swanicyouth
02-20-2013, 12:16 AM
So, anyone following the little test I did before saw PowerLock is really tough. Basically, now, I taped off 4 sections of this mirror in a frame to test how tough BF WD, WG DGPS, and PL are against each other. The lower 1/2 of the PL strip has BlackHole under it to see how that affects resistance to cleaners. I want to see if this "toughness" is unique to PowerLock, and how they perform against the AutoGeek house brand sealants.
All sections were taped off strait (PL section also taped in half so lower half could get BH under the PL) and each sealant was applied with a different finger. Sealants were left to cure 5 hours after application.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/y7yvugub.jpg
This is what you call a lo-tech test. I own no fancy camera, just an IPhone 5. I don't have body shop prepared jet black pans or panels. My criteria for toughness is beading only. I started mainly doing this for my own interest to see what is tough, and what is not.
What got me to post the initial test was when I found Powerlock could not be removed with any paint safe cleaners I own, including: strait IPA 70%, Eraser, Mineral Spirits, Meg's APC+ 1:4, Sonus All in 1 1:10, Griots Paint Prep, Grime Reaper 1:5, and Goo Gone.
Quite frankly, I didn't expect a polymer sealant to hold up to any of those cleaners - on glass, on paint, on whatever.
Just by feel, I'll report a little about slickness. It goes: BFWD (slickest), WG DGPS (#2), & PowerLock (#3). But, they all do feel slick. All sealants were shaken well prior to application. BF & WG had some "micro clumps" to them one would only notice if spreading with a finger. PL was smooth liquid and had none. None of them smell very good.
Beading:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/je9e3y3e.jpg
They all bead pretty well. It looks to me that WG DGPS is beading the best though, by a small amount - but it is distinguishable. The lines between the beading sections is where the tape was. There is no product there. The BlackHole under the lower 1/2 of PL isn't affecting the beading.
Lets get down to some cleaners. Again it goes: BF, WG, PL (top 1/2 of PL is plain, bottom 1/2 is over BlackHole). All cleaners are sprayed on liberally and rubbed in and off well with a blue cloth mechanics type towel (new). Then the "panel" is flushed with tap water to remove any excess cleaners and to check beading.
Meg's APC+ 1:10
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/yqyzahu7.jpg
No noticeable loss of beading on any of the sealants.
IPA 25%
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/4a3asugu.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/ehepeqar.jpg
No loss of beading yet.
CarPro's Eraser
Dwelling on surface. This pic will give you an idea of how much cleaner I'm using - a liberal amount (surface hasn't been agitated or rinsed here)
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/a7yha3yb.jpg
After agitation and rinse off:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/uzu2yjyp.jpg
All are still beading well, with no measurable signs of degradation to my naked eye.
Strait IPA 70%
IPA dwelling on the surface (pre-agitation /pre rinsing... notice IPA itself doesn't bead):
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/3erebate.jpg
After 70% IPA all beading strong (below pic). Notice the "no product" demarcations (tape lines) are still there to show this is not normal beading for this surface (previous tests show me this glass does not bead at all with no products on it):
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/evuzy6a8.jpg
My floor (and my socks) are getting pretty wet from all the water spraying and cleaner spraying:
I should probably put some shoes on!
Griot's Paint Prep:
(Dwelling pre-agitation)
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/a9u9udyq.jpg
After agitation / rinse:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/vu9une4e.jpg
All are still beading strong! EXCEPT, I notice the beads where PowerLock was applied over BlackHole are getting SLIGHTLY larger
Beads, PowerLock over BlackHole:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/5usejeju.jpg
Beads PowerLock:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/da7y9ehe.jpg
I'm not sure how that difference showed up in pictures, so you just have to trust me on it.
By now my feet are pretty wet.
Sonus All In 1 1:10
Dwelling (pre-agitation)
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/e4apapu2.jpg
After, all are still beading strong:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/asunavuq.jpg
However, I stopped again to examine the beads. There is a SLIGHT loss of tightness in beads where PL is over BH.
If a had to pick an order for beading it would be Wolfgang (#1), PL (#2), and BF (#3). But, it's very close!
Rustoleum Wax & Tar Remover
Dwelling pre-agitation. Liberal application:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/u8ahaduv.jpg
After Agitation and Rinsing:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/aga8yja6.jpg
Did nothing!
It's getting late and I have to work tomorrow :(.
Lets try Goo Gone
Dwelling on surface pre-agitation:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/dy9emy2u.jpg
After rubbing it in prior to rinsing:
(Notice the lower right where PL over BH looks "different" with the Goo Gone on it):
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/y5evubut.jpg
After Rinsing:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/9ema7ybu.jpg
They still are all beading well! This impressed me, as Goo Gone has removed pretty much anything I've asked it to in the past.
Something I am noticing that you can't see in the photos. WG seems to be the most hydrophobic and get rid of the water fastest. It's only by a notch, but it is noticeable while spraying. PL is > BF by a hair.
Now my garage is going to stink. Better crack the door.
What about Trix? (shook it very well)
Trix dwelling:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/qapy9ube.jpg
... At least we know there is no ferrous material here!
Trix after agitation just sitting on the surface. I noticed the Wolfgang actually beaded the Trix better and faster than the other 2.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/8ete5ase.jpg
Lets rinse it off and see what happens.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/parype2y.jpg
They are all still beading well with some slight degradation. Wolfgang seems to have the tightest beads:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/bapupu5y.jpg
The loosest beads are the PL over BH:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/qabuby9a.jpg
Meg's Chrome Wheel Cleaner:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/yju8ydaj.jpg
This stuff is corrosive. I forget wether its acidic or basic, but I'm sure this will kill it. This is their OTC "spray and rinse" or "no touch" wheel cleaner. This is the stuff that burns you skin if you don't wear gloves.
I've already found out what I set to find out. I'm only going to spray a little bit of this on and spread it out.
2 sprays:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/4u2erupe.jpg
After rubbing it in/off (but not rinsed off):
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/gutyhury.jpg
Lets see when we rinse it:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/e8aryryz.jpg
All beading Dead!!!!
Some thoughts:
First, this was done on glass. Can the results be applied to paint? I'm not sure. My guess would be paint may be a little easier to remove the products from, but, not much. I did a similar test with some waxes (and another sealant) and they where easy to remove - where PowerLock couldn't be removed. So, I know this isn't "special glass". If the glass held sealants better than paint, then wouldn't the waxes and the previous sealant also be tough to remove?
Also, the taped off sections where no product was applied (and final product removal) tell me that it's not the glass surface itself beading.
My conclusions:
1. Wolfgang seemed to be the best beader and most hydrophobic, followed by PL, and BF. But they all survived all those cleaners and beaded very well. I couldn't believe the survived Trix!
2. These 3 polymer sealants are very chemical resistant. If I was using any of these, I would polish them off before applying any coating. Wax products are easily removed compared to these three.
3. Chemically stripping any of these 3 products may be very difficult, especially compared to a wax.
4. The idea that "sealants can only bond to a clean surface" didn't hold water hear. The PL applied over Black Hole Glaze held up very well, only slightly less tough than PowerLock alone.
This was also part of the reason for doing this. As, I wanted to see how a non-water based glaze under a sealant would affect sealant durability. My guess is Black Hole is an acrylic type glaze - but it's just a guess. It seems using BH affected degradation very little - against chemical degradation at least. PoorBoys does say you can use BH under a sealant.
BF and WG both off paint/pre-wax cleaners that have a glaze/"filler" component. I was leery of using these under a sealant until this test (even though its manufacturer recommended). Now, I trust they would have little affect on these sealant's durability.
5. I've always been a little skeptical of applying a sealant under a wax. I always had some "doubt" - like the wax may be removing the sealant and you are actually just seeing the wax beading. Or, possibly, that they are "mixing". After doing this test, I have no doubt sealants are holding tight below the wax. If I recall correctly, a sealant "bonds to itself"/cross links - not to the paint. A coating actually bonds to the paint (for the most part). I believe now that a topper wax can just "sit" on top of a sealant, that it doesn't "mix" or remove it.
I was actually starting to get away from applying a sealant under a wax, and just using a wax only. After seeing how tough and chemical resistant these sealants really are, I will continue to use them under a wax and after a paint cleaner or over a glaze without hesitation.
6. Both my PowerLock and BFWD sealants are quite old. I think I bought PowerLock the first month it came out, and I believe the BFWD is from before AutoGeek started selling it. This stuff has spent 3 or 4 winters in my ice cold (winter) and steaming hot (summer) garage. It's good to see the products are still performing well and have a long shelf life.
7. All sealants were applied as a single coat. They all were very chemical resistant. Except for completeness of coverage, multiple coats of a sealant may just be overkill. The test convinced me a thinly applied single coat is likely all that is necessary.
8. Also, I noticed that each sealant took longer than I expected for it to "dry". After 20 minutes, they were still tacky. It only took a large drop to cover each section. I let them sit an hour before buffing off the extra. They were 100% dry at that point. All sealants here removed very easily once they were dry. If your trying to remove any of these products and they are "smeary" or tacky - they are not dry yet. They should buff off like a dried powder.
******************************
This whole thing was done for fun. Take from it what you will. It's far from being a perfect or scientific test. I just formed my own conclusions /opinions for my own use and beliefs. I'm not trying to prove anything here. I'm just showing you what I did, what happened, and what I believe is going on.
I was really glad to see the PBMG products performed excellent here, as I've invested the most amount of money in these lines. They performed superior to a previous sealant I tested, and as well as, if not better than, PowerLock. I really wasn't looking forward to finding out they could be easily removed - glad to find out just the opposite!
Thanks for looking. Feedback welcome.
All sections were taped off strait (PL section also taped in half so lower half could get BH under the PL) and each sealant was applied with a different finger. Sealants were left to cure 5 hours after application.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/y7yvugub.jpg
This is what you call a lo-tech test. I own no fancy camera, just an IPhone 5. I don't have body shop prepared jet black pans or panels. My criteria for toughness is beading only. I started mainly doing this for my own interest to see what is tough, and what is not.
What got me to post the initial test was when I found Powerlock could not be removed with any paint safe cleaners I own, including: strait IPA 70%, Eraser, Mineral Spirits, Meg's APC+ 1:4, Sonus All in 1 1:10, Griots Paint Prep, Grime Reaper 1:5, and Goo Gone.
Quite frankly, I didn't expect a polymer sealant to hold up to any of those cleaners - on glass, on paint, on whatever.
Just by feel, I'll report a little about slickness. It goes: BFWD (slickest), WG DGPS (#2), & PowerLock (#3). But, they all do feel slick. All sealants were shaken well prior to application. BF & WG had some "micro clumps" to them one would only notice if spreading with a finger. PL was smooth liquid and had none. None of them smell very good.
Beading:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/je9e3y3e.jpg
They all bead pretty well. It looks to me that WG DGPS is beading the best though, by a small amount - but it is distinguishable. The lines between the beading sections is where the tape was. There is no product there. The BlackHole under the lower 1/2 of PL isn't affecting the beading.
Lets get down to some cleaners. Again it goes: BF, WG, PL (top 1/2 of PL is plain, bottom 1/2 is over BlackHole). All cleaners are sprayed on liberally and rubbed in and off well with a blue cloth mechanics type towel (new). Then the "panel" is flushed with tap water to remove any excess cleaners and to check beading.
Meg's APC+ 1:10
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/yqyzahu7.jpg
No noticeable loss of beading on any of the sealants.
IPA 25%
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/4a3asugu.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/ehepeqar.jpg
No loss of beading yet.
CarPro's Eraser
Dwelling on surface. This pic will give you an idea of how much cleaner I'm using - a liberal amount (surface hasn't been agitated or rinsed here)
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/a7yha3yb.jpg
After agitation and rinse off:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/uzu2yjyp.jpg
All are still beading well, with no measurable signs of degradation to my naked eye.
Strait IPA 70%
IPA dwelling on the surface (pre-agitation /pre rinsing... notice IPA itself doesn't bead):
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/3erebate.jpg
After 70% IPA all beading strong (below pic). Notice the "no product" demarcations (tape lines) are still there to show this is not normal beading for this surface (previous tests show me this glass does not bead at all with no products on it):
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/evuzy6a8.jpg
My floor (and my socks) are getting pretty wet from all the water spraying and cleaner spraying:
I should probably put some shoes on!
Griot's Paint Prep:
(Dwelling pre-agitation)
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/a9u9udyq.jpg
After agitation / rinse:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/vu9une4e.jpg
All are still beading strong! EXCEPT, I notice the beads where PowerLock was applied over BlackHole are getting SLIGHTLY larger
Beads, PowerLock over BlackHole:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/5usejeju.jpg
Beads PowerLock:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/da7y9ehe.jpg
I'm not sure how that difference showed up in pictures, so you just have to trust me on it.
By now my feet are pretty wet.
Sonus All In 1 1:10
Dwelling (pre-agitation)
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/e4apapu2.jpg
After, all are still beading strong:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/asunavuq.jpg
However, I stopped again to examine the beads. There is a SLIGHT loss of tightness in beads where PL is over BH.
If a had to pick an order for beading it would be Wolfgang (#1), PL (#2), and BF (#3). But, it's very close!
Rustoleum Wax & Tar Remover
Dwelling pre-agitation. Liberal application:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/u8ahaduv.jpg
After Agitation and Rinsing:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/aga8yja6.jpg
Did nothing!
It's getting late and I have to work tomorrow :(.
Lets try Goo Gone
Dwelling on surface pre-agitation:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/dy9emy2u.jpg
After rubbing it in prior to rinsing:
(Notice the lower right where PL over BH looks "different" with the Goo Gone on it):
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/y5evubut.jpg
After Rinsing:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/9ema7ybu.jpg
They still are all beading well! This impressed me, as Goo Gone has removed pretty much anything I've asked it to in the past.
Something I am noticing that you can't see in the photos. WG seems to be the most hydrophobic and get rid of the water fastest. It's only by a notch, but it is noticeable while spraying. PL is > BF by a hair.
Now my garage is going to stink. Better crack the door.
What about Trix? (shook it very well)
Trix dwelling:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/qapy9ube.jpg
... At least we know there is no ferrous material here!
Trix after agitation just sitting on the surface. I noticed the Wolfgang actually beaded the Trix better and faster than the other 2.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/8ete5ase.jpg
Lets rinse it off and see what happens.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/parype2y.jpg
They are all still beading well with some slight degradation. Wolfgang seems to have the tightest beads:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/bapupu5y.jpg
The loosest beads are the PL over BH:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/qabuby9a.jpg
Meg's Chrome Wheel Cleaner:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/yju8ydaj.jpg
This stuff is corrosive. I forget wether its acidic or basic, but I'm sure this will kill it. This is their OTC "spray and rinse" or "no touch" wheel cleaner. This is the stuff that burns you skin if you don't wear gloves.
I've already found out what I set to find out. I'm only going to spray a little bit of this on and spread it out.
2 sprays:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/4u2erupe.jpg
After rubbing it in/off (but not rinsed off):
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/gutyhury.jpg
Lets see when we rinse it:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/e8aryryz.jpg
All beading Dead!!!!
Some thoughts:
First, this was done on glass. Can the results be applied to paint? I'm not sure. My guess would be paint may be a little easier to remove the products from, but, not much. I did a similar test with some waxes (and another sealant) and they where easy to remove - where PowerLock couldn't be removed. So, I know this isn't "special glass". If the glass held sealants better than paint, then wouldn't the waxes and the previous sealant also be tough to remove?
Also, the taped off sections where no product was applied (and final product removal) tell me that it's not the glass surface itself beading.
My conclusions:
1. Wolfgang seemed to be the best beader and most hydrophobic, followed by PL, and BF. But they all survived all those cleaners and beaded very well. I couldn't believe the survived Trix!
2. These 3 polymer sealants are very chemical resistant. If I was using any of these, I would polish them off before applying any coating. Wax products are easily removed compared to these three.
3. Chemically stripping any of these 3 products may be very difficult, especially compared to a wax.
4. The idea that "sealants can only bond to a clean surface" didn't hold water hear. The PL applied over Black Hole Glaze held up very well, only slightly less tough than PowerLock alone.
This was also part of the reason for doing this. As, I wanted to see how a non-water based glaze under a sealant would affect sealant durability. My guess is Black Hole is an acrylic type glaze - but it's just a guess. It seems using BH affected degradation very little - against chemical degradation at least. PoorBoys does say you can use BH under a sealant.
BF and WG both off paint/pre-wax cleaners that have a glaze/"filler" component. I was leery of using these under a sealant until this test (even though its manufacturer recommended). Now, I trust they would have little affect on these sealant's durability.
5. I've always been a little skeptical of applying a sealant under a wax. I always had some "doubt" - like the wax may be removing the sealant and you are actually just seeing the wax beading. Or, possibly, that they are "mixing". After doing this test, I have no doubt sealants are holding tight below the wax. If I recall correctly, a sealant "bonds to itself"/cross links - not to the paint. A coating actually bonds to the paint (for the most part). I believe now that a topper wax can just "sit" on top of a sealant, that it doesn't "mix" or remove it.
I was actually starting to get away from applying a sealant under a wax, and just using a wax only. After seeing how tough and chemical resistant these sealants really are, I will continue to use them under a wax and after a paint cleaner or over a glaze without hesitation.
6. Both my PowerLock and BFWD sealants are quite old. I think I bought PowerLock the first month it came out, and I believe the BFWD is from before AutoGeek started selling it. This stuff has spent 3 or 4 winters in my ice cold (winter) and steaming hot (summer) garage. It's good to see the products are still performing well and have a long shelf life.
7. All sealants were applied as a single coat. They all were very chemical resistant. Except for completeness of coverage, multiple coats of a sealant may just be overkill. The test convinced me a thinly applied single coat is likely all that is necessary.
8. Also, I noticed that each sealant took longer than I expected for it to "dry". After 20 minutes, they were still tacky. It only took a large drop to cover each section. I let them sit an hour before buffing off the extra. They were 100% dry at that point. All sealants here removed very easily once they were dry. If your trying to remove any of these products and they are "smeary" or tacky - they are not dry yet. They should buff off like a dried powder.
******************************
This whole thing was done for fun. Take from it what you will. It's far from being a perfect or scientific test. I just formed my own conclusions /opinions for my own use and beliefs. I'm not trying to prove anything here. I'm just showing you what I did, what happened, and what I believe is going on.
I was really glad to see the PBMG products performed excellent here, as I've invested the most amount of money in these lines. They performed superior to a previous sealant I tested, and as well as, if not better than, PowerLock. I really wasn't looking forward to finding out they could be easily removed - glad to find out just the opposite!
Thanks for looking. Feedback welcome.