Struggling with MF pads on rotary

[Lowejackson]

If there is a technique to using a (Optimum) MF pad on a rotary, I have yet to find it. After less than a minute, all the fibres have flattened and need to be cleaned to fluff them back up again. After experimenting with increasing and decreasing the amount of polish on the pad I simply cannot find the right level. Tried different brands but for example using Optimum Hyper Polish, tried one spray, two sprays, three sprays etc before buffing. Tried physically rubbing the polishing into the pad and then adding a dab of polish, all to no avail.

Speed wise, varied from 900 to 1500 and still cannot polish for very long without hitting a problem. Watching videos (mainly of DA use) others are polishing for quite a while before the need to clean and refluff the fibres.

What I am doing wrong

[richy]

If there is a technique to using a (Optimum) MF pad on a rotary, I have yet to find it. After less than a minute, all the fibres have flattened and need to be cleaned to fluff them back up again. After experimenting with increasing and decreasing the amount of polish on the pad I simply cannot find the right level. Tried different brands but for example using Optimum Hyper Polish, tried one spray, two sprays, three sprays etc before buffing. Tried physically rubbing the polishing into the pad and then adding a dab of polish, all to no avail.

Speed wise, varied from 900 to 1500 and still cannot polish for very long without hitting a problem. Watching videos (mainly of DA use) others are polishing for quite a while before the need to clean and refluff the fibres.

What I am doing wrong

I must admit, I've never tried them with a rotary. If I need heavier correction than my standard go-to yellow Buff and Shine foam pad, then I step up to the black wool Tuf Buff pad that don't shed at all and finish down quite well for wool. To me, those mf pads are a disappointment for correction, especially compared to wool. Way, way slower too for that matter. I've kept mine just for when I am working on an Infiiniti sticky clear or some other very heat-adverse surface.

[Chris Thomas]

They won't stay fluffed. They need to be blown out with compressed air and/or brushed after each panel for best performance. I also recommend changing to a fresh pad more often than with foam or at least as much. You'll find them a little hard to control if you forgo a decon wash and clay bar treatment. The debris they remove tends to stick in the fibers, so it's best to have the surface as clean as possible before starting to polish. If your pad needs cleaning quickly, it most likely removing a lot of debris/paint/oxidation.

[Mike Phillips]

They won't stay fluffed.




Correct.

The Optimum MF pads work better than the Meguiar's MF pads on the rotary buffer because they have a thicker foam backing to them. You need that cushion between the face of the pad and the backing plate to avoid the grabbing characteristic.

The thicker foam backing makes for a much smoother buffing experience when using a rotary buffer. Flexible backing plates help too.



On the topic of the microfiber "fibers" staying fluffy while buffing,

They don't.

That is the fibers matte down and lay flat when used with a DA Polisher or a rotary buffer. I remember reading all kinds of posts by people about how not to use firm pressure when buffing with microfiber pads as it would cause the fibers to lay down flat? Whatever.

You buff for a few seconds and all the fibers lay down flat. Period. They only fluff up when you clean the pad with compressed air or a pad conditioning brush and then as soon as you use them again the fibers all lay flat and matte together. I could never figure out what all those other people were talking about?


:dunno:

[Setec Astronomy]

That is the fibers matte down and lay flat when used with a DA Polisher or a rotary buffer.

You buff for a few seconds and all the fibers lay down flat. Period. They only fluff up when you clean the pad with compressed air or a pad conditioning brush and then as soon as you use them again the fibers all lay flat and mat together.

I have observed this as well. The question I have is, when the fibers are "flat", are you losing the advantage of the MF disc (more surface area) or is it the same as a foam pad at that point? I've used the Meg's MF discs on a PC and I like them a lot, but I haven't done experimentation with other polishes on them, only D300/301. They do seem to be more effective at the beginning of the cycle (when they are clean) then at the end (when they need to be blown out).

[Mike Phillips]

I have observed this as well.



Yep... just couldn't figure out what all these other guys were talking about? You can't over a pad over the paint and remove swirls.

:laughing:





The question I have is, when the fibers are "flat", are you losing the advantage of the MF disc (more surface area) or is it the same as a foam pad at that point? I've used the Meg's MF discs on a PC and I like them a lot, but I haven't done experimentation with other polishes on them, only D300/301. They do seem to be more effective at the beginning of the cycle (when they are clean) then at the end (when they need to be blown out).




Good questions...


I think the benefit lies with the fiber itself for its intended purpose.


:)

[Lowejackson]

They won't stay fluffed. They need to be blown out with compressed air and/or brushed after each panel for best performance.

Thank you everyone

Chris@Optimum, I wish I could make it to the end of a panel. After less than a minute the pad is becoming hard to control.

I will take your advice regarding a clean panel and give it another try.

Just on a slightly broader topic, if the flattened fibres decrease the performance, would it be better to have very short fibres rather like velvet, this way the fibres would not get a chance to matt together.

I am sure I have read some threads where people have used velvet pads but I have a feeling there were for very serious cutting purposes. Or it is equally possible my memory has become confused.

[Setec Astronomy]

Just on a slightly broader topic, if the flattened fibres decrease the performance, would it be better to have very short fibres rather like velvet, this way the fibres would not get a chance to matt together.

I am sure I have read some threads where people have used velvet pads but I have a feeling there were for very serious cutting purposes. Or it is equally possible my memory has become confused.

I guess by "velvet" you are referring to the SurBuf pads. I vaguely remember a statement when the Meg's MF pads (oop, discs, sorry Mike) came out, I think it was Todd Helme, saying that they were only good on a DA because the direction change due to oscillation allowed the fiber to shift position, where with a rotary they would just lay down and stay down.

Since Todd and Kevin Brown tend to get into the minutiae of these things, they may already have commented here or elsewhere on the topic, if not it sure would be interesting to see it here.

[Dr Oldz]

About your controll issues. Are you using the Optimum Rotary backing plate or something similar? A traditional style BP doesn't offer the cushioning effect that the Optimum BP offers. As Mike mentioned about the OPT pads suiting a rotary better due to the extra thickness of foam between the MF and hook and loop part, the BP plays just as big of a role if not bigger.

[Lowejackson]

Regrettably not using Optimum backing plates as they are not for sale (as far as I know) in the UK (M14 fitting). I am using Gloss It backing plates which seem to be relatively soft.

Just in terms of my velvet suggestion, I managed to find the ones I was thinking of, from CarPro Velvet Orange peel pad (3000grit) (http://www.carpro.uk.com/product_p/velvet6.htm) and even denim pads Carprouk Denim pad (http://www.carpro.uk.com/Denimpad_p/denim6.htm) and some from Osren (Malaysia)

These are probably/possibly very different things from the Optimum pads but I would be very interested in reading the views of Kevin Brown and Todd Helme. I will do some digging and see if I can find out what they say

[master detailer]

get a wool pad. You have to learn some time. ps h20 spary on your work will help you learn faster and less f ups

[Lowejackson]

get a wool pad. You have to learn some time. ps h20 spary on your work will help you learn faster and less f ups

Thanks, I have some wool pads and have used them many times but I am struggling to get to grips with the MF polishing methodology.

[Mike Phillips]

Thanks, I have some wool pads and have used them many times but I am struggling to get to grips with the MF polishing methodology.


I've used microfiber pads for use with rotary buffers and while I was impressed with their performance and the results I'm still thinking that using either a wool pad for cutting or a foam pad for finishing is going to be just as effective.

That said, I encourage others and practice myself to be open to new ideas, pads, products and techniques.

To date, I still think, based on testing on black paint, that finishing out using foam no matter what the tool, produces the most consistent results for the nicest finish.

Including chemically stripping the paint and inspecting, something that's not everyone includes when sharing their results.

Time will tell...


:)