Issues with black paint on a relatively new car.

[Nephron]

Hello everyone, I've been trolling the forum for quite sometime and finally decided to become a member as I've recently ordered some products. I greatly appreciate the excellent information and feedback from forum members here.

I'm currently having some issues with my 2012 Dodge Challenger SRT8, which is my daily driver. Its color is a non-metallic black. I've washed it pretty much weekly using the methods described on this website, including the two bucket method (with grit guard) with a top down approach (always cleaned the wheels first), automotive grade wash, and careful drying using microfiber towels.

Despite this I'm starting to see light swirls in the paint on the challenger. I'm using the same wash method on my Alpine White BMW M5 and there are no visible (to me) swirls. After reading this site, I felt that perhaps my drying method was suboptimal, so I did purchase the Airforce master blaster last week, and it does dry really well. I had a similar issue with the paint on a CTS-V that I owned, it too was a non metallic black color. I do not use well water, and water does not appear to be hard.

I'm guessing I'm going to have polish the challenger in the relative near future. I'm still a bit anxious about this as I realize that polishing does remove a small amount of the clear coat. Last year I did purchase a 6 inch Griots Garage Random Orbital buffer, but I've only used it once. Would this DA be appropriate for light swirls? I would also like to get everyones input on what products/pads I should start with in this situation. I was considering the Wolfgang line for now. I was also curious as to whether I should upgrade to a tool such as the Flex 3401. I found Mike's youtube video on this to be excellent.

In general I'm just looking to get some general guidance on this situation, and perhaps some tips on how I can improve my wash method so as to avoid swirls, but it seems to me no matter how careful you are with nonmetallic black, swirls will devleop over time.

Thanks everyone and happy Thanksgiving!

[DaveT435]

Do you change the water after the wheels, tires, and fender wells? The Griot's should be fine for what you are doing. I would go with a very mild polish...maybe Optimum final polish?? Use a polishing pad...or if they are very very light maybe a finishing pad. Go more aggressive if that doesn't do it...

[mackey]

chances are if you're seeing it on your black vehicle, the same techniques are marring the others, just not as obvious.

i have a CTS-V as my DD and the good thing is, it's black. the bad thing is...it's black. looks great at night, daytime or with ample lighting, any and every imperfection will shine through like a sore thumb.

in this game, cleanliness is next to godliness. look into anything that may give you pause on adding dirt to your wash method. if your wash mitt is remotely dirty, it will mar the finish. if you suspect dirty water or wash solution, change it to a fresh batch. if you suspect dirty towels, fold them over or change them and so forth.

i usually maintenance wash with the garry dean method and if that isn't possible due to life or weather, i will do the 2-bucket/GG system along with the pre-wash and foam when i'm able to then afterwards continue with the GD method

as to the swirls, try the least abrasive method you think will work and if it doesn't, go a little more aggressive. though if your wash method isn't sound it wouldn't make sense to polish the swirls out just to put them back in the next time you wash.

FWIW i'm only a hobbyist and far from a pro like mike.

[Nephron]

Do you change the water after the wheels, tires, and fender wells? The Griot's should be fine for what you are doing. I would go with a very mild polish...maybe Optimum final polish?? Use a polishing pad...or if they are very very light maybe a finishing pad. Go more aggressive if that doesn't do it...


I use a completely different bucket to clean/wash the wheels, that bucket is never used on the rest of the car.

[Mike Phillips]

First...

Welcome to AutogeekOnline! :welcome:






Hello everyone, I've been trolling the forum for quite sometime and finally decided to become a member as I've recently ordered some products. I greatly appreciate the excellent information and feedback from forum members here.

I'm currently having some issues with my 2012 Dodge Challenger SRT8, which is my daily driver. Its color is a non-metallic black. I've washed it pretty much weekly using the methods described on this website, including the two bucket method (with grit guard) with a top down approach (always cleaned the wheels first), automotive grade wash, and careful drying using microfiber towels.

Despite this I'm starting to see light swirls in the paint on the challenger.




Yes. The reason for this is because clear coat paints are scratch-sensitive and what this means but can sometimes be hard to wrap your mind around is that even though modern clear coat paints are harder than traditional single stage paints, (the only two major paint systems that have been used since we stopped riding horses and started driving cars), they still will scratch easily.

Since your car is black, any defect shows up easily to your eyes. In case you have not read this yet, here you go...

"Black is not a color, it's a full time job"


It is very difficult to maintain a 100% swirls and scratch free finish on a daily drive with black paint. The people that I know that own black cars PURPOSEFULLY and keep them looking brand new all the time also do something to the paint every other week.

By "do something to the paint", I mean besides washing them carefully, they also machine apply a wax every other week or pay someone to machine apply a wax every other week.

By re-waxing often, fine swirls and scratches are either removed or masked, doesn't matter which because the end result is the same, a nice looking black finish.

You can do the same thing by using any premium quality finishing wax and some spray-on waxes.






I'm using the same wash method on my Alpine White BMW M5 and there are no visible (to me) swirls. After reading this site, I felt that perhaps my drying method was suboptimal, so I did purchase the Airforce master blaster last week, and it does dry really well. I had a similar issue with the paint on a CTS-V that I owned, it too was a non metallic black color. I do not use well water, and water does not appear to be hard.



White paint or silver metallic tends to be good choices of colors for people that don't want to see swirls and scratches because it's more difficult to see these types of defects on these light colors. It's not that the swirls and scratches are not there, it's just more difficult to see.







I'm guessing I'm going to have polish the challenger in the relative near future. I'm still a bit anxious about this as I realize that polishing does remove a small amount of the clear coat.


As long as you're using common sense and quality pads and products the amount of clear you will remove is minimal and should not be a major concern.





Last year I did purchase a 6 inch Griots Garage Random Orbital buffer, but I've only used it once. Would this DA be appropriate for light swirls?


Yes.






I would also like to get everyones input on what products/pads I should start with in this situation. I was considering the Wolfgang line for now. I was also curious as to whether I should upgrade to a tool such as the Flex 3401. I found Mike's youtube video on this to be excellent.


The Griot's DA Polisher is what I've called a safe version of a rotary buffer because it has a lot of power but it's still very safe.

The Wolfgang Polishes are 5-star quality all the way and not only do they give you pro grade results on black paint but they are also very easy to use, that is work with and wipe-off and wipe-off is very important because take my word, it's no fun to struggle wiping residue off any paint especially black paint because you'll end up putting scratches back in during your struggle.






In general I'm just looking to get some general guidance on this situation, and perhaps some tips on how I can improve my wash method so as to avoid swirls, but it seems to me no matter how careful you are with nonmetallic black, swirls will develop over time.





In my how-to book I do talk about washing carefully, the big picture is just make a few pases over each section of paint, don't SCRUB the paint or make multiple passes.

If there is dirt on the surface you will loosen it enough to rinse it off with just a few passes of a wash mitt over the surface. So stop making passes.

If there is dirt and you continue to make passes over the finish then you are scrubbing the dirt into the paint causing scratches, so stop.

See the paragraph on page 15 under People Watching






Thanks everyone and happy Thanksgiving!




And to you and your family, have a fun and safe Thanksgiving Holiday...

:)

[Mike Phillips]

This article has to to with the type types of paint we've had since we stopped riding horses and started driving cars...


The practical differences between single stage paints and a clear coat paints (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/21924-practical-differences-between-single-stage-paints-clear-coat-paints.html)



:)

[vet]

Welcome!

I have a black F-150 daily driver. Yes, it is a full time job keeping it clean.

I clay it at least twice a year, using diluted ONR for lube, or Megs QD. I've been using DP Poliseal, let it cure overnight in the garage, then a coat of DP Max Wax, also at least twice a year, more like 4 times or more. For washes, I use ONR. I do the wheels last, or use the hose and separate cleaners first.

I use Poor Boys SSR1 for swirls if I see any after the clay. I apply sealant and wax with a PC 7424 XP and white pads, with Pinnicle spray conditioner.

DP Wheel Glaze on the chrome wheels at least twice a year.

For touch ups, I use Megs QD or the ONR QD. I also use Megs XMT (?) spray wax between waxing if a quick shine is needed.

I take the truck in parades for my VFW, so I need it to be clean almost alll the time so it's not such a hassle getting ready for a parade.

Is it 'perfect' all the time? Heck No, but it's usually cleaner than most of the vehicles around here.

Hope this helps, but follow Mike's advice, and you can't go wrong.

[Ryry11]

Black is the best and the worst color for people like us. Nothing is more rewarding and better looking than when the sun hits that car just right and it looks like a black lake that you could stare into and see no bottom. Deep, reflective, dripping wet color with no defects. However, unless it sits in the garage covered up, only to uncover it to stare at the paint from time to time, swirls and scratches are going to happen. Even with the best materials and washing techniques, swirls and scratches happen, especially on daily drivers. All you can do is practice good techniques, which you have, and learn to live with them when you have to, and polish when you can. Hey, if we never swirled or scratched our cars, we'd never have or be able to use all our awesome AG products, right?

[Nephron]

First...

Welcome to AutogeekOnline! :welcome:


Yes. The reason for this is because clear coat paints are scratch-sensitive and what this means but can sometimes be hard to wrap your mind around is that even though modern clear coat paints are harder than traditional single stage paints, (the only two major paint systems that have been used since we stopped riding horses and started driving cars), they still will scratch easily.

Since your car is black, any defect shows up easily to your eyes. In case you have not read this yet, here you go...

"Black is not a color, it's a full time job"


It is very difficult to maintain a 100% swirls and scratch free finish on a daily drive with black paint. The people that I know that own black cars PURPOSEFULLY and keep them looking brand new all the time also do something to the paint every other week.

By "do something to the paint", I mean besides washing them carefully, they also machine apply a wax every other week or pay someone to machine apply a wax every other week.

By re-waxing often, fine swirls and scratches are either removed or masked, doesn't matter which because the end result is the same, a nice looking black finish.

You can do the same thing by using any premium quality finishing wax and some spray-on waxes.





White paint or silver metallic tends to be good choices of colors for people that don't want to see swirls and scratches because it's more difficult to see these types of defects on these light colors. It's not that the swirls and scratches are not there, it's just more difficult to see.







As long as you're using common sense and quality pads and products the amount of clear you will remove is minimal and should not be a major concern.





Yes.






The Griot's DA Polisher is what I've called a safe version of a rotary buffer because it has a lot of power but it's still very safe.

The Wolfgang Polishes are 5-star quality all the way and not only do they give you pro grade results on black paint but they are also very easy to use, that is work with and wipe-off and wipe-off is very important because take my word, it's no fun to struggle wiping residue off any paint especially black paint because you'll end up putting scratches back in during your struggle.






In my how-to book I do talk about washing carefully, the big picture is just make a few pases over each section of paint, don't SCRUB the paint or make multiple passes.

If there is dirt on the surface you will loosen it enough to rinse it off with just a few passes of a wash mitt over the surface. So stop making passes.

If there is dirt and you continue to make passes over the finish then you are scrubbing the dirt into the paint causing scratches, so stop.

See the paragraph on page 15 under People Watching






And to you and your family, have a fun and safe Thanksgiving Holiday...

:)


Thanks for the welcome Mike,

Could you please make some recommendations for pads to use along with the Wolfgang products? I'm also going to detail my wifes 2007 Acura MDX which is also black and has heavy swirls, so I'll likely need a good cutting pad.

[ihaveacamaro]

Thanks for the welcome Mike,

Could you please make some recommendations for pads to use along with the Wolfgang products? I'm also going to detail my wifes 2007 Acura MDX which is also black and has heavy swirls, so I'll likely need a good cutting pad.

I'm not Mike but 5.5 inch flat pads with a 5 inch backing plate may be just what the doctor ordered :)

I'm thinking 3 orange and 3 white should set you straight