Paint issues after polishing

[scottmoyer]

I need help from the experts. My neighbor has a dark red Camaro that was repainted four years ago. The paint was a professional job, with all trim, door handles, antenna, ground effects, side mirrors, etc removed. There was some inconsistencies in the clear coat and the painter buffed the car when he was done, but left buffer ghosting and some minor wet sanding scratches. The finish didn't look perfect in the sun, so.....

Fast forward four years and 22 miles on the car!!! The car has been garaged since it was repainted and has not been driven. Three weeks ago, we wet sanded the orange peel out of the inconsistent areas of the hood and roof only. I used my Flex buffer with a 3M wool pad and 3M rubbing compound on the roof and hood to remove the wet sanding. Once the shine was back, we used the Porter Cable and Meguiar's 105 or 205 (whichever is the least aggressive) and polished the entire car to a beautiful shine. In my garage, we polished it up and used a shop light to find any missed scratches or hazing for a perfect shine.

Tonight, he took the car to a cruise in, and it was the first time I saw it in the sun since we polished it up. All horizontal surfaces look like he drove through sprinkler mist with rain drop sized blotches all over the hood and roof. The hood is by far the worst. Not all horizontal areas have this problem. The side view mirrors and A pillars look fine. The B pillars look fine, but the tops of the fenders, hood, roof, rear deck lid and spoiler are all spotted. I tried taking a picture, but it didn't turn out.

When he got home from the cruise, we checked it in just standard garage lighting to see if we just couldn't see very well when we polished it up, but every spot was very clearly visible. What happened? It looks like solvent popping, but the paint has had four years to cure in a Florida garage. I would say the the paint might be baked on now with garage temps in FL!!! We tested a small area on the hood by hand using Meguiar's swirl remover and it did not touch the spotting.

Any suggestions or advice is greatly appreciated. The below pics are so you know what kind of Camaro it is. These were taken a week after the paint job.

http://www.users.qwest.net/%7Enscamaro/89iroc/front.jpg

http://www.users.qwest.net/%7Enscamaro/89iroc/driverside2.jpg

[newbdetailer]

That is one sweet car.

[Buckskincolt]

We really need to see the spots in pictures to try and figure out what is going on.

[scottmoyer]

I went to take pictures, but the camera kept focusing on the object in the reflection and not the surface of the paint. I will need to try it again. We did try a few things and it seems that rubbing compound is removing the marks, but not very easily. I'm thinking about pulling out the flex and recompounding the upper surfaces. The only thing we can think of is that the tree overshadowing the parking lot may have caused this, but my car was parked right next to his and I don't have any surface issues on my car. When he pulled in to the lot, that was the first time I saw the car outside since we did the polishing. I noticed a few areas that needed to be repolished, but these marks were not visible at 5pm. By 8:30, the entire top of the car looked like acid rain damage!

[Mike Phillips]

I went to take pictures, but the camera kept focusing on the object in the reflection and not the surface of the paint. I will need to try it again.



Capturing surface defects on paint with a camera is an art form... check this article out...

How-To capture swirls, scratches, etchings and other surface defects with your camera (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tips-techniques-how-articles-interacting-discussion-forums/26917-how-capture-swirls-scratches-etchings-other-surface-defects-your-camera.html)





By 8:30, the entire top of the car looked like acid rain damage!




The defects are either,

Topical - Affecting only the very top or upper surface
Below Surface - The defect penetrated below the top surface


At anytime when you were buffing did you ever turn the buffer over and see the color of the basecoat on any of your buffing pads?

If the culprit ends up being the sap coming off the tree AND the same sap is not affecting other cars, this is a bad sign for the integrity of the actual clear paint used for your paint system.

Beautiful car by the way.


:)

[scottmoyer]

During buffing, the pad remained "clean" with no vehicle color being transferred. The car has 3 coats of clear if I remember correctly. This car was directly under the tree and I was under the outer edge of the canopy. It amazes me that there are no marks on the windshield or back window glass, but the paint completely hazed over with spotting. I will try to get some pics today.

I just spoke with the owner and thought I'd give some additional details. The car was painted in 2008 with a base/clear combination. The person that painted the car said that the Mercedes dealer he works for used a German brand paint back then, not Sikkens. After the car was painted, it sat in the Orlando Florida sun for a couple days to cure. Last year, the owner was working on another car in his garage and pulled the Camaro out. It sat in the driveway for about a month. The paint should be cured after four years and the time out in the Florida sun.

Yesterday, we took some mild rubbing compound and cleaned one area of the hood. It appeared to have done the job. I just heard that the marks came back this morning. He tried cleaning this area again to see results before we spend a full day compounding and polishing again.

[Mike Phillips]

The person that painted the car said that the Mercedes dealer he works for used a German brand paint back then, not Sikkens.



Could be Glasurit...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/722/glasurit.jpg




After the car was painted, it sat in the Orlando Florida sun for a couple days to cure. Last year, the owner was working on another car in his garage and pulled the Camaro out. It sat in the driveway for about a month. The paint should be cured after four years and the time out in the Florida sun.


Just because the clear layer is cured, dried and hardened it can still be easily damaged, check this thread out...

How long does it take for a bird dropping to etch paint? (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/30535-how-long-does-take-bird-dropping-etch-paint.html)





Yesterday, we took some mild rubbing compound and cleaned one area of the hood. It appeared to have done the job. I just heard that the marks came back this morning. He tried cleaning this area again to see results before we spend a full day compounding and polishing again.




Maybe some type of chemical has permeated into the clear? Possibly a way to neutralize it with an acid or a base?

Try to get a picture...


:)

[scottmoyer]

I finally had a chance to get back to the neighbors and try to get more pictures. The camera is so stinkin' smart, it kept trying to overcorrect what I wanted pictures of. The area in the picture might be 3x3" or 4x4", so it's not very big. By using rubbing compound by hand, the marks went away about 50%. By doing it a second time, they went away total of 90%. We haven't pulled out the Flex with wool pad yet, but I think that may be the only fix.

[scottmoyer]

Anyone?

[sparty]

Not easy to tell from the pics, but I have seen something similar on a repainted Jag. On the Jag, those spots were clear coat failure.

-Sparty

[scottmoyer]

Just an update on removing the spots. We'll see if they come back again. If they do, then the owner will talk with the original painter.

On Saturday, we decided to attack this issue. The owner tried removing the spots in his garage with some rubbing compound and saw that two passes seemed to remove the marks. Obviously, that would be way too much work by hand, so we pulled out the 1990 vintage Flex that I have and a 3M wool pad. We used the 3M rubbing compound that I have and needed two to three complete passes to get the spots out. The paint looked much better, but really needed to be polished.

I pulled out the Porter Cable and the Meguiar's 205 to shine the car up. After doing the entire car, I pulled it in the sun and noticed the 205 didn't do a good enough job, so I used the Flex with a Final Finish foam pad and used some 3M polish I had laying around. That seemed to remove all of the rubbing compound marks and really brought up the shine. I need to go over the car again with the PC because I laid down some holograms.

The first time I used the Flex (back in 2000), the pads and the polish were new and I polished up a neglected black Camaro. The finish came out beautiful with absolutely no holograms or swirls, but I can't seem to do that anymore. I don't know what I did different back then. The only thing different today is a smooth foam pad instead of the 3M waffle foam pad. I may be using the Flex on too high a speed, but I don't know. I used it just under "2" on the dial. This is a late 80s, early 90s Flex.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13065&stc=1&d=1344777039

Doing the car was a lot of work and looks fantastic. It took about four hours and required us to wash the car multiple times between applications. I'll try to get pics of the finished product.

[BobbyG]

Wow, that's a gorgeous Camaro Pace Car!! :coolgleam:

[truckbutt]

Just an update on removing the spots. We'll see if they come back again. If they do, then the owner will talk with the original painter.

On Saturday, we decided to attack this issue. The owner tried removing the spots in his garage with some rubbing compound and saw that two passes seemed to remove the marks. Obviously, that would be way too much work by hand, so we pulled out the 1990 vintage Flex that I have and a 3M wool pad. We used the 3M rubbing compound that I have and needed two to three complete passes to get the spots out. The paint looked much better, but really needed to be polished.

I pulled out the Porter Cable and the Meguiar's 205 to shine the car up. After doing the entire car, I pulled it in the sun and noticed the 205 didn't do a good enough job, so I used the Flex with a Final Finish foam pad and used some 3M polish I had laying around. That seemed to remove all of the rubbing compound marks and really brought up the shine. I need to go over the car again with the PC because I laid down some holograms.

The first time I used the Flex (back in 2000), the pads and the polish were new and I polished up a neglected black Camaro. The finish came out beautiful with absolutely no holograms or swirls, but I can't seem to do that anymore. I don't know what I did different back then. The only thing different today is a smooth foam pad instead of the 3M waffle foam pad. I may be using the Flex on too high a speed, but I don't know. I used it just under "2" on the dial. This is a late 80s, early 90s Flex.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13065&stc=1&d=1344777039

Doing the car was a lot of work and looks fantastic. It took about four hours and required us to wash the car multiple times between applications. I'll try to get pics of the finished product.
Unless Flex has totally reversed its dial, you need to set the speed at at least 4-5 to do any kind of correction.

[Kristopher1129]

It looks to me like some of the clear coat had tiny pin holes...probably from failure. Looks like either compound, or polish got stuck in them. That's what I see.

[rmagnus]

I couldn't really tell what was going on from the pictures but I'm curious how the section you wet sanded to remove oranges peel held up? Yes after four years your paint is cured doesn't mean there wasn't something done wrong in the process or bad product.