Damp sanding orange peel with what I have :)

[jfoster]

Meaning, I already have the start of what I believe are the tools to get the job done and I just need to know what else to pick up.

I have a porter cable, meguiers 1500 and 3000 unigrit finishing pads various foam pads and menzerna (forget which but it's a couple years old and it's the one for harder clear finishes).

This is a repaint, black and the orange peel is a little heavier than I like, so I want it gone :).

Should I pick up the unigrit 1500 sanding pads or go with sandpaper and sanding block? What else do you think I need?

I'm in FL, if I place an order today, will it ship today (get it tomorrow)?

Thanks guys.

[Mike Phillips]

Welcome to Autogeek Online!

Heck of an introduction thread starting out by joining and then letting us know you're going to wetsand you car!


What are you working on?

Do you know how much paint was sprayed? As in how many coats of clear?




:)

[Mike Phillips]

My buddy Todd Helm was testing out the new CarPro Denim Orange Peel Removal Pads here in the Autogeek Garage yesterday to a door panel on his car that was recently repainted and had quite a bit of orange peel.

He used these pads with the new Menzerna FG 400 to level the peel and while he was doing this I was doing Microfiber Pad testing (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/59228-sonax-lc-ultra-fiber-microfiber-pads-impressed.html) on black paint.

I watched him do the work and then inspected the results and I have to say I was very impressed.

These pads,

CarPro Denim Orange Peel Removal Pad (http://www.autogeek.net/orange-peel-removal-pads.html) – 5.25 Inches 2 Pack


Using the denim pads has a couple of benefits,


a. No sanding marks to remove.
b. Less steps.
c. Safer if you're not experienced sanding or compounding sanding marks
d. Done correctly, less removal of top coat


He's writing the article from his testing today so consider this as an option.


:)

[Mike Phillips]

Should I pick up the unigrit 1500 sanding pads or go with sandpaper and sanding block? What else do you think I need?



Yes. If your goal is to remove the tops of the hills called orange peel to level them with the low point the valleys, then start by block int out by hand or machine.

#1500 would be as low as I would go especially if you don't know how many coats of clear your painter sprayed.

You could do this by machine to using #1500 sanding discs and NO INTERFACE PAD. You want a very flat hard surface on your sanding backing plate and the interface pad provides too much cushion.






I'm in FL, if I place an order today, will it ship today (get it tomorrow)?

Thanks guys.



I can have one of the CS people chime in on this question. If you're close to Stuart and want to bring your project car by I'll help you do dial in a process that works to your expectation.


If you've never machine sanded before then check out my article here,

Damp-Sanding Tools, Tips and Techniques by Mike Phillips (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wet-sanding-cutting-buffing/25915-damp-sanding-tools-tips-techniques-mike-phillips.html)


It's long but that's because it's incredibly detailed.



:)

[Mike Phillips]

Watch this video too. It's made up of two things,

Interview with the people involved with the project

How to segments all the way through showing how to hand sand, machine sand, compound and polish.


Video: Helping in the Heartland - Part 1 The Transformation (http://http//www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-car-garage-how-videos/58649-video-helping-heartland-part-1-transformation.html)


I don't think there's ANYTHING like it on the Internet or that can be bought in a DVD



:)

[Mike Phillips]

Just to note, everyone attending my class in two weeks will get to learn how to machine sand and compound on this 1963 Impala in the link below...


Demo Cars for Detailing Boot Camp Class (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/sign-up-saturday-detailing-101/59133-demo-cars-detailing-boot-camp-class.html)



:xyxthumbs:

[FUNX650]

Hi and Welcome to AGO!!!


If you're close to Stuart and want to bring your project car by I'll help you do dial in a process that works to your expectation.

^^^One of the best offers you'll ever have^^^...DO IT!!


:)

Bob

[ricky s]

I'm in FL, if I place an order today, will it ship today (get it tomorrow)?

Thanks guys.

Yes, if you place your order by 11 AM, it will ship today and you will get it tomorrow. You also have the option to pick it up from our warehouse if you are near Stuart. If you can't pick it up and don't place it by 11, then just give me a call and I'll make sure it ships out today for you. :props:

[jfoster]

Call you in a bit. I'm going to place an order but I got stuck at work (the nerve of these people!).

Mike, thanks for all of the tips. I actually have another account on here but it's disabled for some reason (probably inactivity?). Not that I posted much but I did my share of lurking and reading. I've used your products to polish my 03 Mach 1 to a mirror finish (minimal orange peel on that one, so I never sanded it). Had zero tracers or anything...for at least 3-4 hours ;)
http://tampaftp.com/jeff/2003%20Mach%201/IMG_7653.jpg

Sounds to me that I need to get the unigrit 1500 sanding, not finishing pads. Is there any wisdom at all in using the 1500 sanding, the 1500 finishing, then the 3000 finishing - or should I go right from 1500 sanding to 3000 finishing?

The car is my wifes 01 Cobra. It's black. It has very low miles but the previous owner neglected to remove love bugs from it and also allowed acid rain/fallout to etch the top surfaces to the point of no return. I had a local paint guy do the work and while he did a good job, I'm just picky about orange peel. He put two coats of clear on it and according to him, he puts on the clear a little heavy handed - so his 2 coats are closer to most painters 3 coats.

http://sht.tl/0lC

[jfoster]

Additionally, the painter probably fixed some dirt or something and left some holograms and swirls. New black paint = huge project for the rest of my life :)

[Mike Phillips]

First...

Wow! Mustang looks awesome!

http://sht.tl/0lC






Sounds to me that I need to get the Unigrit 1500 sanding, not finishing pads. Is there any wisdom at all in using the 1500 sanding, the 1500 finishing, then the 3000 finishing - or should I go right from 1500 sanding to 3000 finishing?



Depends upon how hard the paint is. You can remove #1500 Sanding with #3000 Finishing easier and faster on softer paints than harder paint and you won't know till you actually start compounding.

For those reading this that might be confused...


Sanding discs = NO FOAM BACKING = MORE AGGRESSIVE CUT

Finishing discs = Have FOAM BACKING = Less aggressive cut and even less aggressive if you use the interface pad.



From my article here, see the parts in red...


Meguiar's 6" Unigrit Sanding and Finishing Discs (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wet-sanding-cutting-buffing/26285-meguiar-s-6-unigrit-sanding-finishing-discs.html)


Meguiar's new Unigrit Sanding Discs are specifically designed for damp-sanding and can be used with a 5/16" orbit sander. These Unigrit discs offer uniform particle size and placement over the face of the disc and are available in both 3" and 6" sizes.

Meguiar's 6" Unigrit Sanding and Foam Finishing Discs
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/834/DampSanding03.jpg


Meguiars Unigrit™ 1500 6 Inch Sanding Discs - #S61500 (http://www.autogeek.net/meguiars-6in-sanding-discs.html)

Product Attributes

Precise, uniform grit particles for a smooth and even sanding pattern
Ideal for removal of dirt, orange peel and severe paint defects on fresh finishes
Sanding = No foam backing
Quickly levels texture
Micro hook & loop interface

Meguiars Unigrit™ 1500 6 inch Finishing Discs - #S6F1500 (http://www.autogeek.net/meguiars-6in-sanding-discs.html)

Product Attributes

Precise, uniform grit particles for a smooth and even sanding pattern that buffs out in seconds
Finishing = specialized foam backing
Quickly refines sanding marks & removes moderate surface defects
Soft foam backed disc for texture matching and scratch refinement
Always used damp – water only
No sanding lube
Micro hook & loop interface
Meguiars Unigrit™ 3000 6 Inch Finishing Discs #S6F3000 (http://www.autogeek.net/meguiars-6in-sanding-discs.html)

Product Attributes

Precise, uniform grit particles for a smooth and even sanding pattern that buffs out in seconds
Finishing = specialized foam backing
Quickly refines sanding marks & removes moderate surface defects
Soft foam backed disc for texture matching and scratch refinement
Always used damp – water only
No sanding lube
Micro hook & loop interface









The car is my wifes 01 Cobra. It's black. It has very low miles but the previous owner neglected to remove love bugs from it and also allowed acid rain/fallout to etch the top surfaces to the point of no return. I had a local paint guy do the work and while he did a good job, I'm just picky about orange peel. He put two coats of clear on it and according to him, he puts on the clear a little heavy handed - so his 2 coats are closer to most painters 3 coats.



Very good. Kind of helps to know what you're working on...


You can probably get away going from #1500 SANDING Discs to #3000 FINISHING Discs. Worst case scenario is you might have to sand a little longer, use an extra disc up etc.

Be sure to work clean, use a clean source of water from a spray bottle and remember what I wrote about B.I.T.E. if using Meguiar's.




B.I.T.E.

This is key remember… BITE which stands for Break-In Time Efficiency

New discs SKIM the surface until they break-in. A brand new disc requires anywhere from 2-4 passes to break-in before maximum cutting efficiency is reached. This has to do with physical process taking place on the surface of the paint and a physical process taking place on the surface of the paper.

Top coat hardness is a huge factor and unknown variable between cars and effects how fast or how slow a disc will break-in. During the manufacturing process, the Unigrit abrasive particles are embodied in a slurry which hardens into a solid medium and this medium offers a controlled rate of break-down.

Efficient cutting is seen when the water slurry on the surface is whitish in color. This is an indicator of clear paint particles suspended in the water film on the surface.

During break-in, the disc goes from skimming to biting or abrading... your job?

Pay attention to the task at hand.


This circles back to monitoring how much water you're using because a lack of whitish appearance to the water could mean the disc is either,

Not broken in yet
Too much water on the surface resulting in hydroplaning
The disc is spent or used-up, that is the majority of abrasives have been worn off the face of the disc

The appearance for all three of the above is clear water on the surface, so pay attention to the amount of water on the surface and how much area you've used each disc to sand and the concentration or lack thereof of the whitish appearance to the lubricating water.




When using 3M Trizact, the discs don't need a break in time, they start cutting instantly.


Good luck and have fun. Can't wait to read of your success and see some more wicked finish results.


:dblthumb2:

[jfoster]

Thanks. It's one of those cars though - being black, it looks great when it's not in the sunlight. After this repaint, I think it has potential - just need to get it cleaned up.

Did I make a mistake by not ordering the megs backing plate? I have the one on my PC that I use for foam pads and I think it's basically the same?


Thanks for the info. Just ordered some sanding discs, so we will see how it goes!

[jfoster]

Watching the AMX video now. The finish looks similar to our Cobra, some orange peel.

[Mike Phillips]

Did I make a mistake by not ordering the megs backing plate? I have the one on my PC that I use for foam pads and I think it's basically the same?




It's important to match the backing plate diameter plus other things like hook-n-loop to the pad or in your case interface and sanding discs being used but what you have will work.

If the backing plate is a little undersized then you're going to see some mushrooming effect with the foam interface and if you use just a sanding disc with an undersized backing plate then portions of the outer perimeter of the sanding disc won't do any cutting as they won't have any support.

But in the BIG PICTURE you can still sand down the orange peel and then refine your more aggressive sanding marks with a higher grit level.


:xyxthumbs:

[jfoster]

Thanks again - Now I see that I should have purchased some vinyl tape too but I think I can work around that.

I have to tell you, and I know you've been told this before - I've never bought from a company in which the owners were so involved in the product development and direct support to the customers. Just awesome. Thank you.