Severe swirls, need advice.

[Mwee07]

So I have been working on a side project intermittently for the past 2 weeks. A 2002 ford Taurus. Never been waxed. always taken through car wash, never dried properly. You get the idea. Abused and covered in swirls. First attack plan was the Wolfgang trio. Orange CCS, then black then gold. Did the hood and fenders they turned out great. But when it came to the sides I could see obviously that it was going to take something more than the TSR. So I went out to my local auto paint store who carries the entire Meg pro line. Picked up 105/205. Get home and I am finding that I am having to really work the product with the orange pad more than 6 passes to make it look great. Like 12-16 passes. Anyway, today I grabbed some 3000 and tried the other side of the car and that turned out better than then other after 105 orange and 205 green. I have experience with wet sanding. Any reason why the driver side without sanding didn't turn out as good as I've seen in here? I'm using the PCXP. Any advice about how to get the best results with out having to make 20 passes and without wet sanding?

[Mwee07]

Also, what's left behind could be considered RIDS.

[HardLineDetail]

Try this Surbuf R Series 5.5 Inch Buffing Pads 2 Pack, surbuf pads, microfingers pads, polishing pads (http://www.autogeek.net/surbuf-55-in-buffing-pads.html)

They are cheap and they cut so much faster than my yellow css pads. For severe swirls, it would take about 6 passes with my yellow css pad, with surb pads it takes about 2-3 passes! The key is to almost not but any pressure. The fibers on the pad need to be standing up, hence not using much pressure.

I have no idea why this pads are so underated and not talked about much. They have amazing cut ability. Use with 105 and finish with 205 and a less aggressive ccs pad.

[BobbyG]

For some reason many are under the impression that the Orange foam pads are pretty aggressive but in reality they're a light cutting pad. Fir heavy work I'd opt for a Yello cutting pad with a compound such as Meguiar's M105 or Menzerna PG1000.

Meguiar's has recently introduced their M101 which is scoring high marks and not to be outdone, Menzerna's countered this with their FG400.

Are you using speed 5 to 6 on your machine?

HardLineDetail has also given you another option which should improve your results.

[Mike Phillips]

Give the below a read-through, make sure you're not making any of the common mistakes. Just one of the below can reduce your efficiency at removing paint.


DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/37769-da-polisher-trouble-shooting-guide.html)




Tyler, age 15 removing swirls using a Porter Cable 7424XP Dual Action Polisher
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1436/medium/1965Plymouth035.jpg


When you're first starting out machine polishing and learning to use a DA Polisher it's common to have questions about your results and your results are directly tied to your technique.

Here's a list of the most common problems,


1. Trying to work too large of an area at one time.

2. Moving the polisher too fast over the surface.

3. Using too low of speed setting for removing swirls.

4. Using too little downward pressure on the head of the polisher.

5. Using too much downward pressure on the head of the polisher so the pad quits rotating.

6. Not holding the polisher in a way to keep the pad flat while working your compound or polish.

7. Using too much product or using too little product.

8. Not cleaning the pad often enough.

Here's a list of the solutions in matching order,

1. Trying to work too large of an area at one time.
Shrink the size of your work area down. You can't tackle to large of an area at one time. The average size work area should be around 20" by 20". Most generic recommendations say to work an area 2' by 2' but for the correction step, that's too large. You have to do some experimenting, (called a Test Spot), to find out how easy or how hard the defects are coming out of your car's paint system and then adjust your work area to the results of your Test Spot. The harder the paint the smaller the area you want to work.


2. Moving the polisher too fast over the surface.
For removing defects out of the paint you want to use what we call a Slow Arm Speed. It's easy and actually natural for most people new to machine polishing to move the polisher quickly over the paint but that's the wrong technique. One reason I think people move the polisher too quickly over the paint is because they hear the sound of the motor spinning fast and this has psychological effect which causes them to match their arm movement to the perceived fast speed of the polisher's motor.

Another reason people move the polisher too quickly over the paint is because they think like this,

"If I move the polisher quickly, I'll get done faster"

But it doesn't work that way. Anytime you're trying to remove swirls, scratches, water spots or oxidation using a DA Polisher you need to move the polisher s-l-o-w-l-y over the paint.



3. Using too low of speed setting for removing swirls.
When first starting out many people are scared of burning or swirling their paint, so they take the safe route of running the polisher at too low of a speed setting but this won't work. The action of the polisher is already g-e-n-t-l-e, you need the speed and specifically the pad oscillating and rotating over the paint as well as the combination of time, (slow arm speed), together with the abrasives, the pad aggressiveness, and the downward pressure to remove small particles of paint which is how your remove below surface defects like swirls or scratches.

Removing below surface defects is a leveling process where you need the abrasives to take little bites out of the paint and to get the abrasives to take these little bites with a tool that uses a Free Floating Spindle Bearing Assembly (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/23995-free-floating-spindle-assembly-story-behind-story.html) you need all of the above factors working for you including a high speed setting.



4. Using too little downward pressure on the head of the polisher.
For the same reason as stated in #3, people are scared, or perhaps a better word is apprehensive, to apply too much downward pressure to the polisher and the result of too little pressure is no paint is removed thus no swirls are removed.



5. Using too much downward pressure on the head of the polisher so the pad quits rotating.
If you push too hard you will slow down the rotating movement of the pad and the abrasives won't be effectively worked against the paint. You need to apply firm pressure to engage the abrasives against the paint but no so much that the pad is barely rotating. This is where it's a good idea to use a permanent black marker to make a mark on the back of your backing plate so your eyes can easily see if the pad is rotating or not and this will help you to adjust your downward pressure accordingly.

Correct technique means finding a balance of applying enough downward pressure to remove defects but not too much downward pressure as to stop the rotating movement of the pad.

This balance is affected by a lot of factors like the lubricity of the product you're using, some compounds and polishes provide more lubrication than others and this makes it easier to maintain pad rotation under pressure.

Another factor that can affect pad rotation are raised body lines, edges and curved surfaces as anytime you have uneven pressure on just a portion of the face of the pad it can slow or stop pad rotation. This is where experience comes into play and experience comes from time spent behind the polisher.



6. Not holding the polisher in a way to keep the pad flat while working your compound or polish.
Applying pressure in such a way as to put too much pressure to one edge of the pad will cause it to stop rotating and thus decrease abrading ability.



7. Using too much product or using too little product.
Too much product hyper-lubricates the surface and the result is that abrasives won't effectively bite into the paint but instead will tend to skim over the surface. Overusing product will also accelerate pad saturation as well increase the potential for slinging splatter onto adjacent panels.

Too little product will means too little lubrication and this can interfere with pad rotation.

Again there needs to be a balance between too much product and too little product and finding this balance comes from reading articles like this one, watching videos an most important, going out into the garage and putting in time behind the polisher and as you're buffing with specific product and pad combinations, pay attention to pad rotation.



8. Not cleaning the pad often enough.
Most people simply don't clean their pad often enough to maximize the effectiveness of their DA Polisher. Anytime you're abrading the paint you have two things building up on the face of your buffing pad,

Removed paint


Spent product

As these to things build up on the face of the pad they become gummy and this has a negative affect on pad rotating plus makes wiping the leftover residue on the paint more difficult. To maintain good pad rotation you want to clean your pad often and always wipe-off any leftover product residue off the paint after working a section. Never add fresh product to your pad and work a section that still has leftover product residue on it.


Pad Cleaning Articles

Why it's important to clean your pads often... (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tricks-tips-techniques/28755-why-s-important-clean-your-pads-often.html)

How to clean your foam pad on the fly (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/20135-how-clean-your-foam-pad-fly.html)

How to use the Grit Guard Universal Pad Washer (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-videos/24325-video-how-use-grit-guard-universal-pad-washer.html)





:)

[Mwee07]

Ahh! Merci! I am using 5. was also having a tough time keeping the pad rotating. pretty aggressive curved bodylines. Ill try some new pads and a new technique.

[Dimetera413]

+1 on the Surbuf pads. Those things cut really good and quickly too.

[Rsurfer]

MF pads with M101

[Bates Detailing]

This is when I bust out the good hearty rotary for the first step - then DA it the following 2 or 3 steps :dblthumb2: I feel like the rotary may become extinct soon but is still a necessary tool to have for a detailer.