Advice for machine buffing new exotic cars [Archive] - Auto Geek Online Auto Detailing Forum

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Radarryan

11-20-2012, 02:16 AM

I need some advice regarding machine buffing a couple of my new cars. I have a 2012 Aston Martin Vantage Roadster that is only a couple of months old and a 2013 Porsche 911 (991) Carrera Cabriolet that will be delivered next month.

I just purchased a Porter Cable 7424XP (PC) and Lake Country CCS pads - white, blue, green (to apply AIO products on DD cars), and red.

Since they are new cars they have little, if any, defects that need to be removed. I purhcased the PC to save my arm and to ensure that the polish is being "worked" into the paint.

My first concern is that the white pad will have too much cutting power to use with a basic prewax cleaner. I do not have swirls or scratches that need filling. I just don't want to prematurely take off layers of the clear coat when I know that there is a finite amount and eventually swirls and defects will need to be buffed out. What pad should I use for the prewax cleaner and then with the polish? The wax will either be applied with the red pad or by hand (unless someone has a good way to apply paste wax by machine.)

Should I save the white pads for more serious correction work, and strictly stick to the grey, blue, and red pads? If so, which pads would work best with best products. Again, no need to use aggressive products, just want to keep my cars looking show car new every day. To be perfectly honest, I rather be on the safe side and not have a perfect result (i.e. not use a aggressive cutting pad that would provide superior results but would have less chance on marring or thining the paint.)

The products I am using are the ones that I have had in the garage for years. Once I run out of this stuff, I will upgrade to the higher quality goods offered on this site. I have Zymol HD Cleanser and Meguiars Prewax cleaner step 1 for prewax cleaners. I have Meguiars pure polish step 2 for polish. I have Zymol Carbon, Meguiars NXT Tech Wax 2.0 paste wax, Zymol Cleaner Wax liquid, and a Mothers or Meguiars Cleaner Wax paste. Please let me know if these products are acceptable for now, and any directions for applying these products using the PC. They are all "made" to be applied by hand but obviously machine application would be preferable.

I'm thinking that in the future I would use a prewax cleaner (whatever is recommended), pure polish (whatever is recommended), [maybe a glaze (again, whatever is recommended)], then a paint sealant (whatever you all reccomend for me), and then finally, a carnuba based wax (either Pinnacle, Wolfgang, Swissvax Concours or Zuffenhausen, or Zymol (Carbon, Concours, or Glasurer)). Which waxes do you think work best?

Thank you all for your advice/help! I will make sure to post some pictures of the Aston in the next week or so!

rmagnus

11-20-2012, 12:06 PM

Nice rides. I'd approach it like any other full detail. After washing inspect the paint to see what really needs to be done. Just because ther are new cars doesn't mean they aren't going to have problems.

As you've said start with a test panel and the least aggressive solution. My guess is with a PC (great tool BTW) you'll wind up using the white pad for polishing at speed 4-5. Finish up with less pressure and or a softer polishing pad. If you really do the correction justice a glaze will not be needed.

Your products will work fine. You might consider a sealant since both are new cars give them more protection. You can always do a wax.

The PC may be the perfect buffer to start with because it is difficult to damage your paint with yet can do significant corrections. You'll developed your own product likes and dislikes. I like Colinite 845 wax but there are many others equally as good.

Mike Phillips

11-20-2012, 12:37 PM

Paint is paint.

You can work on a Ferrari or a Ford Focus and regardless of the "shape" of the body, you treat the paint the same way and that is you do a TEST SPOT.

You dial in a system that works to reach your goals to one small area and once you PROVE your approach works to one small area you then simply duplicate the same process over the rest of the car working section by section.

Here you go...

How To Do a Test Spot (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/50162-how-do-test-spot.html)

A Test Spot
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/722/TestSpot03.jpg

A Test Spot is where you take the products, pads, tools and your best technique and buff one small section, usually on a horizontal panel, to test out these things to see if they'll create the results you want, hope for and dream about in some cases.

If your choice of products, pads, tools and technique works to remove the defects and restore the finish to your expectations, then theoretically you should be able to duplicate the same process to the rest of the vehicle and create the same results.

If your choice of products, pads, tools and your technique doesn't create the results you want, hope for and dream about then you can come to the forum and post what you're seeing and we'll do our best to help you tweak your technique, substitute different products, pads and/or tools to see you through to success.

Tape Line
It helps to place a piece of painter's tape on a horizontal surface, usually the hood or trunk lid but if you want to be more discreet you can use the roof. Then only work on one side of the tape line as this will make it very easy for you to see visual changes due to the distinct demarcation line between before and after results.

Tape-line using 3M Green Painter's Tape
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/796/TapeLine02.jpg

Before and after results along the demarcation line
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1422/FlexVideo005.jpg

Test Spot performed by Nick Rutter @ Autogeek on a severely oxidized 2006 GMC Canyon
Here's a series of pictures taken by my co-worker Nick from a severely neglected truck he helped another co-worker Jason to buff out. For this project Nicked performed a Test Spot and the pictures really tell the story of what a Test Spot would look like that I've created this article using these pictures and Nick's permission.

The project vehicle is a severely neglected 2006 GMC Canyon with a heavily oxidized clear coat finish. In this case Nick used a one-step cleaner/wax applied by machine but you would buff the paint in the same way with whatever "system" you were planning on using.

If using a multiple step approach then you would use all the products and do all the steps to your Test Spot because this would be what you would do to the entire vehicle if the results from your Test Spot are good and you want to see what the true end-results are going to be. You can if you want skip applying the LSP or Last Step Product if you're happy with the last prep step as in most cases the application of your LSP will simply either make the paint look even better or maintain the results you've created.

Test Spot
http://www.autogeekonline.net/nick/Duragloss%20Test%20Spot/test-spot-redone.jpg

Hood Competed
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/722/TestSpot04.jpg

Truck completed
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/722/TestSpot06.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/722/TestSpot07.jpg

See the original write-up for this project here,

How To: Maximize Time with a Cleaner Wax/AIO (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/50085-how-maximize-time-cleaner-wax-aio.html)

Test every detailing project that's new to you
If you've never worked on the paint on the project you're currently detailing, the before you buff out the entire car, take a moment to do a Test Spot.

I do a Test Spot on ever car I work on as this give me an idea of,

How the paint reacts to machine polishing
How the products and pads are working on this specific type of paint
A feel for if the paint is hard or soft or somewhere in-between
A very good idea as to how the paint will and thus how the vehicle will look after the project is finished.

Plus, if you're buffing out the car professionally you can share with your customer how awesome they're car is going to look after you get through with it.

Here's the results from some of the Test Spots we've done to some of the recent projects cars here at AGO

1959 Chevrolet El Camino - Extreme Makeover - Modeled by Christina (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/pictures-autogeek-s-car-week/44228-1959-chevrolet-el-camino-extreme-makeover-modeled-christina.html)

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1339/1959ElCamino008.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1339/1959ElCamino084.jpg

Live Broadcast Video - 1965 Plymouth Valiant - Extreme Makeover (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/pictures-autogeek-s-car-week/49293-live-broadcast-video-1965-plymouth-valiant-extreme-makeover.html)

Before
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1436/1965Plymouth013.jpg

Test Spot
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1436/1965Plymouth025.jpg

After
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1436/1965Plymouth078.jpg

Wetsanding Test Spot
Even if you're going to wetsand or dampsand a vehicle it's just as important to do a Test Spot by sanding a section of paint and then testing to see what it's going to take to remove 100% of your sanding marks.

Test Spot
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1377/MorePeopleMoreBuffers003.jpg

Hood compounded
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1377/MorePeopleMoreBuffers004.jpg

After
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1377/jaysk508.jpg

Test, test, test...
Test out the products you're planning on using over the entire vehicle to one small area first. Make sure you're getting the results you want, hope for and dream about before buffing out the entire project.

:)

Mike Phillips

11-20-2012, 12:41 PM

Mike Phillips

11-20-2012, 12:43 PM

You might also consider getting this DVD as it goes over exactly how to use this tool...

How to Properly Use the Porter Cable 7424XP Dual Action Polisher (http://www.autogeek.net/porter-cable-dvd.html)

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1313/PorterCableDVD.jpg

:)

Mike Phillips

11-20-2012, 12:48 PM

My first concern is that the white pad will have too much cutting power to use with a basic prewax cleaner.

It's not a concern.

I do not have swirls or scratches that need filling. I just don't want to prematurely take off layers of the clear coat when I know that there is a finite amount and eventually swirls and defects will need to be buffed out.

What pad should I use for the prewax cleaner and then with the polish? The wax will either be applied with the red pad or by hand (unless someone has a good way to apply paste wax by machine.)

Instead, wash or wipe the car clean, that is remove light dust.

Check the paint to see if it needs to be clayed, YES even brand new exotic sports cars need to be clayed but you won't know if you don't test.

The Baggie Test - How to inspect for above surface bonded contaminants (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/27967-baggie-test-how-inspect-above-surface-bonded-contaminants.html)

Then instead of messing around with a pre-wax clean simply use a high quality Fine Cut Polish.

My how-to book defines the categories of products so I'm not going to go over it here but suffice to say, a Fine Cut Polish is just as beneficial and even more so than a pre-wax cleaner.

Heck if you're going to run the buffer over the entire car might as well remove minor imperfections at the same time. The fine cut polish will also PRE-CLEAN the paint at the same time and prep it for application of wax.

:xyxthumbs:

Mike Phillips

11-20-2012, 12:49 PM

How To Detail Your Brand New Car by Mike Phillips (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/54451-how-detail-your-brand-new-car-mike-phillips.html)

Below is the order of steps to do to your brand new car, truck or sports utility vehicle. Note that even a brand new car may need some of the below procedures because car paint becomes contaminated while it's being shipped and while it's being stored.

Also, dealerships are notorious for putting their new cars through their own detail shop to get them ready to sell only to have their in-house detailers instill swirls and scratches at the same time they're supposed to be making the car look beautiful.

It's sad to say, but that's how the new and used car dealerships here in the United States work.

So after getting your brand new car, or your new-to-you used car home, here's what you do.

Wash and dry.
Inspect the paint with your sense of touch and visually in bright, overhead sunlight.
Iron X paint and wheels - Then re-wash to remove the Iron X residues off the paint and wheels.
Clay - If needed. Your inspection will tell you.
Polish - If needed. Your inspection will tell you.
Apply either a Car Wax or a Paint Sealant
Note: You really only need to use one type of protection product. Some people use two types but you don't have to. Instead you could apply two coats of the same product. Protection products include,

Car Waxes
Synthetic Paint Sealants
Paint Coatings

Quote:
See this article for more information
3-Categories: Waxes, Paint Sealants and Coatings (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/34185-3-categories-waxes-paint-sealants-coatings.html)

How to inspect your car's paint after you have washed and dried it.
Watch the below short videos. In them, I show you how to inspect your car's paint. It is by inspecting your car's paint that you determine what needs to be done.

This is one of my better write-ups with over 100 high resolution pictures showing before, process and after shots. Here's the link to the entire thread.

1954 Ford F-100 - Extreme Makeover - Process and products used (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/pictures-autogeek-s-car-week/42270-1954-ford-f-100-extreme-makeover-process-products-used.html)

Here's what you want to do to any car that you're going to detail
First, wash and dry the car so you remove any loose dirt. This keeps you from rubbing the dirt into the paint when you feel it with your hand or a baggie for above surface bonded contaminants.

It also removes the dirt to get it out of the way so your eyes can SEE if there are any swirls in the paint.

So wash and dry first, then inspect with your sense of touch and visually with your eyes.

How to feel the paint with your hand to check and see if you need to clay the paint

1954 Ford F100 Show Truck..." target="_blank">1954 Ford F100 Show Truck...

How to inspect the paint using the sun to check for swirls, holograms and scratches

1954 Ford F100 Show Truck..." target="_blank">1954 Ford F100 Show Truck...

Your results and what to do?

Paints is in good shape
If the paint feels smooth as glass and if you don't see any swirls or scratches, or if swirls and scratches don't bother you then you can keep it simple and,

A: Apply a wax or paint sealant - Skip all other steps after washing and drying and inspecting.

B: Use a pre-wax cleaner and then apply a wax or paint sealant. A pre-wax cleaner, also called a paint cleaner simply ensures the paint surface is squeaky clean and clear and perfectly prepared to accept a wax or paint sealant. If you opt to use a paint coating you'll want to follow the manufactures directions for prepping the paint before applying the coating as directions vary.
Paints is in bad shape
If you discover the paint has above surface bonded contaminants then you need to clay the paint. You have two options,

Option 1: Wash and dry the car and then clay paint.
This is the normal way most people started their detailing project till products like Iron-X were introduced. That is after washing, drying and inspecting, if they felt contaminants on the paint they would move onto the claying step.

Option 2: Wash and dry the car and then use Iron-X to remove any iron particles and then re-wash the car to remove the Iron X residue and dissolved iron particles. Dry the car and then clay the paint.

The benefit this approach offers is,

IF there are any iron particles in your car's paint you will dissolve and remove them chemically with the Iron-X instead of abrading and pulling them out with clay and then potentially instilling swirls and scratches into the paint because now you have iron particles embedded into the clay that you're rubbing all over the paint.

Iron X = Insurance Policy
In my opinion, doing an Iron-X treatment to paint that you've never worked on before is a good idea, it's like an insurance policy. You buy insurance to protect ourself but you hope you never need it.

You use Iron-X JUST IN CASE there's any iron particles in the paint but you actually hope that there's not.

It's better to use Iron-X and NOT see the spray turn red than it is to see the spray turn read. Think about it, if it turns red that means there was iron particles in the paint, that's a bad thing. If it doesn't, it's whew... I got lucky.

Then after choosing and following the steps in one of the above options you move on to the next step, which is usually doing some type of correction work to the paint using a combination of compounds and polishes, or keep it simple and use what are called pre-wax cleaners or paint cleaners.

Both of these steps,

Correcting with compounds and/or polishes

OR (You don't do both, pick one or the other)

Using a Pre-Wax cleaner
Are done after the washing, claying steps and before the sealing step where you will apply your choice of a,

Car Wax
Synthetic Paint Sealant
Paint Coating

Each of the three categories above are different types of products that do the same general thing and that is leave a layer of protection on the paint to protect it and make the paint look good.

You only need to use one product from one of the three categories. You don't have to use products from more than one category although a lot of "Serious Car Enthusiasts" will as an option apply a synthetic paint sealant first for long lasting, durable protection and top this sealant with a coat of wax for aesthetics reasons, that is to make the paint look beautiful.

See this article,
Topping - Definition - How to Top also called Topping (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/40089-topping-definition-how-top-also-called-topping.html)

Maintaining your car
After all of the above is done, you can then maintain your car's finish using a combination of spray detailers and spray waxes or spray sealants.

A spray detailer is for removing,

Light dust
Fingerprints
Smudges
Clay Lube (when claying)
A spray wax or a spray sealant is typically a faster, shortcut way of restoring that just waxed look without having to actually get out a traditional liquid or paste type product. Instead you mist on the spray wax or spray sealant, spread it around and wipe it off in the same way you would use a spray detailers.

People get confused as to what the difference is between a spray detailer and a spray wax so here's the difference,

A spray detailer is for cleaning your car, getting dust of it without scratching the paint. A spray on wax or spray-on sealant is for adding more protection to paint that is ALREADY CLEAN, for example after you wash the car or AFTER YOU USE A SPRAY DETAILER.

Simple really, but for some reason a lot of people get confused over spray detailers and spray waxes.

I certainly don't want to scare anyone or make washing and waxing your car any more complicated than it has to be, I'm just trying to lay out ALL the various factors to consider if the car in question is important to you as well as your time and money/investment.

:xyxthumbs:

Mike Phillips

11-20-2012, 12:49 PM

Page 37 - Paint Condition Categories (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/51281-page-37-paint-condition-categories.html)

I reference this so much on this forum and other touch points that it's come to the point where it's going to make things faster for me while typing to have a dedicated page with the picture on it...

Page 37 - Paint Condition Categories

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1313/Page37ofBook.jpg

:xyxthumbs:

Setec Astronomy

11-20-2012, 12:55 PM

I need some advice regarding machine buffing a couple of my new cars. I have a 2012 Aston Martin Vantage Roadster...

Since they are new cars they have little, if any, defects that need to be removed.

I understand your logic, but some of those exotics seem to have a lot more factory defects than more "pedestrian" cars. Some of it may be the more involved/better painting that results in more hand work, and more hand defects, or it just may be that a mass-production car has a more developed painting process that doesn't typically require/involve hand prep.

Specifically, and it may have been Italian cars, I have seen threads on other forums where detailers were removing sand scratches and pneumatic sander pigtails from cars costing >$100K. However crappy a Ford or Honda etc. paintjob may be, you never have to worry about removing sand scratches on a new car, but you might on your exotic.

Anyway, hopefully you will just have a little transport dirt to remove, and not any dealer-installed swirls or leftover stuff from the factory.

Radarryan

11-20-2012, 10:25 PM

Cool cars and expensive cars.

Interesting you're going to learn how to machine polish on these cars. I would recommend practicing on your own car just a little with the PC so you're comfortable with how it opperates before turning it on and working on one of the above cars.

I am going to be practicing on my 2000 Range Rover (daily driver) that has now been banished to outside the garage. There are swirls, light scratches, and other imperfections that I will be first getting out with the PC, using orange, white, blue, and red LC CCS pads. Again, my preference would be to use the car care materials that I currently have before I "upgrade" to the high quality stuff that you offer on your website.

Mike - Thank you for ALL of your help across the forum. Your advice is impeccable and your kindness can be felt through the screen! You're the man. Keep up all the GREAT work! I know I'm lucky to have these toys. I want to keep these babies looking nice!

Radarryan

11-20-2012, 10:27 PM

Thank you! I totally know what you mean. I noticed that when I picked up the Aston from the dealer, there was dried wax residue on the inside portion of the side view mirror. You could only see it when you electronically closed the mirror, but still! It doesn't matter if you're spending $200,000 for a car or $20,000, you want things to be done right - the first time!

Mike Phillips

11-21-2012, 08:20 AM

I am going to be practicing on my 2000 Range Rover (daily driver) that has now been banished to outside the garage.

Poor Rover... :laughing:

There are swirls, light scratches, and other imperfections that I will be first getting out with the PC, using orange, white, blue, and red LC CCS pads. Again, my preference would be to use the car care materials that I currently have before I "upgrade" to the high quality stuff that you offer on your website.

Just be sure to start out doing a Test Spot, dial in your process and your technique before tackling the entire rig...

Mike - Thank you for ALL of your help across the forum. Your advice is impeccable and your kindness can be felt through the screen! You're the man. Keep up all the GREAT work! I know I'm lucky to have these toys. I want to keep these babies looking nice!

Always my pleasure... already looking forward to your success...

:dblthumb2:

sparklingwater

11-21-2012, 07:53 PM

Wow thanks MIke P. for all the resources. Very helpful and insightful and informative!
I would personally rather be safe than sorry. So if the paint looks immaculate as if it can't get any better than "if it ain't broke , don't fix it!" Simply wash, dry and apply the sealant or wax of your choice with a finishing pad. If you feel you will do more good than bad with a polish. Use the least abrasive polish with a finishing pad (least abrasive pad) with just a few overlapping even passes. *Do a test spot/area first to achieve your goals!* I personally find that paint is worst than what it may appear to be, but if you plan to take care of your cars in the long run than there is no rush. I like procedures of the baggie test, and iron-x test to see if there's need to remove iron and or clay the paint. Also because if everything is ok you can go straight to waxing or sealing the paint.

If it needs a little work use a finishing pad with a quality polish of an abrasive of 1-2 (10 being the most abrasive compound,0-being a prewax cleaner of no abrasive quality) then seal it with a sealant/wax with a finishing pad or by hand! Good luck!

MarkD51

11-21-2012, 09:32 PM

Man, I'd love having your garage, and what's in them!

You've mentioned you've already got the PC7424XP, and I read through your host of goodies. IMO, most are junk, give most of that stuff away, and start fresh with some better quality products.

There is the possibility, that you might not need to take a DA machine, or any other machine to your new vehicles if you know how to properly care for them, wash them, and protect them.

If, or not they are garaged, and if I didn't have these already, I'd probably be looking at two Covercraft Car Covers to start.

Learn to perfect a good wash system will stave off damage for a long long time, that you won't need to resort to machines for paint correction.

Polishes, and Glazes to correct minor paint flaws such as a little sleek here and there can be done by hand, albeit a bit longer. Less is often better, and the old adage applies "don't fix what isn't broke".

And as well, there's nothing wrong with hand application of waxes, or sealants.

Good hand detailing tools are a must. Think soft with whatever you buy, Mitts, Detail Brushes, Wheel Brushes, Applicator Pads, MF Towels.

Careful hand application can lessen the need of extracting products from nooks, and crannies.

Best of luck with those beautiful vehicles! Enjoy! Mark

MinnBobber

11-21-2012, 10:39 PM

Hi,
I recently detailed two new cars:
1. a Honda Accord which was produced in US (of course) and was picked up 4 hours after delivery to the dealer.
2. a Mercedes E class produced in Europe (of course) and transported here. Again minimal time at dealer to contaminate paint.

Both benefited from Iron-X treatment to remove contaminents imbedded in the paint like
rail dust/ iron particles etc. Not a huge amount but enough turned purple (which shows it is working on iron) to make it worth while. Paint somewhat smoother after this step.

Same for claying both of them. Some contaminents removed by claying (could see in the clay) and paint much smoother after this step with the baggie test.

I had great results then using Pinnacle Paintwork Cleansing Lotion, a non abrasive polish to further clean / polish the paint. applied with Flex 3401 DA.It gave another level of smoothness to the paint. Paint was now a perfect base for wax or sealant.

Then sealant - I used Black Fire Wet Diamond Paint Sealant.
Then wax or wax/poly combo. I used a few different ones.

As others said. I'd donate your products to neighbors and get the AutoGeek supreme level products as those cars deserve the best.

That's the very basic start and the sky is the limit--I had the new wheels off and did the same process on wheels.
Same process for window glass, minus the Iron-X and with special seal on windshield.
Some special products available for tire treatment.
Interior is another whole area to clean/treat.
Same for engine bay.
Good luck.