner/wax.

Single stage paints will oxidize while clear coat paints swirl. There's a difference. See my article here,

The practical differences between single stage paints and a clear coat paints (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/21924-practical-differences-between-single-stage-paints-clear-coat-paints.html)


But to your question...

Zaino makes a sealant for single stage paints, I think it's Z5. You should consider this instead of the Z2 guys with clear coated new Corvettes are using.

Even with the Z5 your old single stage paint is not going to retain that glassy look like a well-kept modern clear coat over time.

Also, after you rub the #7 in and let it soak, the wipe it off, this will take some elbow grease so use very clean, soft terry cloth towels, (best), or microfiber towels, (second best choice), and then you can go ahead and wax it.

Note if you want to use Zaino they recommend an oil free surface and to chemically strip the oils off the paint you just coated with the oily #7 is going to undo what you just did.

Old single stage paints like the oils in #7. If you read my article, not just scan it, I explain that this product has been around since the paint on your car was invented and even older. No other product can make that claim. The oils in the #7 are very interesting, not going to say much more about them except to say there are a lot of people that have never used #7 to restore or maintain a single stage paint that was IMPORTANT to them and then after they used it they became #7 believers. And that would be true for about as long as the Model T has been around.


Feel free to do as like though... maybe experiment...

Perhaps others will chime in with their experience.


And for what it's worth, I've used Zaino enough to really know the product line. I count Sal Zaino as a very good friend and I've written a 65 page report called "The Zaino Case Study".


IF it were my Corvette I'd probably rub it down with the #7 and then use a premium quality Carnauba wax to maintain it. Once in a while, turn the radio on and just give the old Vette a warming over to restore that "just waxed look"


:)

[Mike Phillips]

The below was done by a guy named Craig after attending my Detailing Boot Camp Class and learning the art of polishing paint and also reading my article on restoring single stage paint.



1971 Dodge Coronet Original Paint Extreme Makeover with Meguiar's #7 Show Car Glaze (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-n-shine/62605-1971-dodge-coronet-original-paint-extreme-makeover-meguiar-s-7-show-car-glaze.html)



Before

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/1971_Dodge_Single_Stage_009.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/1971_Dodge_Single_Stage_010.jpg



After

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/1971_Dodge_Single_Stage_011.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/1971_Dodge_Single_Stage_012.jpg




Not bad for his first try....


:D

[hernandez.art13]

Yep no. 7 does wonders, thanks to Mike Phillips and AG, I discovered it.

18703

After letting Meguiar's cure I believe you can apply a wax to protect it. I used Collinite 476s, thanks to Junkman

It can all be done by hand too. Just work gentle and clean!

Pictures are always interesting to see, especially before and after pictures.

[BucboyInPa]

Paint or no paint,What a BEAUTIFUL car.

[another-user]

i just ordered the #7, so hopefully that will be here for next weekend. while im here, ive got 2 other questions.

1. what do you recommend for chrome? ive been using mothers aluminum polish, and thats seemed to work well so far, but im sure theres something better out there too.

2. i see theres various wax removes out there. is there anything thats better than others at removing old wax buildup? ive never found a good way at removing the excess build up that accumulates in cracks, or around the edges where the paint has chipped off.

[steamshooter]

Is anyone else hearing Bruce Springsteen?
I got a 69 Chevy with a 396, fuelie heads and a hurst on the floor?
Have you got a partner named Sonny? :joking: Time to go racing in the streets.
Been a long time since I touched lacquer. M07 all the way. Great looking car. The paint will suck it up like a sponge.

[Mike Phillips]

i just ordered the #7, so hopefully that will be here for next weekend. while im here, ive got 2 other questions.

1. what do you recommend for chrome? ive been using mothers aluminum polish, and thats seemed to work well so far, but im sure theres something better out there too.




For chrome trim, I'll tend to use whatever compound or polish I'm already using on the paint and use it on the chrome. I will switch over to a wool pad and a rotary buffer to apply it.

You can also use any quality chrome or aluminum or metal polish with a rotary buffer and a wool pad, see my article here,

How To Machine Polish Oxidized Aluminum Diamond Plate (http://www.marine31online.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50)



And note that my good friend and pro detailer Jeff Bell buffed out all the chrome on my new truck using Blackfire Metal Polish using a wool pad and a rotary buffer...

1987 Chevy 4x4 Monster Truck "Before & After" Pictures (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/pictures-autogeek-s-car-week/64823-1987-chevy-4x4-monster-truck-before-after-pictures.html)

Here's Jeff working on the front grill and bumper, I'll see if I have a picture of him while he's buffing on the chrome.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1862/1987_Chevy_Moster_Truck_072.jpg


One thing for sure, when he was buffing out the chrome a lot of gunk was coming off both the front and rear bumper, possibly overspray from when the truck was painted but now the chrome glistens!

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1862/1987_Chevy_Moster_Truck_077.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1862/1987_Chevy_Moster_Truck_079.jpg






2. i see theres various wax removes out there. is there anything thats better than others at removing old wax buildup? ive never found a good way at removing the excess build up that accumulates in cracks, or around the edges where the paint has chipped off.



Best way is the painstaking way and that's just use a toothbrush, a cloth or whatever you can get to get into where the dried wax is and get it out. An All Purpose Cleaner or even a spray detailer can also help.

I have an article on this topic but it's not on how to get the wax out of the cracks but because I hate this problem so much I always tape everything off.

Of course, this doesn't help when you're playing clean-up after the OTHER GUY!


TOGW = The Other Guy's Wax (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/21283-togw-other-guy-s-wax.html)


This is called, TOGW, pronounced, togwa.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/747/57TuqChev008.jpg



Here's a close-up of TOGW
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/747/57TuqChev008c.jpg


TOGW stands for The Other Guy's Wax.



And here's a few more related articles...



Taping-off and Covering Up

How to cover and protect a convertible top before machine buffing (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/48328-how-cover-protect-convertible-top-before-machine-buffing.html)

The Beach Towel Tip (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tricks-tips-techniques/30894-beach-towel-tip.html)

The Soft Flannel Bed Sheet Tip (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tricks-tips-techniques/34828-soft-flannel-bed-sheet-tip.html)

Tips on Taping Off Thin Paint and Chipped Paint (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tricks-tips-techniques/31818-tips-taping-off-thin-paint-chipped-paint.html)

Tape it off and avoid a lifetime of ugly... (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tricks-tips-techniques/29951-tape-off-avoid-lifetime-ugly.html)

Best Practice - Avoid buffing on top of body lines and edges (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/rough-draft/20168-best-practice-avoid-buffing-top-body-lines-edges.html)



:D