Orange Peel

[kmsdetailing]

Is it possible to inflict orange peel to your paint buy using a DA? I did several cars and have not seen any orange peel on their cars but yesterday, I was walking out of a 7-11 and I guess I caught a look at the car in such a way, I notioced Orange Peel which I've never seen before; although, I never really looked for it.

I did detail the car: Wash/Pre-Wax, Polish and Wax; did use the Porter DA on it and it looked fine.

So, I did a look up to see what causes Orange Peel and every return on my search yielded the same response. Orange Peel is caused during the paint process.

I also heard from other Challenger owners that some have it and some don't. They owners of White Challengers don't have it at all. Perhaps it has something to do with the paint process.

So, my question is could I have done this or since I've never detailed the car, I just noticed it?

Is there a way to correct it without "sanding it" ; not experienced in this area yet.

Thanks in advance.

[KneeDragr]

You cant cause it yourself, its in the paint. Wetsanding is the only way to correct it, and sometimes, as in the case of GM paint, the peel is also in the base coat so it cant be fully corrected without taking the clear off.

Its really bad on my Corvette.

[Setec Astronomy]

There is no way to cause orange peel by polishing, and really no way to correct it without sanding. Mike Phillips has always recommended against sanding factory paint. I have certainly seen threads where people reduced the orange peel in their factory paint by wetsanding; they also reduced the UV protection of their clearcoat.

One thing to think about now that there are coatings like Opti-Coat 2.0, the latest version of which is layerable...you could sand, then put a double coat of OC 2.0 to restore some/all of your UV protection. I still wouldn't do it, too risky on a new car.

[tuscarora dave]

The orange peel is a result of the painting process. There are many different variables involved in the painting process that can cause orange peel, including but not limited to amount of air pressure used in the painting process, how heavy a coat of paint is applied, quality of the paint spraying tools used, cleanliness of the paint gun used (robotic or human applied) etc.

If a painter were to use a cheap sprayer or simply neglect proper sprayer cleaning routines, the spray pattern could become inconsistent or begin to splatter a less atomized spray pattern resulting in more paint being applied than wanted. One of the end results of this could be heavy orange peel.

It was definitely there before you polished. Probably somewhat overshadowed by swirls and contaminates. Now that you've removed the swirls and contaminates to reveal the true condition of the paint, you can see the orange peel.

To my knowledge, sanding is the only way to remove orange peel but I wouldn't recommend sanding a factory paint job.

[Mike Phillips]

Believe it or not... I have an article on this topic...

I did reduce orange peel and then captured the difference with a pictures by only compounding with a rotary buffer and a wool pad.

Can orange peel be removed or lessoned by just machine compounding? (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wet-sanding-cutting-buffing/50534-can-orange-peel-removed-lessoned-just-machine-compounding.html)

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/648/orangepeellessened01.jpg




Note: This 1958 Chevrolet Impala has a custom paint job. That means the clear would normally be thicker than a factory paint job.



:)

[Old Tiger]

carpro-us.com has orange peel pads that appear to do a good job in the videos. AG doesnt carry them and as far as I know, no one else in the US does either,

[Mike Phillips]

We talked about sanding factory paint to remove orange peel during the Fiat 500 video and I pointed out a couple of issues.

Video and Pictures: 2012 Fiat 500 - Chemical Guys Show Car Makeover - AutogeekOnline.net (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/pictures-autogeek-s-car-week/53273-video-pictures-2012-fiat-500-chemical-guys-show-car-makeover-autogeekonline-net.html)


One issue is that it's easier and less risky to buff a large, mostly flat panel like the hood or roof or door.

It becomes a whole other ball game when you start sanding around more intricate panels, curves, raised body lines and edges.

Anything can be done, the issue is always can it be done for a profit?

If it's your own car then it's a matter of taking your time and lots of it. Of course, there's always going to be the issue of reduced paint thickness and no matter how you cut it, thin paint is not as good as thick paint when it comes to the factory paint.

On the video I think I also stated the cure for the finicky, picky car owner that wants their brand new "cool" car to have a show car finish free from any orange peel. Here's how...

RIGHT NOW! While the car is new and it doesn't need any body work... take it down and pay a custom shop to repaint the car. Since it's new and it doesn't need any bodywork you'll save money on time, labor and materials.

Tell the painter you want him to spray enough clear so that even after wetsanding, compounding and polishing there will still be plenty of clear for the future.

After you tell a car owner this and then tell them how much a brand new paint job on their perfectly good brand new car will cost they are no longer interested. But... that's how you get a show car finish without any orange peel. You start out with a paint job that includes enough clear so that the car can be safely sanded, cut and polished.

I think I cover that in this thread too...

Wetsanding - Fresh Paint vs Factory Paint (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wet-sanding-cutting-buffing/21471-wetsanding-fresh-paint-vs-factory-paint.html)




Fresh paint will be sprayed on custom projects with more planning and higher expectations.
If you're having a custom car project painted, for example you spent months and more than likely years rebuilding a classic Mustang and now it's time to get it painted, in most cases you'll be meeting with the painter ahead of time planning out the paint job and it's at this time you discuss with them your expectations. If you want the car sanded flat and then buffed to a high gloss for a true show car finish, (if this is you goal or expectation), then the painter will spray an extra coat or two of paint to provide plenty of film-build for the painter's helper to safely sand the paint flat. They will also build in the cost of the extra materials, (clear paint), time and labor to your bill.






:)

[kmsdetailing]

Thanks everyone for the response. I really do appreciate it.
Since it's factory painted and it really doesn't bother me since many other Challengers have it and it's just not mine, I can live with it.

In fact, in 1984, I purchased a Monte Carlo SS in white and it had orange peel although, it was more noticeable.

I guess if you look hard enough, you can, most of the time, find fault.

Again, thanks eveyone.

[tuscarora dave]

:whs: (M.P.) That's great advice!!

[Mike Phillips]

carpro-us.com has orange peel pads that appear to do a good job in the videos. AG doesn't carry them and as far as I know, no one else in the US does either,

I've seen these.

Not sure the aggressiveness level but 3M is introducing #5000 Sanding Discs that could be used to lightly sand off the tops of the peel. Then it's pretty easy to buffing out your sanding marks.

I show this here,


Video: Wow! 3M #5000 Grit Polishing I mean Sanding Discs! (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wet-sanding-cutting-buffing/50222-video-wow-3m-5000-grit-polishing-i-mean-sanding-discs.html)



Last I checked the #5000 grit sanding discs are not available to us yet. We do have the #3000 Meguiar's Unigrit discs and these can be used to remove orange peel.


Damp-Sanding Tools, Tips and Techniques by Mike Phillips (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wet-sanding-cutting-buffing/25915-damp-sanding-tools-tips-techniques-mike-phillips.html)

Meguiar's Unigrit Sanding Discs - 6"
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/834/DampSanding03.jpg



At the end of the day, if you're working on a factory clear coat finish then even if you have the tools to remove/sand/abrade the paint to remove orange peel, thin paint is still an issue.

Don't forget, all these steps remove a little paint, not just the sanding step..


Sanding - Removes paint
Compounding - Removes paint
Polishing - Removes a little paint

And then you have the future. What if someone scratches your car, i.e. the dealership runs your car through their brush style car wash.

A bird dropping on the hood, etc.


Just make sure you and/or your customer understands all the ramifications to sanding to remove orange peel.


:)

[KneeDragr]

Those 5000 grit discs look pretty sweet. I wonder how much they would reduce orange peel by themselves, compared to starting with 1500 and working towards the 5000.

If they could cut down the orange peel on my Vette without substantially reducing UV ( car is garaged so much it wont matter as much as a daily driver ), I might consider giving them a shot. Im going to repaint my roof and halo black, so I might use them as a test.

[BrightonRT]

I think you're making the smart decision to just live with it. I have it on my Challenger, and it's true that it doesn't stand out until you polish everything else to a high shine. 95% of people won't notice anyway, and another 3% will know and understand that it's just not worth it.

[Mike Phillips]

Those 5000 grit discs look pretty sweet. I wonder how much they would reduce orange peel by themselves, compared to starting with 1500 and working towards the 5000.

If they could cut down the orange peel on my Vette without substantially reducing UV ( car is garaged so much it wont matter as much as a daily driver ), I might consider giving them a shot. Im going to repaint my roof and halo black, so I might use them as a test.


If you just knock down the tops on say the horizontal surfaces, the areas most people "look" at when looking at a car to size up the quality of the paint job then you could easily get away with it...

Just have a quality compound on hand to remove the sanding marks...


:)

[flyinion]

Thanks everyone for the response. I really do appreciate it.
Since it's factory painted and it really doesn't bother me since many other Challengers have it and it's just not mine, I can live with it.

In fact, in 1984, I purchased a Monte Carlo SS in white and it had orange peel although, it was more noticeable.

I guess if you look hard enough, you can, most of the time, find fault.

Again, thanks eveyone.

Welcome to Chrysler paint :laughing::laughing: I thought Nissan's paint was bad on my silver 350Z, it doesn't have anything on the black forest green on my Jeep. I did kind of notice it adds to the shimmer effect of the really shiny metallic paint in the bright sunlight though, so maybe it's actually a feature? LOL

[6supersport7]

Another thing to consider is that once you get a panel totally flat, it will now show everything and marr much easier. My Z has factory peel and it doesnt get swirls hardly at all. My chevelle is peel free and I can look at it wrong and marr it.