Not completely swirl free

[TP143]

Hi all,

I am in the middle of my first buff job on my 06 Ford Fusion and am having difficulty removing all swirls. Granted, my vehicle had tons of them to begin with but nothing too deep so I was expecting a complete removal going into this. I am using a GG 6" machine (speed 6 - I started speed 5 but bumped it up when I figured I needed more juice), WG Total Swirl Remover, and an orange pad. I am unable to capture the results in a good picture otherwise I would post one. A few issues:

1. I have only done the top of the trunk (maybe 7 square feet) and have gone over it 3 times at 6 "passes" each time. I would say 80% of the swirls are gone. My main concern is how many times can I go over the same spot before I need to worry about removing too much clear coat, and should it even take this many passes to remove?

2. Do I need a more aggressive product or pad?

3. Also, I have used probably 1/3 of my 16oz swirl remover on just this section so I think I may be using too much product. Should a 16oz bottle cover an entire vehicle?

4. Even on speed 6 my pad is not rotating on any surface that is not completely flat. How do I do any curved area? If I pull the machine away so the pad barely touches then the pad will rotate but this lack of pressure doesn't seem to remove any scratches.

Thanks for the help!

[cleanmycorolla]

16oz should do a couple mid size vehicles, IMO.

Have you tried using a finishing polish? perhaps you're seeing some left over marring from your orange pad and TSR.

[pointillistic_practitioner]

6-9 passes should suffice. Try doing 7, 8, or 9 passes on some sections and see if that helps. That seems like way too much product to me, I had that issue when I started machine polishing (it's not the same as hand polishing, you needn't use so much product). What's your arm speed? If you haven't seen Mike's tuturials on youtube go to autogeeks homepage on youtube and watch the videos where he teaches you how to polish out a black lexus. They're very informative to a beginner. I'd say that if your car is very swirled up an orange pad is probably the way to go, but as cleanmycorolla said, you may want to try a finishing polish.

[Mike Phillips]

1. I have only done the top of the trunk (maybe 7 square feet) and have gone over it 3 times at 6 "passes" each time. I would say 80% of the swirls are gone. My main concern is how many times can I go over the same spot before I need to worry about removing too much clear coat, and should it even take this many passes to remove?



You're working on a 2006 Ford Fusion, I'm guessing this is your daily driver, not a garage queen, show car.


If you're removing the majority of the swirls and all that you're seeing now are randomly inflicted, isolated scratches, these are called RIDS and if the car is a daily driver it's best to learn to live with them versus keep abrading the paint.

If you keep abrading the paint for the isolated few you will sacrifice the UV protection for the mass areas without RIDS.

See the below two articles, if you live in an area close to the equator where your car's paint is exposed to a lot of sunshine, then keep in mind that UV protection/saving the factory clear is vital.

RIDS - The Definition of RIDS and the story behind the term... (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/24045-rids-definition-rids-story-behind-term.html)

RIDS = Random Isolated Deeper Scratches

RIDS
Random Isolated Deeper Scratches. These type of scratches come from normal wear & tear and there is no pattern to them. RIDS are like Tracers in that they are deeper scratches that show up after the shallow scratches have first been removed through a machine or hand buffing process, usually with a compound or paint cleaner. After the shallow swirls and scratches have been removed, any deeper scratches that remain will now show up like a Sore-Thumb to your eyes because there are no longer thousands of lighter, more shallow scratches camouflaging them.

Beginning Clearcoat Failure (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/29197-beginning-clearcoat-failure.html)











2. Do I need a more aggressive product or pad?



Might want to add a true compound to your arsenal, the below all work very well.

Optimum Compound II
Meguiar's M105
Meguiar's Ultimate Compound






3. Also, I have used probably 1/3 of my 16oz swirl remover on just this section so I think I may be using too much product. Should a 16oz bottle cover an entire vehicle?


Trying to remove 100% of the deeper defects means re-buffing the panel multiple times, thus using more product. If you just aim for removing the majority of the shallow defects you can easily do one car with 16 ounces.

See answer to question #2





4. Even on speed 6 my pad is not rotating on any surface that is not completely flat. How do I do any curved area? If I pull the machine away so the pad barely touches then the pad will rotate but this lack of pressure doesn't seem to remove any scratches.

Thanks for the help!


You need to apply firm pressure.

I always recommend anyone new to the DA Polisher to read something I wrote years ago in which the title reads like something you would read AFTER you start running into problems but in fact you should read it before you start.

This should be included with every DA Polisher sold to help people off to the right start... credit due where credit is due...

DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/37769-da-polisher-trouble-shooting-guide.html)



Video: How to buff tight areas plus concave and convex curved panels by machine (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-car-garage-how-videos/48368-video-how-buff-tight-areas-plus-concave-convex-curved-panels-machine.html)


:)

[Paintxpert]

Hard to give advice without seeing it. User may not have the right technique in general. Orbital polisher or angle polisher? This is where a circular polisher and the ability to use one comes in handy for correction. Remember the vehicle is SIX years old. Depends how it was treated in its first life. Is the car garaged ect. Might have been under a tree or out in the conditions for ssix years unprotected ever. Just some things to ponder on. Seal it up good by hand with sealer then wax it with a clear carnuba. Use what works best for you. Do it while the car is cool. Only go one way while sealing the COOL panel.

[Paintxpert]

over polishing with wrong technique is a potential danger. Not having a good feel for what is on the paint surface and how to correct it is clearly guessing. I cant help because I dont know the products or the polisher you using. Sounds like your in good hands with this forum though. Best of luck! Paintxpert Shine Since 1969 No guesswork!

[TP143]

I have determined the remaining scratches are RIDS, as Mike eluded to. Although they do stick out like a sore thumb now, I have to remember I went from hundreds of thousands of scratches to maybe a dozen or two per panel, so the results are quite good. Thanks for the help everyone.

[Danster]

"4. Even on speed 6 my pad is not rotating on any surface that is not completely flat."


Guys, I wonder if he has a defective polisher? I'm not familiar with the GG 6" machine, bit I would think he should have no issue at speed 6!

[Y2KSVT]

"4. Even on speed 6 my pad is not rotating on any surface that is not completely flat."


Guys, I wonder if he has a defective polisher? I'm not familiar with the GG 6" machine, bit I would think he should have no issue at speed 6!

My experience comes from the PC7424XP, but with small, curved areas, you can get the pad to stop rotating if there's too much pressure on the outside of the pad. It can be difficult to get the center of the pad on some surfaces due to other body panels being in the way. This is where the smaller pads and backing plate come in.

[Danster]

oh ok, since I have and use the Flex 3401, I don't have have an issue no matter how hard I pressed down on the pad.