Body work issues, or am I way too picky?

[k12354]

Hey guys,

I recently had some body work done on my 6 month old corsa blue 2013 Kia Optima SX. I have always been particular about maintaining a clean car. I use the 2-bucket system with grit guards, 3 separate wash mitts for wheels and upper and lower panels, ultra plush microfiber towels to get off any water the sheeting method didn't get rid of... I know most of you are familiar with this system because I read about it on these forums before I bought my car.

After several trips back and forth to the body shop, and after a full exterior detail on the body shop's dime, I still think the paint has imperfections that were not present before the car was repainted. I will agree the paint looks good, but I feel it looked better before and I'm still not totally satisfied with the work. The body shop is insisting the paint and finish are fine.

I could post the issues I have, but I want to prove to the body shop that I'm not just fishing for the answer I want. In order to get the most unbiased opinions possible, I am posting links to a couple of quick walkaround videos I shot this morning.

Please let me know if you guys see any issues with the work. They are subtle, even to my discerning eyes, so you might have to look closely. Or maybe you won't see any issues at all. I'd like to hear from a few of you either way. I would appreciate the input. Thank you in advance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw-cCgfk8LQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xp5hGGol1I&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[BlackHawk]

There are definetaly some paint imperfections there, but they are not too bad. The usual swirls and holograms is what I noticed. Nothing a light polish couldn't fix, but I wouldn't count on the body shop guys on fixing it. They might even make it worse.

Although to get a true feel for your paint condition I'd have too see it a bit better, but from what I could tell, its got what i stated before :/ unfortunetaly.

[Sicoupe]

I see very little, but without seeing in person it's hard to get a true opinion.

[6supersport7]

I agree with the above. Some light swirls and buffer trails is what I seen. Again, it's hard to judge from a video. If that's the worse of it, you actually made out pretty good from my experiences with body shops and their lack of buffing/polishing knowledge.

[k12354]

Thank you everyone for the replies. I guess it's time to invest in a Porter Cable and pads anyway.

[k12354]

I agree with the above. Some light swirls and buffer trails is what I seen. Again, it's hard to judge from a video. If that's the worse of it, you actually made out pretty good from my experiences with body shops and their lack of buffing/polishing knowledge.

That's the worst of it AFTER a full exterior detail from a 3rd party detail shop. I would have taken photos of the car before the detail, but I refused to drive it home in that condition.

[k12354]

Now that I've gotten a few replies and shared this post with the body shop manager, I will say that the issues I am seeing are swirl marks on the whole car and holograms on the hood. The holograms were probably put their by the detailer when he buffed fresh paint and clear coat, but that's just an amateur's guess.

I was hoping this would all buff out and that seems to be the consensus here. I am going to wait a month to let the paint fully bond to the hood and settle. But I well need a polisher and pads.

I was thinking of getting the Porter Cable 7424xp with an orange, gray, blue, and a red pad to take care of these imperfections.

http://www.autogeekmobile.net/porter-cable-pad-kit.html

I already have Klasse all-in-one and Klasse sealant glaze. What do you guys think? Any other products you would recommend so I can try correcting the imperfections in a month or so?

Thanks again to everyone who replied.

[encoder]

I'm a hobbyist and others here will certainly be able to offer a better answer but since nobody replied, here's my experience:

I was able to clean up some minor hologramming issues on black factory mercedes paint (known to be hard) using that same PC DA with Menzerna SIP with a medium-cut pad (The green pad from Edge2000). You'll need to follow that up with a finishing polish of some kind. I used Menzerna PO85RD but that is specifically matched for Mercedes clear coats so there's certainly a better finishing product out there for you.

[RedXray]

From just the video... The re-spraying of the panels you've highlighted look good from a (me) bodyman/painters view. I see very little orange peel and no places where the paint is dry sprayed (foggy) and the metallic looks uniform. From a detailers view I see the same things as others have posted. IMO it would take very little correction work to bring the finish to a higher level.


so I can try correcting the imperfections in a month or so?
You don't have to wait (unless you want to) to polish, just remember do not wax or use a sealant for 90 days so the paint solvents can outgas.

[k12354]

From just the video... The re-spraying of the panels you've highlighted look good from a (me) bodyman/painters view. I see very little orange peel and no places where the paint is dry sprayed (foggy) and the metallic looks uniform. From a detailers view I see the same things as others have posted. IMO it would take very little correction work to bring the finish to a higher level.


You don't have to wait (unless you want to) to polish, just remember do not wax or use a sealant for 90 days so the paint solvents can outgas.

That's exactly it. I don't have a problem with the paint work. The painting I'm actually very impressed with. It's the crummy wash & dry job that bothered me.

I sent the link to this thread to the manager of the body shop. He said it's probably best if I wait at least 30 days.

[k12354]

I started a thread about which product/pad combinations I should try here:

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/62246-first-da-setup-pads-compounds-these-imperfections.html

[builthatch]

OP, i feel your pain. it's tough because the general public has such a low perception of paint condition. volume body shops and even a percentage of custom shops don't get it because they don't have to. same with most "detailers". if anything you can look at this as a learning experience re: how to effectively correct paint.

nibs, solvent pop...trash - these are things you don't want to have in your paint work fresh from the body shop. but it appears as others have said that you have light paint defects that can easily be corrected. the good thing about correcting repaints is that usually there is ample clear on there, especially vs. factory finishes. the only exception is when they lay it down thick but then cut heavily with a buffer to "refine" their work.



just remember do not wax or use a sealant for 90 days so the paint solvents can outgas.

talk to Dr. G about that. he has told me in the past that his spray wax is fine to be used on fresh paint that has been baked. i know i asked him in particular about a bumper that was painted a week earlier and he said no problem.

[k12354]

Since I created this post, I have spoken to the claims department at my insurance company (State Farm - they rock!). I explained the situation in detail. The representative said State Farm would be happy to pay to send my car to a different shop and have it repainted if I am unhappy with the results from a light cutting polish like M205.

So now I'm thinking of getting it repainted, since it won't cost me anything more. I'm pretty confident these imperfections will buff out. On the other hand (contrary to the body shop manager's insistence otherwise) my paint was in pretty darn good shape before I took my car to the body shop. The car is 7 months old for crying out loud!

Also, I think the detailer applied carnauba wax over the fresh paint. I will have to confirm with him, but it smells like the same 'nuba on the rest of the car is on the repainted hood and fender as well. Won't that prevent the paint from properly outgassing?

I'm beginning to wonder if my OCD brain will always be thinking, "I don't have as much clear over the paint as I should because I had to cut it right after a new paint job."

What do you all think? Should I just get over it and take the DA to it? Or is being without the car for another week worth it (in your opinion) to have fresh, swirl free paint and clear coat that hasn't been cut to fix a sloppy wash and dry job.

Needless to say, if I do get it repainted, I will kindly request that the body shop not wash and dry the car, even if that means getting it back dirty and dusty. Opinions please?

[builthatch]

Since I created this post, I have spoken to the claims department at my insurance company (State Farm - they rock!). I explained the situation in detail. The representative said State Farm would be happy to pay to send my car to a different shop and have it repainted if I am unhappy with the results from a light cutting polish like M205.

So now I'm thinking of getting it repainted, since it won't cost me anything more. I'm pretty confident these imperfections will buff out. On the other hand (contrary to the body shop manager's insistence otherwise) my paint was in pretty darn good shape before I took my car to the body shop. The car is 7 months old for crying out loud!

Also, I think the detailer applied carnauba wax over the fresh paint. I will have to confirm with him, but it smells like the same 'nuba on the rest of the car is on the repainted hood and fender as well. Won't that prevent the paint from properly outgassing?

I'm beginning to wonder if my OCD brain will always be thinking, "I don't have as much clear over the paint as I should because I had to cut it right after a new paint job."

What do you all think? Should I just get over it and take the DA to it? Or is being without the car for another week worth it (in your opinion) to have fresh, swirl free paint and clear coat that hasn't been cut to fix a sloppy wash and dry job.

Needless to say, if I do get it repainted, I will kindly request that the body shop not wash and dry the car, even if that means getting it back dirty and dusty. Opinions please?

meh, i wouldn't get it repainted. as mentioned it appears you have some light defects from the shop cutting the new finish.

it isn't uncommon for new paint to be "cut and buffed". they hit it with a wool pad, left some light damage and now it needs to be refined to remove those marks. factory finishes are painted by machines with bean counters closely watching how much paint is applied. they dial it in so just enough is there to do the job - some brands specify more because of the quality they try to convey, but generally speaking robot applied clear is thin. however, human applied clear at a body shop generally is not thin...at all. typically there is a ton of room left for the paint guy to cut the finish down.

to get rid of the issues, just get it polished by someone who knows what they are doing or do it yourself. leave the State Farm-backed repaint statement in your back pocket in case something happens now or down the line. to consider getting it repainted for what we are seeing is a drastic measure.

as far as having a shop not wash something after they've worked on a car, you are taking away a huge portion of your ability to check their work on pickup and also inspect to see if they did any other damage to other parts of the car while it was in their care. it's like the guys who tell the dealerships to leave the plastic on the car - when you remove that plastic on your own, and there is a quality issue, you are now escalating something past the dealer to the manufacturer, something that could have been nipped in the bud if you simply allowed them to remove the plastic during their prep and you inspect the car on their turf under your conditions - inside, at night...whatever. dealerships will many times shrug their shoulders if you claim something is wrong after you took delivery without letting them prep the car.

if you are that fearful of their technique, find a body shop that is trusted and use them if you need to have further paint work done. shops who are known by enthusiasts and luxury/exotic car owners to be reputable usually can wash/prep freshly painted cars to an acceptable level.

as a detail enthusiast, you sort of have to accept the fact that nobody outside of a premium detail outfit will be as careful with your car as you will. there might be some body shops who are, but it's unlikely. so, expect to have to further refine a car once you get it back. i mean, we buy new cars and refine them, so i makes perfect sense that you'd have to do a little more work to a car that has been to a body shop to get it to the premium level you expect.

[k12354]

Great advice, builthatch. Thanks!

I've been watching tons of videos here at AG as well as on YouTube. My brother has experience with a PC. He'll be around in a few weeks to supervise/teach me as I operate my new PC for the first time.

I'm going to do my wife's car first (test spot, of course). There is a scratch on her passenger fender that penetrates the base coat. Eventually she wants to get the fender repaired and repainted. Until then, I figure it's a good test surface on which to get the hang of a DA.