How Much To Charge

[MikeyL95]

I know this type of thread has been beaten already, but I wanted more detailed due to my demographics.

I'm a hobbyist detailer and could use the extra money.
I'm an 18 year old in a small kind of small Alabama town.

A buddy and me are looking into detailing together and splitting the money.

I have mostly higher quality products (most can be found on this site) and I also have a Griot's Garage random orbital polisher.

I'm curious as to if I should charge by package such as wash/wax, wash/clay/wax, etc. and have some add-on services such as vacuum, polish, compound, etc. or if I should charge by the hour.

Also, should I do it alone or with a buddy? We were thinking while I clayed and waxed he could do the interior to try and speed up the working time.

[MikeyL95]

Also, I have talked to two friends of mine about doings one's silverado and the other's tahoe at $150 each for interior/exterior clean. Not sure whether that'll include a polish with the GG or not.

Any feedback?

[randy00013]

here you go ^_^ How to make money detailing cars - Auto Geek Online Auto Detailing Forum (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-make-money-detailing-cars/)

[Theo_Auto_Fines]

Well if you are just starting out $150 for SUV's are a steal, but then again if you charge what I normally charge you'd prolly scare 'em away. Bottomline is profit will eventually show up down the road but for now just consider it as money to test out products and perhaps buy some more equipment.

[cardaddy]

Welcome to AGO Mikey! :D

You charge what you are worth. Don't get caught up in trying to beat some other guys pricing as that'll just cheapen what you're trying to do.

I had a guy the other day look at my services menu, and on the first page it has the cheapest stuff, the "Basic Wash & Wax" plus some add on's. This guy drives a $60,000 pickup truck and owns both a jewelry store and a gun store and with a quick glance at the prices he said "You're too high!". No idea of what I do and how I do it, (although the steps are on the menu, including snow foaming, claying, Nanoskin, extra washing and rinsing, etc.) which CLEARLY show I'm not in the business of just washing cars. Yet that was his first, knee jerk reaction.

The reality is I only offer that basic package for customers that have already had a detail package done. If they come to me just wanting a car wash I typically don't do it.

My reply was "Not for WHAT I DO! Nobody around here does what I do, and I'll put my quality up against anybody's."

He looked puzzled and that's when I told him that if he wanted his truck washed with some old rags that have been getting used since God knows when, and dried with old bath towels that keep putting scratches in his paint that he is getting exactly what he's paying for. But when he decides to get it done RIGHT, and wants to see what a REAL detailer does then he knows my number. The old saying, "Good stuff ain't cheap, and cheap stuff ain't good" has never been so true. And then I followed by telling him that even my basic "wash & wax" takes from 2 to 3 hours, not 20 minutes like what he's been getting. (So he's actually getting a MUCH better deal from me were he paying hourly.)

Would you be better offering packages? IMHO yes! Established detailers can start commanding hourly rates, but startup guys just don't have the customer feedback to command set hourly rates.

At the end of the day it is about what you want, and what you are comfortable with doing. Would I also have a friend with me on every job? If I knew I could depend on him, and it would help me grow the business, you BET! Taking your time to do a job right, and do each and every car as if it were your own is a great thing to shoot for. However, that takes a lot of time. You would be better off charging what you want, selling the packages as actually taking X amount of man hours to do, and letting your customers know that they are getting a LOT of work done for their money.

I had a guy ask me recently if I'd rather do 5 cars a day 2 days a week, or 1 car for 2 days a week. I said I'd rather work on 1 car for 2 days. Not that I would work any less than hard than if I were knocking out 5 cars a day, BUT.... that the product I turned out after spending 2 days on a SINGLE car would be far superior. The quality of that work is much more likely to get me return work than 5 quick car washes. Moreover, it would be the type of work I'd rather do!

Now with that I will admit I can afford to take a different approach than most. I treat detailing as a hobby, even when I'm charging for it. I do it at my speed, and I charge what I'm comfortable with making. Is that $50~$75 an hour? He!! no! But even when I'm moving slow it'll be in the $25~$30 an hour range, and even if it drops to $20 it's not the end of the world. I also don't need to do it to feed the family so that takes pressure off as well.

The reality of selling yourself though is you have to believe you can get what you want, and your customers have to believe that YOU are WORTH what you tell them you are wanting. If you talk the talk, then walk the walk. Price shoppers call and I'll know right away if they really want what I am offering. If they are not prepared to pay for it, then so be it. The guy that goes into a Mercedes dealership isn't planning on paying KIA prices. Its all about deciding if you want to be the KIA guy or the Mercedes guy. Both need their cars detailed, but one will be willing to pay what it's worth. (The other just wants a quick car wash.) ;)

[MikeyL95]

Welcome to AGO Mikey! :D

You charge what you are worth. Don't get caught up in trying to beat some other guys pricing as that'll just cheapen what you're trying to do.

I had a guy the other day look at my services menu, and on the first page it has the cheapest stuff, the "Basic Wash & Wax" plus some add on's. This guy drives a $60,000 pickup truck and owns both a jewelry store and a gun store and with a quick glance at the prices he said "You're too high!". No idea of what I do and how I do it, (although the steps are on the menu, including snow foaming, claying, Nanoskin, extra washing and rinsing, etc.) which CLEARLY show I'm not in the business of just washing cars. Yet that was his first, knee jerk reaction.

The reality is I only offer that basic package for customers that have already had a detail package done. If they come to me just wanting a car wash I typically don't do it.

My reply was "Not for WHAT I DO! Nobody around here does what I do, and I'll put my quality up against anybody's."

He looked puzzled and that's when I told him that if he wanted his truck washed with some old rags that have been getting used since God knows when, and dried with old bath towels that keep putting scratches in his paint that he is getting exactly what he's paying for. But when he decides to get it done RIGHT, and wants to see what a REAL detailer does then he knows my number. The old saying, "Good stuff ain't cheap, and cheap stuff ain't good" has never been so true. And then I followed by telling him that even my basic "wash & wax" takes from 2 to 3 hours, not 20 minutes like what he's been getting. (So he's actually getting a MUCH better deal from me were he paying hourly.)

Would you be better offering packages? IMHO yes! Established detailers can start commanding hourly rates, but startup guys just don't have the customer feedback to command set hourly rates.

At the end of the day it is about what you want, and what you are comfortable with doing. Would I also have a friend with me on every job? If I knew I could depend on him, and it would help me grow the business, you BET! Taking your time to do a job right, and do each and every car as if it were your own is a great thing to shoot for. However, that takes a lot of time. You would be better off charging what you want, selling the packages as actually taking X amount of man hours to do, and letting your customers know that they are getting a LOT of work done for their money.

I had a guy ask me recently if I'd rather do 5 cars a day 2 days a week, or 1 car for 2 days a week. I said I'd rather work on 1 car for 2 days. Not that I would work any less than hard than if I were knocking out 5 cars a day, BUT.... that the product I turned out after spending 2 days on a SINGLE car would be far superior. The quality of that work is much more likely to get me return work than 5 quick car washes. Moreover, it would be the type of work I'd rather do!

Now with that I will admit I can afford to take a different approach than most. I treat detailing as a hobby, even when I'm charging for it. I do it at my speed, and I charge what I'm comfortable with making. Is that $50~$75 an hour? He!! no! But even when I'm moving slow it'll be in the $25~$30 an hour range, and even if it drops to $20 it's not the end of the world. I also don't need to do it to feed the family so that takes pressure off as well.

The reality of selling yourself though is you have to believe you can get what you want, and your customers have to believe that YOU are WORTH what you tell them you are wanting. If you talk the talk, then walk the walk. Price shoppers call and I'll know right away if they really want what I am offering. If they are not prepared to pay for it, then so be it. The guy that goes into a Mercedes dealership isn't planning on paying KIA prices. Its all about deciding if you want to be the KIA guy or the Mercedes guy. Both need their cars detailed, but one will be willing to pay what it's worth. (The other just wants a quick car wash.) ;)

Thanks for the info!

Like I stated, I'm charging $150 for a pretty thorough detail on a silverado and tahoe for two friends. One's mom drives an escalade and pays about the same for a local shop to detail and the other drives a BMW. The friend who may work with me has family who would pay to help start off.

I want to offer basic packages for DD cars who don't care about swirls as long as it's "clean" and then offer higher packages for people who want it wash, compounded, polished, waxed, polish metal, full interior detail, etc.

Any idea as far as pricing goes? The buddy has been my friend for 4 years and we've detailed our cars together on several occasions so I trust him. Surprisingly he prefers interior and I prefer exterior so I thought it may could end in quicker detail times.

[MikeyL95]

Since I'm just doing this for people locally at my house, do I need to set up a LLC or anything and do I need to file taxes?

I'm moving in the fall and don't know if I'll be able to continue the job while at college.

[Mach1USMC]

Since I'm just doing this for people locally at my house, do I need to set up a LLC or anything and do I need to file taxes?

I'm moving in the fall and don't know if I'll be able to continue the job while at college.

Being licensed and bonded is going to be necessary if you are doing this as something other than a hobby. Get insurance too. And yes, if this is a no kidding business you absolutely need to keep detailed records and file your taxes. Also, you may want to check your local zoning covenants (or HOA) to make sure you're good to do a business out of your home.

Good luck.

[MikeyL95]

Being licensed and bonded is going to be necessary if you are doing this as something other than a hobby. Get insurance too. And yes, if this is a no kidding business you absolutely need to keep detailed records and file your taxes. Also, you may want to check your local zoning covenants (or HOA) to make sure you're good to do a business out of your home.

Good luck.

I mean I'd just be doing it during the summer to make a little extra money and I may have to stop in the fall because I'm moving 3-1/2 hours away for college

[cardaddy]

Thanks for the info!

Like I stated, I'm charging $150 for a pretty thorough detail on a silverado and tahoe for two friends. One's mom drives an escalade and pays about the same for a local shop to detail and the other drives a BMW. The friend who may work with me has family who would pay to help start off.

I want to offer basic packages for DD cars who don't care about swirls as long as it's "clean" and then offer higher packages for people who want it wash, compounded, polished, waxed, polish metal, full interior detail, etc.

Any idea as far as pricing goes? The buddy has been my friend for 4 years and we've detailed our cars together on several occasions so I trust him. Surprisingly he prefers interior and I prefer exterior so I thought it may could end in quicker detail times.


Since I'm just doing this for people locally at my house, do I need to set up a LLC or anything and do I need to file taxes?

I'm moving in the fall and don't know if I'll be able to continue the job while at college.

Yes you want to keep up with the income. There is a chance you *may* get away with it, being as the IRS rules are generally that if someone doesn't pay you more than $600 a year they don't have to file on you. That being said, if you make anything you need to report it. That doesn't mean what you make will ultimately be "taxable income".

If you keep up with all your expenses, all your electric bills, gas bills (for the pressure washer) all your supplies. Then don't worry about actual expenses for your vehicle, just keep up with mileage and claim mileage expenses. Write down on the calendar each day where you go, how far, and total it up.

Once you total up all your income, then subtract all your expenses, whatever is left is "taxable income".

As far as you and your buddy. A good rule of thumb would be the business gets half of everything then you and him split the rest. Take a $100 sale, throw $50 into the business then both of you split the other $50. ALTHOUGH... in the early stages you will have substantial expenses that can be the entire $100.

Also, when starting the business you'll have initial "owner cash contribution". Whether that's real cash from buying supplies, or stuff that you've put on a credit card. The business WILL NEED TO PAY YOU BACK.

Get a bookkeeping system, whether it's something as simple as Quicken or Microsoft Money or as advanced as QuickBooks (which is awesome btw, but REALLY expensive for a start-up, part-time business). You really need to have software keep up with your business though as that's just something else you don't have to do. Do a quick log on and it'll download all the latest data from your bank.

Speaking of banking, go to the IRS website and file for a EIN, Employer Identification Number. That's the TAX ID you'll need for vendors and your bank. If your family has been banking with the same bank for a long time they MAY be willing to let you open a business checking account without a business license, as long as you have the EIN. Just explain to them that it's a part-time, summer business and you're a student. Banks generally will work with you on stuff like that. (I hate paying cities and counties their predatory fees for licenses, but that's just me.) ;)

Insurance has been mentioned. YES it's a good idea, but many have said they'll work without it. Depends on who you're working for, and IF you NEVER have anyone come back to you wanting you to pay for damages.

For instance; Last weekend (Mothers Day weekend) my wife and I worked on one of my doctors vehicles, a Lexus LX470. We spent 7 hours together (14 man hours) just on the interior, plus I had another 7+ washing and doing an AIO (Megs D151) on the exterior. Overall that's about 22 total hours into the vehicle.

When we picked it up, the left rear roof rail cover piece was missing, and I noted it on the Mike Phillips Vehicle Inspection Form, along with all the other assorted items on the exterior. When we delivered it back to the doctor he wasn't at home, but his wife was (it's her truck). That was Monday... and he called me when he got home asking if perhaps we had *misplaced* the part at our shop. I told him we would have never removed it, and I noted it on the inspection form. Thought that was that.

Come Friday he called me and asked if I had INSURANCE because his wife is "very upset about the missing part". I told him that insurance would not cover that anyhow because it is less than the deductible. And he was of the mind that he'd just call his next door neighbor (his State Farm Agent) and file a claim. I told him that he would still pay for the part because unless he had a ZERO deductible that he would indeed be out of pocket.

At that point I could tell he was somewhat frustrated, although more at how to get his wife to STFU rather than at us. ;) And I told him I'd check into it and get back to him as I have accounts at several car dealerships and would be more than happy to pass on my discount to him.

With just a little searching it was VERY EASY TO DETERMINE that the roof rail covers fall off those trucks, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU DRIVE THEM THROUGH CAR WASHES! (As that black Lexus had been done over and over again.) It was also easy to find the part, part number, and a price. So I called him and told him I could get it at the Lexus dealership (it had to be ordered) and what the price was and asked how he would like to proceed. At that point if he wanted me to order it (on my dime) then I'd need his card number to charge him for it. He said he would pay for it and pick it up so I said I'll call him right back with a delivery date. Quick call to the Lexus parts counter (because I needed to setup ANOTHER wholesale account with them, just for that part) and told the guy the situation and that my customer, (the Doctor) would be coming by to pay for it. Very easy to handle at that point, and he ordered it without needing my business card.

The moral of that story however is had I needed to file an insurance claim to satisfy the guy, and not had insurance then it'd been a problem. Even though insurance would never have been involved due to the price at less than $70. Yet if a customer pushes it, they'll insist on your insurance information. One way to protect yourself there is don't have anything business related in your name. No cars, no property, nothing. This is where a LLC pays for itself then thousand fold. They have to file suit against the company, not you personally, (although at some point they may try to come after you, but if you own nothing any decent attorney would tell them it's not worth it to come after you as an individual).

Insurance can run from a few hundred a year to several thousand. Just depends on what coverage, and what deductibles. :dunno: This is something you'll have to weigh out your risk and odds and figure if you're willing to foot the bill should something come up. Like I said, some go without it and do just fine. I know there was NO FREAKING WAY I'd ever had let that turn into an insurance claim, NOT AT ALL!!! Would be very safe to set aside $500 and not touch it as your "self insured" account. When and if someone comes up with something it's often easier to just pay them than let it escalate to something that could cost you down the road.

Pricing for jobs....
My lowest price (other than the "Basic Wash & Wax" which is as basic as it comes, and starts at $40, when they COME TO ME) is what I call an "Basic Exterior Only" starts at $150. It is a fairly thorough exterior job (although not the most extreme) and includes claying or Nanoskin-ing but DOES NOT include any buffing. There are options that can be added, such as a single stage AIO buffing or even a dual-stage package ($75~$125). The thing is, by the time you add the AIO ($50~$75) and just one more 'add-on' its more cost effective to step up to the Level 2 Interior Exterior Detail, (starting at $275) which does include an AIO buffing and a sealant or wax of customers choice. ;)

Or they can, if they want interior and exterior (but still no buffing) opt for the Level 1 which starts at $220.

Be careful about your wording and DO NOT tell people they are getting a "Full Detail" as they'll come back at you expecting a full buff or paint correction and sealant, waxes, you freaking name it.

[ExoticAutoDetai]

Wow some very useful info from Cardaddy :xyxthumbs:

[MikeyL95]

Yes you want to keep up with the income. There is a chance you *may* get away with it, being as the IRS rules are generally that if someone doesn't pay you more than $600 a year they don't have to file on you. That being said, if you make anything you need to report it. That doesn't mean what you make will ultimately be "taxable income".

If you keep up with all your expenses, all your electric bills, gas bills (for the pressure washer) all your supplies. Then don't worry about actual expenses for your vehicle, just keep up with mileage and claim mileage expenses. Write down on the calendar each day where you go, how far, and total it up.

Once you total up all your income, then subtract all your expenses, whatever is left is "taxable income".

As far as you and your buddy. A good rule of thumb would be the business gets half of everything then you and him split the rest. Take a $100 sale, throw $50 into the business then both of you split the other $50. ALTHOUGH... in the early stages you will have substantial expenses that can be the entire $100.

Also, when starting the business you'll have initial "owner cash contribution". Whether that's real cash from buying supplies, or stuff that you've put on a credit card. The business WILL NEED TO PAY YOU BACK.

Get a bookkeeping system, whether it's something as simple as Quicken or Microsoft Money or as advanced as QuickBooks (which is awesome btw, but REALLY expensive for a start-up, part-time business). You really need to have software keep up with your business though as that's just something else you don't have to do. Do a quick log on and it'll download all the latest data from your bank.

Speaking of banking, go to the IRS website and file for a EIN, Employer Identification Number. That's the TAX ID you'll need for vendors and your bank. If your family has been banking with the same bank for a long time they MAY be willing to let you open a business checking account without a business license, as long as you have the EIN. Just explain to them that it's a part-time, summer business and you're a student. Banks generally will work with you on stuff like that. (I hate paying cities and counties their predatory fees for licenses, but that's just me.) ;)

Insurance has been mentioned. YES it's a good idea, but many have said they'll work without it. Depends on who you're working for, and IF you NEVER have anyone come back to you wanting you to pay for damages.

For instance; Last weekend (Mothers Day weekend) my wife and I worked on one of my doctors vehicles, a Lexus LX470. We spent 7 hours together (14 man hours) just on the interior, plus I had another 7+ washing and doing an AIO (Megs D151) on the exterior. Overall that's about 22 total hours into the vehicle.

When we picked it up, the left rear roof rail cover piece was missing, and I noted it on the Mike Phillips Vehicle Inspection Form, along with all the other assorted items on the exterior. When we delivered it back to the doctor he wasn't at home, but his wife was (it's her truck). That was Monday... and he called me when he got home asking if perhaps we had *misplaced* the part at our shop. I told him we would have never removed it, and I noted it on the inspection form. Thought that was that.

Come Friday he called me and asked if I had INSURANCE because his wife is "very upset about the missing part". I told him that insurance would not cover that anyhow because it is less than the deductible. And he was of the mind that he'd just call his next door neighbor (his State Farm Agent) and file a claim. I told him that he would still pay for the part because unless he had a ZERO deductible that he would indeed be out of pocket.

At that point I could tell he was somewhat frustrated, although more at how to get his wife to STFU rather than at us. ;) And I told him I'd check into it and get back to him as I have accounts at several car dealerships and would be more than happy to pass on my discount to him.

With just a little searching it was VERY EASY TO DETERMINE that the roof rail covers fall off those trucks, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU DRIVE THEM THROUGH CAR WASHES! (As that black Lexus had been done over and over again.) It was also easy to find the part, part number, and a price. So I called him and told him I could get it at the Lexus dealership (it had to be ordered) and what the price was and asked how he would like to proceed. At that point if he wanted me to order it (on my dime) then I'd need his card number to charge him for it. He said he would pay for it and pick it up so I said I'll call him right back with a delivery date. Quick call to the Lexus parts counter (because I needed to setup ANOTHER wholesale account with them, just for that part) and told the guy the situation and that my customer, (the Doctor) would be coming by to pay for it. Very easy to handle at that point, and he ordered it without needing my business card.

The moral of that story however is had I needed to file an insurance claim to satisfy the guy, and not had insurance then it'd been a problem. Even though insurance would never have been involved due to the price at less than $70. Yet if a customer pushes it, they'll insist on your insurance information. One way to protect yourself there is don't have anything business related in your name. No cars, no property, nothing. This is where a LLC pays for itself then thousand fold. They have to file suit against the company, not you personally, (although at some point they may try to come after you, but if you own nothing any decent attorney would tell them it's not worth it to come after you as an individual).

Insurance can run from a few hundred a year to several thousand. Just depends on what coverage, and what deductibles. :dunno: This is something you'll have to weigh out your risk and odds and figure if you're willing to foot the bill should something come up. Like I said, some go without it and do just fine. I know there was NO FREAKING WAY I'd ever had let that turn into an insurance claim, NOT AT ALL!!! Would be very safe to set aside $500 and not touch it as your "self insured" account. When and if someone comes up with something it's often easier to just pay them than let it escalate to something that could cost you down the road.

Pricing for jobs....
My lowest price (other than the "Basic Wash & Wax" which is as basic as it comes, and starts at $40, when they COME TO ME) is what I call an "Basic Exterior Only" starts at $150. It is a fairly thorough exterior job (although not the most extreme) and includes claying or Nanoskin-ing but DOES NOT include any buffing. There are options that can be added, such as a single stage AIO buffing or even a dual-stage package ($75~$125). The thing is, by the time you add the AIO ($50~$75) and just one more 'add-on' its more cost effective to step up to the Level 2 Interior Exterior Detail, (starting at $275) which does include an AIO buffing and a sealant or wax of customers choice. ;)

Or they can, if they want interior and exterior (but still no buffing) opt for the Level 1 which starts at $220.

Be careful about your wording and DO NOT tell people they are getting a "Full Detail" as they'll come back at you expecting a full buff or paint correction and sealant, waxes, you freaking name it.

thanks cardaddy, so I should talk to my buddy about setting aside half for the business?

I know some about start up costs. Since I use all of my products on my own car too I just bought more quality stuff, mostly Chemical Guys since I've always had luck with them and the price on Detailer's Club is good for them. I spent roughly $250 because most of my previous towels were the cheap ones from walmart/autozone and I also bought grit guards and polish and compound so I could have better products for this unless someone wants the cheaper stuff. If they specifically want Meguiar's wax from walmart instead of CG XXX or Autoglym HD I won't make them do it.

So I need to get an EIN and file taxes? My mom has been doing taxes for longer than I've been alive (I'm 18) and she also said I'd need to file taxes. If it's a one or two man operation do I need to get a license or insurance?

I'm in an automotive class at school so I know to inspect the car prior to any work and either tell the customer about the prior damage and/or document it with a picture of anything like the missing roof rail you mentioned.

[MikeyL95]

For taxes and other things like that, would it be better for me to do it alone or with my buddy?

[MikeyL95]

I'm looking into a Sole Proprietorship or an LLC and I'll most likely go solo as to not get my buddy involved with my taxes.

[andy2485]

Ok... so is this something you want to do full time? Are you in it for the long hall? If so you should start keeping track of your expenses. How much do you need to charge to make money? How much are you spending on supplies, and whatnot? How much are you going to pay your buddy? Do you have to pay rent anywhere? If you're just doing this as a hobby and to make a few extra $$$ then you can maybe ho without keeping track of your cash flow, if not then you need to. How are you marketing?