[Coated leather care] Leather Masters vs. LTT?

[Mustapha]

Can someone please give a detailed review between these two and each of their products? There is one member on here 'mg6045 (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/members/mg6045.html)' whose input I've also asked since he has used both.

I've searched over 50 threads on AG, Autopia, Detailing World, but I can't find a definitive post comparing and reviewing LM and LTT (UK). Along with Fenice (Italy), they are highly regarded in leather care.*

Leather Masters (http://www.autogeek.net/leather-master-auto-care.html) has 2 foam cleaners ("Rapid S" and "Strong") and a protection cream (which can be preceded by a softener called "Vital").

LTT has a one foam cleaner ("Auto Ultra Foam") and one protectant ("Auto Ultra Protect"). They also have a product that LM does not have, an all-in-one cleaner+protector called "Auto Ultra Maintain" which should be used periodically as a once the leather has been deep cleaned and well protected (I assume in a semi-annual interior detail).

Leather Masters is easily available in North America. LTT ships across the Atlantic, but the final price when converted means their kit containing cleaner, protector, AIO cleaner/protector, and more costs just under $100. On AG, the LM cleaner and protector cost under $50.

*Their names keep coming up for coated leather care because they are water-based. The vast majority of auto leather products are not right for our seats because of the urethane coating on top of them, they argue. Others claim that with advancements in modern automotive glass and optional tinting, all that's needed is a weekly wipe down with a damp microfiber or terry towel. Some use a diluted APC if the coated leather is dirty instead of just water. Finally, a robust UV protectant like 303 Aeropsace or mild ones like 1z Einszett Cockpit or Vinyl-Rubber care are applied.

[swanicyouth]

I have used LM Soft Cleaner and Vital. While they work well, the Vital seems to be very short lived. The cleaner is good, but I wouldn't say amazing. I've gone to breathable leather coatings / sealants like CarPro Fabric & Textile, G Techniq L1, and UIG+. These products seem to protect longer against dirt, UV, and mechanical wear.

But I'm no expert. There is a lot of conflicting information. I'm wondering if anyone really knows for sure.

[SON1C]

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/product-reviews/59309-son1c-synopsis-21-chemical-guys-allclean-review.html
I clean with apc and then use a leather cleaner and conditioner or a leather cleaner and then conditioner or clean with distilled water and leather conditioner
I haven't bothered with coatings yet, doubt I will

[Bunky]

LTT will claim Leather Masters is "old school" since despite being water based it does contain some vegetable/animal fats. What they cannot prove is that it is detrimental to leather in a practical way. Almost all leather care products marketed for automotive use are water based but they can contain oils such as lanolin.

I have used LM and of all leather care products it is one of my top favorites for ease of application, least surface finish change (visual, added slickness), mild scent, and final result (protection).

[ScottB]

LeatherMasters works well for me ...

[WRXINXS]

I have only used LeatherMasters but I really like it. I use the three step combo of 1. Soft Cleaner, 2. Vital, 3. Leather Protection Cream. The only thing I don't like is that the Leather Protection Cream does not have UV protection it it but you could always replace it or follow it up with a protectant like PERL etc. I would buy again!

[Old Tiger]

I really like Permanon on leather and interiors. NO oils no shine either. Great dry feel. It is the only protectant I have used on my Audi.

[Speed-Dude]

Have always wondered about those but Wolfgang CTS has worked amazingly for me. Using UWW+ to maintain it's real easy to keep the seats clean. It's entertaining to see the seats repel water just like the paint :D.

[mg6045]

I've used both LTT and LM.

As far as the cleaners go, I think Leather Masters offers more options. And they are both similar. You always have to consider the fact that getting the LTT products shipped to the USA is expensive. Not by a little, but a lot more expensive. So for this I would suggest the LM cleaners.

To be honest , I also like to use Ultima Interior Shampoo. As its just faster to use and works just as well while being safe (ph7). Its also pretty foamy even when sprayed on a towel. This is another cleaner that works well without a lot of agitation (rubbing in).

As for the protectant's, while the end result is similar (which is protection from stains and abrasion as a result of a curable, breathable, water based polymer top coat), I feel that these product both have pretty different attributes.

I really go back and forth on the protectants. The best I can do is compare them from what I have seen and felt.

Leather Masters / Leather Protection Cream-
- softer feel to the leather
- top coat feels more substantial (maybe do to the soft feel it imparts)
- Have to be careful not to overapply to avoid long curing time which can lead to sticky feeling before it dreis fully. To help this I use a MF applicator and lighly wipe on in strokes while slightly overlapping, then let cure. no need to rub it in, it will level and cure with no streaks if applied evenly.
- non scented as far as I could tell. Maybe a light smell that is nice or fresh due to its chemical makeup.
- Inexpensive compared to other products that offer protection
- Noticeable results nextime you clean or wipe down the leather. driver seat is easier to clean with less chemicals.
- NON Slippery feeling. Grippy feeling on seats.
- No Gloss, but gives an even look once applied. You can tell its there but not from any gloss. Moreso from an even, flat look, with optical clarity of whats underneath. if the leather is cheap and has a glossy look natually, it might tone that down a bit actually.

LTT Leather Care / Auto Ultra Protect
- Trigger Spray
- Feeling of leather is virtually the same after application. Soft feel is very minimal.
- Wipes on a is taken in immediately. Meaning fast and foolproof application. I would feel comfortable getting in the seat within 5 minutes after application. compared to 1 hour for LM Protection Cream.
- Top coat feels less substantial compared to LM PC due to the non soft feeling.
- Noticeable results nextime you clean and wipe down the leather. Driver seat is easier to clean with less chemicals.
- NON Slippery - NON Grippy feeling. Really no change at all in the look or feel to the leather with LTT. Only way to tell its applied is from its protection and from its even look.
- NON Streaking. Even on those tough leathers. Goes back to the foolproof application.
- UV PROTECTION. LM PC does not offer UV protection. But LTT's Auto line up does. This may be important to some. It is to me which is why I bought LTT in the first place. the last thing I want to do is apply PERL or 303 over a protectant on leather. The reason for spending the extra coin on these products is because of the look, feel and stain protection they offer. I would not prefer to apply a product that is meant for rubber and vinyl over them. The real question is whether the amount of UV protection offered in LTT actually makes a difference or not in the end. I have not noticed any detriment in oxidation using LM PC. So I kind of stopped buying into the UV protection angle.
- Sight fragrance added IME. Noticeable fresh scent while applying. But oddly enough that scent is completely gone 5 to 10 minutes later once the product is dry.
- Very expensive to have shipped over to the USA.


So if I had to really sum up some of the key differences that first come to mind between the two last step protection products it would go like this :

- Leather Masters gives a better feeling to the leather with its soft touch effect. it also gives a more visual even appearance.

- LTT is the product that is easier to apply and is taken in faster and dries quicker. (although both take 24hours for the polymers to fully cure). Over application is not a concern at all. LM is very easy to apply but you have to be aware not to overapply it and to use the correct applicator as I have found foam to not work best when applying either product.

- LTT offers UV Protection and LM does not. Will this 'actually' make a difference in the end ?

- Its tough to say which one is more durable, but I think that Leather Masters Protection cream may last longer.

For Maintenance of these leather sealants its best to follow the manufacturers recommendations. Leather Masters suggest using there "soft cleaner". LTT suggests using there Auto Ultra Maintain. My preference is to wipe the seats down with a damp cloth weekly. If I see a spot to two that needs to be cleaned up I will put the LM soft cleaner in a trigger spray and add one spritz to my damp towel, helping to dilute the product. I feel that doing this maintains the coating instead of just going at it with a full strength cleaner, removing the coating, then starting over again. After about 2 months I will clean the seats again with 1 of Leather Masters cleaners (strong cleaner), then reapply.

LTT makes a 1 step cleaner/protectant called Auto Ultra Maintain. This product cleans and protects with a very nice fresh scent (cant describe the smell but its not a leather scent and its also very mild one the product dries). This product works great to clean without removing the protection you recently applied. The way I use this product is by cleaning my seats with a damp rag, then using a spritz or two of the Ultra Maintain on my damp towel to remove blemish's in the leather. I like the product for what it is and what it does, but I find that wiping down with a damp towel is faster and easier for me. I prefer to deep clean often then re-protect on the drivers seat. On the seats not being used often, this product can stretch your application of the protectant to every other time compared to the drivers seat. So If I protect the drivers seat with a 2 step product every two months, The LTT ultra maintain could help me stretch the application of the passenger seats to every 4 months.

In the end LTT Ultra Maintain is a TRULY unique product that has zero competitors available that I know of in the USA. Its a true dedicated leather cleaner that is safe, but its also a leather protectant also. with UV protection. When I say protectant, dont get that confused with other traditional leather products that use the word also. Protectant can mean a lot of different things. For example, when pinnacle leather products say they 'protect' the leather, they mean UV protection and moisture. There is nothing in traditional leather products that protects the seats from staining or abrasion. Thats what sets Leather Masters and LTT apart from those products. The word protect is describing something VASTLY different than the way traditional leather conditioners are. Two completely different things.

Personally I think the 1 step product, Ultra Maintain, is the best product to use on all the leather upholstery around the vehicle. Basically making it a great interior cleaner/protectant. If you have a leather dashboard or leather door panels this is the product you want to use often for wipedowns.

Leather Masters also makes a product called "Vital". The name comes from Revitalization. This product was made to penetrate and soften old and stiff leathers. Protected or finished leather has a vinyl top coat. Its said on these forums that no conditioner can penetrate these finished leather top coats but that not true. It would be better stated if people said, "MOST" leather products can not penetrate this top layer on finished leather. The reality is that finished leather has a vinyl clear coat that is breathable and flexible. Most products can not penetrate but some can. Leather Masters Vital is one of those products. Its water based and has small enough molecules to go past the top coat. (from what I have read regrading the product line). Same goes for the protection products. They have molecules that are small enough that can go into the protected leather. Oil based molecules can not. which is why you see greasy , slippery and patchy results when not using the correct products.

As for my experience using Vital, I have very little to add. I used the product once before I knew what it was designed for. On my new Audi leather it made no difference. and it also made using the LM system more laborious and time consuming. Its my understanding that is product was specifically made for leather repairs and older stiff leather. Its not a protectant at all and has its use's. Of which ime, are not needed for my scenario's of protecting cars that are relatively new. LM recommends that you use 1 of their cleaners and then go straight to protection cream afterwards. This is why all the kits dont include vital.

So to recap, as for Leather Cleaners I think Leather Masters has the more comprehensive offering. 3 of 4 different strength cleaners that are all very safe to use. LTT offers one cleaner that is similar in power to strong cleaner or rapid S and also very safe to use. So when I consider the pricing of shipping I recommend using LM.

For protection I find that I like both products. they both offer slightly different attributes which could really only be appreciated by buying and using both of the products.

In any case, by choosing either of these products, I personally feel that you are doing the best you possibly can to care for your leather interior. While also keeping it looking its best and helping to avoid stains and abrasion form the stains.

LMK if you have an specific questions.

If your car is over a year old and you have been using old school leather "conditioners" I would HIGHLY recommend this kit to aid in removing all of the old conditioners to get to a clean base. They use the starter cream, then protection cream. This kit is fantastic and I really like the fact that includes everything you need to convert to LM in the correct way. The only thing missing in the kit is a couple MF applicators to apply the Protection creams. You can use the soft white towel to apply it, but I prefer MF for a more even application and to avoid using too much product.

Leather Master Car Leather Interior Service Kit, leather care, leather cleaner, leather protection (http://www.autogeek.net/leather-master-car-service-kit.html)

Microfiber Applicator Pads spread car care products evenly & neatly. Microfiber is nonabrasive and safe on clear coat finishes. (http://www.autogeek.net/cobmicpad.html)

For any other scenario I would recommend this kit :

Leather Master Car Leather Protection & Cleaner Kit, Leather Master Ink Away Ink Remover, ink lifter, leather cleaner, leather protection (http://www.autogeek.net/leather-master-kit-ink-away.html)

and add this for extra cleaning power
Leather Master Car Interior Rapid Cleaner S, Rapid Leather Cleaner, Leather Master Auto Care Master (http://www.autogeek.net/leather-master-rapid-cleaner.html)

Always use MF to apply the protection cream. avoid using foam app's.
Microfiber Applicator Pads spread car care products evenly & neatly. Microfiber is nonabrasive and safe on clear coat finishes. (http://www.autogeek.net/cobmicpad.html)

[Paul A.]

Wow, mg6045, thanks a bunch for that very detaileD summary of your experience with both! Very, very much appreciated. GREAT POST.

[WRXINXS]

mg6045,

Do you think that the LeatherMasters Protection Cream does protect from abrasion? I only ask because you said it felt grippy and not slippery. I noticed that as well when I used it on my leather seats and was wondering if the grippyness would encourage abrasion wheras the slippery feel of the LTT would help prevent it?

[judyb]

Thank you for a very detailed review.
If I may add a few points:
The reason we produce the Ultra Maintain product is because if you have added protection to your leather it is removed by detergent cleaners which will then require you to replace the protection each time you clean.
The Ultra Maintain is formulated to clean without removing the protection and adds to it instead. This means that with regular cleaning the deep cleaning process is only required once a year - then the protector can be reapplied.
If the LTT process is followed the products are much more economical in use.
We only produce 1 strength deep cleaner as this has been formulated for optimum use - although the Ultra Maintain us also a cleaner so we do actually do 2 strengths - we also do a Jean & Dye Transfer Remover Kit which contains a stronger cleaner in the event that one is needed. Following the LTT programme will prevent dye transfer from occurring and we will be introducing LeatherGuard which is guaranteed for 1 year.

We are hoping to find a distributor in the USA for our auto range which is in the middle of being rebranded if anyone is interested or we are always willing to do a group buy if a few would like to combine shipping costs.
Watch this space

Any grippy feel on the surface will attract more surface dirt which would then lead to more abrasion

It is always recommended to avoid the use of microfibre cloths for the cleaning and protection of finished leather as these are 'grippy' themselves and can further damage any areas of weak finish.
Cotton or lint free cloths are a better option
Hope this helps
Judyb

[Mustapha]

I've used both LTT and LM...


:urtheman:
WOW!!! Thank you so much. I cannot convey how useful, detailed, and astronomically helpful this post was. Leather care has always been a somewhat opaque industry to me. For a week, I researched posts on several forums (from posts dated 2008 til 2012) on as much I could about Leather Masters and LTT. Until now, no one had provided this level of quality info.

:applause:

[Mustapha]

In any case, by choosing either of these products, I personally feel that you are doing the best you possibly can to care for your leather interior. While also keeping it looking its best and helping to avoid stains and abrasion form the stains.

LMK if you have an specific questions.



You posted this (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/31703-sonax-tire-gel.html#post406464) (see excerpt below) 2 years ago.

Can the Sonax Leather Foam (http://www.autogeek.net/sonax-leather-foam.html) somewhat compete against LTT's Auto Ultra Maintain because it's also a 1-step cleaner+protector? Where does 1z Leather Care or Optimum Leather Protectant (aka OPP) fall among leather cleaner+protectors?

Also, can you please compare Sonax Dashboard Cleaner vs. 1z Cockpit Premium? Sonax's DC isn't as popular as 1z CP hence my uncertainty on which to order. From your mini review 2 years ago, you mentioned similar cleaning power but that the Sonax had better 'protection'. How do you feel now, and which do you recommend?


Sonax Leather Foam - Amazing !!! Love this one. I have put all of my other leather products on the upper shelf. Those include the Leathermaster's trio kit, 1z leathercare, and OPT Protectant plus. Lots of lifting cleaners, very foamy, Matte finish or very low gloss. It cleans as well as the Leathermaster cleaners which surprised me. And uses a beeswax for conditioning. The thing I love most about this leather care product is the way it makes the leather feel after using it. Its tough to explain , but the leather has a nice matte kind of glow to it, and feels super soft and smooth. This is a product where pictures cant describe how great of a product it is.

[golliger]

We are hoping to find a distributor in the USA for our auto range...

Judyb


I really hope this happens.