Vintage Car Detailing

[ChrisMessier]

Hey guys,
A customer dropped off a British Racing Green vintage Triumph tonight. Any special tips?

[GoldBl4d3]

Be careful :)

[rmagnus]

I watched a awesome video of Mike Philips using Meg's #7 to condition vintage paint on a gold car before any polishing to preserve as much of the paint as possible. I'll try to find the video and post a link for you.

[rmagnus]

I couldn't find the video. Maybe Mike Phillips can help out. It's definitely worth looking for and I think would really help you on this detail.

[anarchy]

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b305/anarchymymind/GTO.jpgThis was my last vintage car I detailed and I was a wee bit nervous also. Polished with 205, glaze #7 and liquid tech wax Meguiars.

[BillyJack]

I couldn't find the video. Maybe Mike Phillips can help out. It's definitely worth looking for and I think would really help you on this detail.

This isn't a video, but a very comprehensive print article on antique singe-stage paint restoration. I've done the process a few times and can emphatically attest to its effectiveness. AutoTraderClassics.com - Article Restoring Single Stage Paint: Part 1 (http://www.autotraderclassics.com/car-article/Restoring+Single+Stage+Paint%3A+Part+1-65310.xhtml?conversationId=21363)

Before you start, the most worthwhile step would be to find out all the information you can about the paint. Vintage cars can have thin, fragile vintage single-stage paints or recently applied modern-day coatings with plenty of material. Any information you can gather before you start will be valuable.

Bill

[Mike Phillips]

Hey guys,
A customer dropped off a British Racing Green vintage Triumph tonight. Any special tips?

Congratulations!


First, just because it's vintage, old or antique doesn't necessarily mean it has single stage paint, now days when cars are restored most body shops use the same paint systems they use for collision repairs on new car which means using a basecoat/clearcoat paint system.

Only if the owner specifically asks for and works with their painter to spray a single stage paint will a car be painted single stage.

Here's a test you can do to find out...


How to Test for Single Stage or Clear Coat Paint (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tricks-tips-techniques/34829-how-test-single-stage-clear-coat-paint.html)

To test for a single stage paint, try to find a light colored or white polish if you're working on any kind of pigmented paint. If you're testing white paint then try to use a polish with a color to it and a dark colored cloth, (so you can confirm that you're removing white paint and not just seeing the color of the paint).
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1084/56StarCheif039.jpg


Use an ample amount for plenty of lubrication as you're going to want to push firmly if no oxidation is present as was the case with the finish on the classic car.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1084/56StarCheif040.jpg


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1084/56StarCheif041.jpg



Confirmed, we're working on a single stage paint... also note the heavier accumulation were my fingers pressed down with the most pressure... this is because you can exert more pressure to the small area of your finger tips than you can with your entire hand, you can use this to work for you or cause problems depending upon what you're trying to do...
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1084/56StarCheif042.jpg


:)

[Mike Phillips]

If it is single stage paint, that doesn't also mean it's antique single stage paint.

Can you post a picture of itt? Also, BEFORE you start, if the paint is single stage and it IS oxidized, try to get a GREAT BEFORE Shot like I show in this article, especially if you want to use before and after pictures to promote yourself.


The power in the after shots is created in the before shots (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tricks-tips-techniques/21216-power-after-shots-created-before-shots.html)

In my life I've had the good fortune to work on a lot of cool cars and with a lot of cool people for which I'm always very thankful for. I've also had the good fortune to work on a lot of very neglected cars, some special interest and some not but to the owner it was alway important and when it's important to the owner then it's important to me.

One of the things I've learned when doing dramatic extreme makeovers, whether on oxidized single stage paints or swirled-out clear coats, is the importance of capturing great before shots.

One of the biggest problems with capturing a great before shot is someone, not understanding the value in the before shot and all it's ugliness, will take some kind of paint polishing product and make a clean, shiny spot in an otherwise really neglected and ugly panel like the hood or the trunk-lid. These types of panels make the best before and after shots because they are usually large, they are usually in the worst shape, you can look down on them, or in this case take an overhead shot of them, and the hood is specifically the panel that gets the most attention from car enthusiasts.

So over the years when I've discussed doing future extreme makeovers on project cars with the owners I've always stressed the importance of not touching the paint till AFTER we get the before shots.

It's just so uncanny that if you don't bring this topic up, then sometime before you arrive at the car's location or the car is brought to your location, someone and their good intentions will do you the favor of rubbing something smack dab in the middle of the hood and make a shiny spot and ruin the before pictures.

Anyway, a couple of years ago while scheduling an Extreme Makeover, I wrote this little sentence that I think states the concept very clearly and wanted to post it in it's own thread with a time stamp for others to learn from and hopefully explain the "why" behind the idea...

So here it is and you can quote me on this,


"If you ever do an extreme makeover on a car or some other project, remember the power in the after shots is created in the before shots"


So do your best to get GREAT before shots before bringing your hand or your polisher down onto the paint and making a shiny spot. And try to educate the owner if there's going to be time passing before the project is scheduled to also not take any action until after the before shots area captured. Just as a precaution. Better safe than sorry.


Often times I'll see a great write-up on a spectacular and dramatic before and after project and the detailer will say something like,

"Sorry I didn't get any before pictures"

This happens all the time. It's happened to me because I didn't have a camera handy or the batteries were dead.

So just a note to anyone reading this, if you ever do an extreme makeover on something cool or special interest, remember, the power is in the before pictures, so make plans to capture them before buffing on the car.


Here's an example,

I met this gentleman at our local Autozone and mentioned to him that his car was a great candidate for an extreme makeover; explained the process and gave him my phone number and in our conversation I let him know the importance of not making a shiny spot on the hood.

I figured like most people he'll never call. A few months later this guy calls me and reminds me of the car and asks if I still want to use it for an extreme makeover? Let's me know he's going to take his Dad along for an upcoming car cruise and car show.

I asked him,

Have you worked on it at all?

He said no

So I said, bring it on over and we'll buff it out till it shines like a diamond, which he did. Anyway, it's just a nice old Ford and it was fun to polish out. I was just happy he didn't rub some kind of compound in the middle of the hood in the months between when I met him at Autozone and the day he brought it over.

He purchased this 1960 Ford Ranchero off eBay in running condition for $900.00 and has been tinkering on it in his spare time while using it as a daily driver back and forth to the cement plant where he works. So the paint sits out in the Mojave Desert sun and bakes with a coating of all kinds of dust from the cement plant landing on it.

Before
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/763/1960Ranchero01.jpg

One half covered and taped-off
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/763/1960Ranchero02.jpg

Before and after results
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/763/1960Ranchero03.jpg

After
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/763/1960Ranchero06.jpg

:)

[Mike Phillips]

Besides all the above information, if it is in fact single stage paint and it is old paint or original paint then,

Avoid rubbing on high points, body lines, edges and corners
Chances are good these areas are already thing from being rubbed on by all the people that have worked on this car before you that were NOT careful. So be care as the paint will tend to be thin in these areas.


Get some Meguiar's #7
If the paint is oxidized and rub the paint down really well with the #7, this will replenish the paint with rich polishing oils not found in any other product on the market that work really well to restore the full richness of color to the paint plus make the paint more workable.

Do this BEFORE you work on the paint.



Then follow the best practice of,

"Use the least aggressive products to get the job done"

Least aggressive products means more than just the chemicals, it can also mean the pad and tools you use.

Let us know what kind of paint you're working on, single stage or bc/cc and the condition. Click the link below and evaluate the paint and place it into one of the categories listed.

Page 37 - Paint Condition Categories (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/51281-page-37-paint-condition-categories.html)


Then all our forum members will chime in and see you through to success...


:)

[Mike Phillips]

In some cases, with a car that really does have antique or old single stage paint, you might find the safest approach is to rub it out carefully by hand. We had a project just like this recently and actually used it for a Live Broadcast. Watch the live broadcast as I share lots of tips and techniques and even tidbits about old paint and #7 Show Car Glaze throughout the video.

Here's the link to the video and thread...

Video and Pictures - 1970 Mustang Mach 1 Detailing Clinic at AutogeekOnline.net (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/pictures-autogeek-s-car-week/51494-video-pictures-1970-mustang-detailing-clinic-autogeekonline-net.html)



The paint looked great to the average person in pictures but in person you could easily see cloudy oxidation.


Oxidized Single Stage Paint
The below is a reflection shot of the overhead florescent tube lights, what I want you to see is the dull, opaque look the paint has at the bottom of the reflection of the lights. This is light oxidation and even though the car looks beautiful in the pictures above, in person the paint has a dull sheen to it caused by oxidation. This is a single stage paint by the way.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1460/1970Mustang006.jpg




Here's one AFTER pictures after we hand rubbed it out...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1460/1970Mach1BeautyShots002.jpg



:)

[ChrisMessier]

Thanks for all that info, Mike! I appreciate it. My customer was extremely pleased. I completed the detail by 6:00 last night, so I wasn't able to read all of this beforehand...
I wound up claying the car, then using Meguiars #2 Cleaner + PC and Megs 7000 cutting pad, followed by a #7 coat with Meg's 8000 polishing pad, and finished with Colli 845 and a finishing pad. I will post pictures later when I get back home.
Thanks again!

[Mike Phillips]

So was it in fact a single stage finish?





I wound up,

claying the car,
then using Meguiars #2 Cleaner + PC and Megs 7000 cutting pad,
followed by a #7 coat with Meg's 8000 polishing pad,
and finished with Colli 845 and a finishing pad.


I will post pictures later when I get back home.
Thanks again!




The only comment about the above is that the Meguiar's foam cutting pad with #2 Fine Cut Cleaner, can tend to leave micro-marring. You won't see it on all paint systems and colors without inspecting but that' a very aggressive foam formula and when used with a tool that oscillates it can and will leave micro-marring or DA Haze. I wrote the original caution statements for that pad when it was introduced.

The #7 will fill in any micro-marring but #7 is non-abrasive in and of itself, so by itself it won't remove defects. That said, together with a foam polishing pad the pad will act as a form of abrasive together with the oscillating action of the Porter Cable plus downward pressure and time, then if this was a softer single stage paint this combination could possibly remove any micro-marring by the #2/Foam Cutting pad combo.

Regardless of the nitty-gritty, my guess is that the paint still came out beautiful looking and the Collinite sealed the deal.


Congratulations, can't wait to see the after pictures and any before pictures if you took them.


:)

[ChrisMessier]

Thanks for the support guys! Mike, your insight is much appreciated as always. I'm glad to know a finishing pad/#7 is a combo for better results.

Anyways, here are some before and after photos for all of you check out. Enjoy!!
Before:
13083

13084

13085

13086

13087

13088
After Fine-Cut Cleaner
13089
After clay, Meg's #2, #7 Glaze, and Collinite #845.
13090

13091

13092

The car was in a local parade just days after the detail was performed. My customer was more than thrilled, and couldn't believe the depth that the paint had achieved.

By the way, the paint did have a clearcoat.:xyxthumbs:

[Mike Phillips]

Post #7



First, just because it's vintage, old or antique doesn't necessarily mean it has single stage paint, now days when cars are restored most body shops use the same paint systems they use for collision repairs on new car which means using a basecoat/clearcoat paint system.

Only if the owner specifically asks for and works with their painter to spray a single stage paint will a car be painted single stage.









By the way, the paint did have a clearcoat.:xyxthumbs:






Thanks for the follow-up! Single stage paint can be a little strange to work on if you've never worked on it before but as you found out, this vintage car was re-painted using a modern paint system.

So instead of dealing with oxidation you were dealing with swirls which I cover in detail in this article,

The practical differences between single stage paints and a clear coat paints (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/21924-practical-differences-between-single-stage-paints-clear-coat-paints.html)



Nice work.


:)