What to do for spider web

[akj]

OK so I just did a test spot on my 2013 black Kia. I have light swirls over the whole car I tested m205 on a white pad and I needed more cut so I stayed with 205 and went to an orange pad. When I got it in the sun light I still seen the spider webs. I thought the swirls was deeper than those. So what would be the next step? I don't want to go up to 105 cause I'm afraid that's to much cut.
Any info?

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[CM8 6MT]

LoL your still not dont with your test spot, you need to move up to the next level of agressiveness. Ive never dealt with Kia paint, but I did work on a Nissan last night.....

http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp230/Diabolic/image_zpsae6a3606.jpg

The paint is trashed, with crows feet & deliberate scratches/horrid swirls.

http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp230/Diabolic/image_zps1b3e369f.jpg

After claying, using UC & M205 the paint cleared up rather well. Theres still pitting & CC cracks, but the overall appearance was dramatically improved.

Only you can determine what product youll need, go back to step 1 and re-try your test spot with the next level product. Until you gain more experience youll be able to gauge what product youll need to be able to correct based on your initial test spot results.
http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp230/Diabolic/chart_zpsbe6d672f.jpg

[akj]

Thank u..
What about the megs mf da correction compound? Is it more aggressive than 205? Less aggressive than 105? I would like to, if I have to step up in aggression only step up the next lowest level.
What about 205 with a yellow pad? To aggressive pad with 205?
Any recommendations? Or thoughts?

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[akj]

Bump**

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[CM8 6MT]

Thank u..
What about the megs mf da correction compound? Is it more aggressive than 205? Less aggressive than 105? I would like to, if I have to step up in aggression only step up the next lowest level.
What about 205 with a yellow pad? To aggressive pad with 205?
Any recommendations? Or thoughts?

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Megs D300+ a MF pad is more aggresive than M105 with a foam pad. M105 alone is more aggresive than D300, but combine D300 with its designed MF pad, you will get a heavier cut and finish way better than M105 could.

No, dont use M205 with a yellow pad. Why would you use a heavy cutting pad with a finishing polish? You can only go from a polishing pad and down, if that makes any sense. For example a white lc pad, then going from white to lets say a gray pad for less cut.

Do a test spot again, and this time step up to Ultimate Compound. If you happen to have ScratchX on hand, you might be able to get away with that. Regardless, you need UC in your detail arsenall its a great compound.

[akj]

I have uc.. I just wasn't sure if that was to much cut.. what pad would b best? Orange?
Should I try scratch x first? If so what pad to go with there? I assume orange since orange with 205 wasn't enough right?

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[Fishincricket]

Is there any possibilitythat your aggressive combo is knocking out the deeps scratches and leaving swirls of its own? Maybe you should follow up with a polish and see if that alleviates the issue?

[akj]

Is there any possibilitythat your aggressive combo is knocking out the deeps scratches and leaving swirls of its own? Maybe you should follow up with a polish and see if that alleviates the issue?

Very possible.. but white pad with 205 didn't get out swirls so I stepped up to 205 with orange pad swirls gone but spider web not.. I'm using the PC so I wouldn't think I'm leaving them but can't know for sure. Maybe I'll just step on up to uc.
Should I use uc with the orange, white, or yellow pad?

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[CM8 6MT]

Very possible.. but white pad with 205 didn't get out swirls so I stepped up to 205 with orange pad swirls gone but spider web not.. I'm using the PC so I wouldn't think I'm leaving them but can't know for sure. Maybe I'll just step on up to uc.
Should I use uc with the orange, white, or yellow pad?

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Negative, I dont use LC pads for polishing but I do know quite a bit about them. DO NOT use M205 with an orange, or yellow pad or any other pad above their white pad, especially on soft paint.

I know what your thinking, M205 wasnt cutting it with a white pad so step up pad agressiveness right? Wrong.

You need to step up the level of Abrasiveness at that point. Your working backwards by using a pad that is designed for compounding, not for a fine polish.

You can vary the level of cut of a compound by adjusting how much pressure you put on the DA, and by pad type. However, you cant do that with a fine polish, you can only adjust its cut to a finer level. I hope all this makes sense to you, im not exactly good at explaining things sometimes.

Anyhow, try UC on a orange pad, then follow up with M205 on a white pad. You can try this first with ScratchX like I mentioned earlier and see if that will take care of it. Test spot!

[rmagnus]

Very possible.. but white pad with 205 didn't get out swirls so I stepped up to 205 with orange pad swirls gone but spider web not.. I'm using the PC so I wouldn't think I'm leaving them but can't know for sure. Maybe I'll just step on up to uc.
Should I use uc with the orange, white, or yellow pad?

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As others have said the purpose of a test spot is to know what process will give you the desired final finish. Your test spot should be complete not just the cutting process. Obviously a one step which M205 isn't really despite it's ability to finish down nicely it still requires protection ie: wax. Sounds like you are working on hard paint.

I would suggest a compound to start. UC w/ a orange pad a really good compound with long work time. Remember to track your section passes for duplication. Next go to a yellow pad. If no luck still try M105 again this time with a yellow pad.

If it were me I'd skip most of these steps unless it appears your close and go to M105 and a yellow pad. Reason being your using a PC, it's the least powerful DA (that's ok). I've done a lot of work with a PC and M105 LC yellow pad speed 5 will become your friend, follow with M205 white pad again speed 5, if those are the products you are working with.

Keep us posted.

[ihaveacamaro]

http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp230/Diabolic/chart_zpsbe6d672f.jpg

Great chart! Are you going to add M101 and M100?

FYI, after talking with and sitting in on Jason Rose and Michael Stoops' classes at detail fest, I am under the impression that M101 is more aggressive than M105, and M100 is less aggressive than M105. Neither is much more or much less aggressive as the cut meter on the bottle is 12 for all three.

[CM8 6MT]

Great chart! Are you going to add M101 and M100?

FYI, after talking with and sitting in on Jason Rose and Michael Stoops' classes at detail fest, I am under the impression that M101 is more aggressive than M105, and M100 is less aggressive than M105. Neither is much more or much less aggressive as the cut meter on the bottle is 12 for all three.

Yeah I thought about it, but I was in a rush to make it as this was the chart I used when I wrote my write up on working with soft paint. I wanted to keep it as brief and simple as possible, as you know theres many more polishes to that chart that I left out. I designed it for the beginner in mind, as seasoned detailers like you & myself dont need a chart to select product aggressiveness level.

[Hoytman]

No, dont use M205 with a yellow pad. Why would you use a heavy cutting pad with a finishing polish?

Since the words yellow and cutting pad were used to describe a pad. it's safe to assume this is either the Lake Country pad system or the Buff-n-Shine pad systems as both manufacturers use yellow as a heavy cutting pad, at least for a certain pad size category.

Not that I disagree with the above question in red with regard to most projects because for the most part this would seem like a legitimate question to ask. However, folks need to...

Remember...
There can be exceptions to what may seem like normal steps to take. A test spot will dictate what is best to use, and sometimes thinking a little outside the box yields results.

Somewhere I read that Kevin Brown used M105 and one pad to completely cut and polish a car to LSP ready. Wish I could recall where I read that. However, just think about that for a moment. That's only using 2 products to do an entire paint correction. Talk about tweaking your technique!

Here's a question from a forum member and a reply from Joe Fernandez with regard to using M105 that might be the best way to explain how Kevin Brown was able to accomplish what he did using one product and one pad (regardless if I've misunderstood Kevin's comments, below is still a good example of how an aggressive product can be used in a variety of ways).

...If the paint is very soft, why use m105 which is considered highly aggressive and not a milder compound? Isn't too much clear coat being taken off when using it on this type of paint?


...105 isn't necessarily the "most aggressive" I have actually used it as a fine polish many times. Think of it as very small very hard particles...
Joe then goes on to give an excellent description of how M105 works by saying...


...More rubbing in, more cut, less rubbing in, less cut.

Here's a solid example from the above question in red:

See post number 5 in this thread http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-n-shine/58239-polished-makes-perfect.html where Joe@SuperiorShine used a micro-fiber cutting disc and M205 to remove swirls from a red Porsche. I would have never dreamed a micro-fiber cutting pad could have been used to get such good results. Especially when they're touted to be more aggressive than foam and touted to finish worse than foam. Fooled me, but it worked and Joe's results are stunning to say the least.

To the above question: "Why would you use a heavy cutting pad with a finishing polish?" The best answer I can give you is: When the test spot calls for it. Without experience on a particular paint system, a person may be required to do several test spots. Let the test spot tell you what is the best technique to use on the rest of the vehicle. I know CM8 knows this, so I don't want him to think I'm picking apart his post. I'm simply typing this for others in the future who may read this thread, but it's a question I felt needed to be addressed.

For the most part it seems that the logical progression would be something like the following:

M105 and a light cutting pad followed by
M205 and a polishing pad...and that's just considering the use of two products and two pads.

This would also follow the logic in which CM8 posed his question. It sounds like his experience, as with many others experience, would lead us to believe that using a heavy cutting pad with a polish is counter intuitive. Typically I'd agree, even with the little experience that I have. However, to get technical there are no hard and fast rules. At least that's what I've come to understand with regard to technique, and with but one exception...least aggressive method first is best practice. Of course, over-all experience is a deciding factor, but it's generally accepted to start with the least aggresive method first.

For those reading this thread into the future, truly, the combinations are endless given additional products as well as pads.

For the sake of the small example above it was made known to me, by TuscararaDave, that there are indeed more combinations that we can get out of the simple two products above in combination with the two pads above. The example, sent to me via pm, and then tested on my own work with black paint goes like this:

M105 Meg's polishing pad
M105 Meg's finishing pad
M205 Meg's polishing pad
M205 Meg's finishing pad

It's not that you have to do this, but this is improvising and it's an example using only one pad system. Doing the best you can, with what you have, where you are at and let the test spot be your guide.

Hope this was helpful in describing when it's possible to use a heavy cutting pad with a polish. It may not be the norm, but it is possible. Just take a look at what Joe did on that red Porsche.

[akj]

Thanks everyone.. u are all making a lot of sense..
So I think this is what I'm gonna do tomorrow tell me if this sounds right.
UC with orange pad. If not enough cut yellow pad with light enough pressure to work. White pad m205.. sound good?

Sorry I didn't even notice that chart before. But its very good to have. And I may have asked this before but... I have m205, megs mf da system, UC, UP, duragloss 501, BF total polish & seal, xmt 360, (I think I don't wanna do a aio since this is my car I want it to be as good as I can get it)
But what about the mf system? Would that be better? Or would it be good to try the mf correction compound with an orange pad? Or just use the mf system for compound and finish with 205 on white?
Sorry bout all the questions but with this car being the first brand new car I've ever owned I REALLY REALLY want to make it look as good as possible and don't want to cut to much now since its only a month or so old.

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[Hoytman]

I too like CM8's chart and the background he used. However, shouldn't some of the credit in creating the "aggressiveness" of the chart go to those who first brought it to our attention? Mike Phillips, Mike Stoops, Mike Pennington, Jason Rose...or whoever first published an aggressiveness scale of these Meguiar's products. Just sayin'...

...Give due credit, where credit is due. - Mike Phillips

Again...not picking on CM8...I like his touches.