few qeustions about m105 and wax

[sumair]

hey guys im fairly new to the whole detailing thing. i pruchased a meguairs orbital and the m105/m205/nattyblue combo. i like natty blue wax. my truck looked amazing after! few questions. i tried using the m105 first and man it was tough to get off. i tried it on a small portion of the hood and it i overlapped and went slow as instructed but when i went to remove it, it was damn near impossible. i went over with the m205 which was much better and it improved the look of the truck for a bit but now alot of those deep scratches are back as they were only temporary covered.

my question for the guys using this product...how do i get it to work properly? haha any tips? i watch some videos on youtube and followed their instructions but it didnt work. if there is another product that would be better for swirl mark removal/deeper scratches please guide me in the right direction.

another thing was the natty blue wax was amazing! only down side of it was it didnt last too long. considering its my work truck i do drive in alot of sketchy conditions. i was trying to figure out which would be a better choice for me? something that will bead for awhile and protect my truck but also give me that nice deep shine like the natty's did.

i searched up and my god i couldn't understand half of the abbreviations haha.

thanks in advance

detailing noob

haha :buffing:

[Agfan]

What pad did you use with it? how much did you apply? And what speed were you using?

[tuscarora dave]

Sounds like you didn't work the M-105 for long enough. You should work it until it is pretty much removed from the paint (Very thin if any residue left and dusting) then the wipe off of what might be left is really easy. I struggled with the learning curve associated with 105. It can't be taught by typing or by reading, only by doing. Keep practicing and work it til it's gone from the paint and dusting. Check your results after working that area. If the defects have been removed completely, you'll never really know if you've removed too much clear to get those results. So...

Next section you work after cleaning the pad thoroughly with a pad cleaning brush or compressed air, add less product and work it into a new section and after working it until it is basically gone from the paint and dusting, wipe the area clean and inspect your results. Keep adjusting the amount that you're using until you see that it's not quite getting the results you're after... Once you achieve this, you'll know that it's going to take a little more product to get the work done. Once you get it dialed in, take out your smart phone and take a photo of the amount of product it took to get the right results so you don't forget.

It's kind of like working backwards, but it's the only way I was able to get through the learning curve. If the 105 is caking up on the paint you're using way too much product. Use these few tips as a guide to practicing and you'll eventually get it worked out. Good thing you're working it out on your work truck and not a customer's Porsche. Practice, practice, practice and you'll get it eventually.

I've heard people say there's better cutting better finishing compounds but I have yet to find one and I've tried lots of different compounds. Often emulated but yet to be duplicated.

The tough thing is that every car is different and once you get done figuring out exactly how to compound your work truck, the next job you do... you'll have to figure it out all over again, and that's with any polish or compound. Great detailers make this stuff look easy. Truth is that it gets easier with experience.

Concerning Natty's Blue, I love the look on dark cars with lots of bright metallic. PBNB (Poorboy's Natty's Blue) mutes metal flake, so on dark colors it makes certain colors of flake sparkle kind of like boat paint. Too bad it only lasts weeks at best. It was formulated to cater to car show entries for great looks on the day of the show and not for durability on daily drivers.

[Mike Phillips]

What size and type of pads are you using?

You want to mark your backing plate and make sure the pad is rotating under firm pressure on the highest speed setting, like this,

Video: Mark your backing plate to make it easy to see pad rotation (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-car-garage-how-videos/49489-video-mark-your-backing-plate-make-easy-see-pad-rotation.html)


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1423/MarkYourBackingPlate01.jpg

Here's a quick video that show how and why to mark your backing plate to see and monitor pad rotation while doing any correction or polishing steps.





How To Check Pad Rotation on a DA Polisher -...



It's also important to maintain pad rotation with PC style tools when using a one-step cleaner/wax or AIO type product on neglected paint.

It's not vital to maintain pad rotating when applying a finishing wax or finishing paint sealant to a finish that you've just buffed out.










my question for the guys using this product...how do i get it to work properly? haha any tips? i watch some videos on youtube and followed their instructions but it didnt work.

if there is another product that would be better for swirl mark removal/deeper scratches please guide me in the right direction.






Anytime someone is having problems, I have them read through my trouble shooting guide. The best thing to do is read through it BEFORE you even turn on the buffer and that way you can avoid the mistakes in the first place.

A couple people mentioned this Trouble Shooting Guide should be included with every DA Polisher sold, Megs, PC, Griot's, Shurhold, etc.

So for those lucky enough to find their way to our forum, here you go...


DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/37769-da-polisher-trouble-shooting-guide.html)




Tyler, age 15 removing swirls using a Porter Cable 7424XP Dual Action Polisher
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1436/medium/1965Plymouth035.jpg


When you're first starting out machine polishing and learning to use a DA Polisher it's common to have questions about your results and your results are directly tied to your technique.

Here's a list of the most common problems,


1. Trying to work too large of an area at one time.

2. Moving the polisher too fast over the surface.

3. Using too low of speed setting for removing swirls.

4. Using too little downward pressure on the head of the polisher.

5. Using too much downward pressure on the head of the polisher so the pad quits rotating.

6. Not holding the polisher in a way to keep the pad flat while working your compound or polish.

7. Using too much product or using too little product.

8. Not cleaning the pad often enough.

Here's a list of the solutions in matching order,

1. Trying to work too large of an area at one time.
Shrink the size of your work area down. You can't tackle to large of an area at one time. The average size work area should be around 20" by 20". Most generic recommendations say to work an area 2' by 2' but for the correction step, that's too large. You have to do some experimenting, (called a Test Spot), to find out how easy or how hard the defects are coming out of your car's paint system and then adjust your work area to the results of your Test Spot. The harder the paint the smaller the area you want to work.


2. Moving the polisher too fast over the surface.
For removing defects out of the paint you want to use what we call a Slow Arm Speed. It's easy and actually natural for most people new to machine polishing to move the polisher quickly over the paint but that's the wrong technique. One reason I think people move the polisher too quickly over the paint is because they hear the sound of the motor spinning fast and this has psychological effect which causes them to match their arm movement to the perceived fast speed of the polisher's motor.

Another reason people move the polisher too quickly over the paint is because they think like this,

"If I move the polisher quickly, I'll get done faster"

But it doesn't work that way. Anytime you're trying to remove swirls, scratches, water spots or oxidation using a DA Polisher you need to move the polisher s-l-o-w-l-y over the paint.



3. Using too low of speed setting for removing swirls.
When first starting out many people are scared of burning or swirling their paint, so they take the safe route of running the polisher at too low of a speed setting but this won't work. The action of the polisher is already g-e-n-t-l-e, you need the speed and specifically the pad oscillating and rotating over the paint as well as the combination of time, (slow arm speed), together with the abrasives, the pad aggressiveness, and the downward pressure to remove small particles of paint which is how your remove below surface defects like swirls or scratches.

Removing below surface defects is a leveling process where you need the abrasives to take little bites out of the paint and to get the abrasives to take these little bites with a tool that uses a Free Floating Spindle Bearing Assembly (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/23995-free-floating-spindle-assembly-story-behind-story.html) you need all of the above factors working for you including a high speed setting.



4. Using too little downward pressure on the head of the polisher.
For the same reason as stated in #3, people are scared, or perhaps a better word is apprehensive, to apply too much downward pressure to the polisher and the result of too little pressure is no paint is removed thus no swirls are removed.



5. Using too much downward pressure on the head of the polisher so the pad quits rotating.
If you push too hard you will slow down the rotating movement of the pad and the abrasives won't be effectively worked against the paint. You need to apply firm pressure to engage the abrasives against the paint but no so much that the pad is barely rotating. This is where it's a good idea to use a permanent black marker to make a mark on the back of your backing plate so your eyes can easily see if the pad is rotating or not and this will help you to adjust your downward pressure accordingly.

Correct technique means finding a balance of applying enough downward pressure to remove defects but not too much downward pressure as to stop the rotating movement of the pad.

This balance is affected by a lot of factors like the lubricity of the product you're using, some compounds and polishes provide more lubrication than others and this makes it easier to maintain pad rotation under pressure.

Another factor that can affect pad rotation are raised body lines, edges and curved surfaces as anytime you have uneven pressure on just a portion of the face of the pad it can slow or stop pad rotation. This is where experience comes into play and experience comes from time spent behind the polisher.



6. Not holding the polisher in a way to keep the pad flat while working your compound or polish.
Applying pressure in such a way as to put too much pressure to one edge of the pad will cause it to stop rotating and thus decrease abrading ability.



7. Using too much product or using too little product.
Too much product hyper-lubricates the surface and the result is that abrasives won't effectively bite into the paint but instead will tend to skim over the surface. Overusing product will also accelerate pad saturation as well increase the potential for slinging splatter onto adjacent panels.

Too little product will means too little lubrication and this can interfere with pad rotation.

Again there needs to be a balance between too much product and too little product and finding this balance comes from reading articles like this one, watching videos an most important, going out into the garage and putting in time behind the polisher and as you're buffing with specific product and pad combinations, pay attention to pad rotation.



8. Not cleaning the pad often enough.
Most people simply don't clean their pad often enough to maximize the effectiveness of their DA Polisher. Anytime you're abrading the paint you have two things building up on the face of your buffing pad,

Removed paint


Spent product

As these to things build up on the face of the pad they become gummy and this has a negative affect on pad rotating plus makes wiping the leftover residue on the paint more difficult. To maintain good pad rotation you want to clean your pad often and always wipe-off any leftover product residue off the paint after working a section. Never add fresh product to your pad and work a section that still has leftover product residue on it.


Pad Cleaning Articles

Why it's important to clean your pads often... (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tricks-tips-techniques/28755-why-s-important-clean-your-pads-often.html)

How to clean your foam pad on the fly (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/20135-how-clean-your-foam-pad-fly.html)

How to use the Grit Guard Universal Pad Washer (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-videos/24325-video-how-use-grit-guard-universal-pad-washer.html)




Tyler, age 15 machine applying a paste wax using a Porter Cable 7424XP Dual Action Polisher

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1436/medium/1965Plymouth067.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1436/medium/1965Plymouth071.jpg



:buffing:

[Mike Phillips]

Here's my current list of articles on using DA Polishers, there's actually more on this tool but under different "headings" on my article list, you'll have to click to it and scan down the list to find ones you're interested in... there's lots of articles on just about any topic you're heart is interested in.


Articles by Mike Phillips (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/23722-articles-mike-phillips.html)



Dual Action Polishers
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/794/PC7424XP2.jpghttp://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/794/MegsG110v2.jpg
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/794/GriotsPolisher.jpghttp://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/794/3inchGriots.jpg

Below you will find a wide variety of articles on the topic of using DA Polishers like the Porter Cable 7424XP and earlier versions, the Meguiar's G110v2 and earlier versions and the Griot's Garage DA Polishers to remove swirls, scratches, water spots and oxidation plus how to machine apply waxes and paint sealants.


I recommend everyone read this article first - before you need to troubleshoot :)

DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/37769-da-polisher-trouble-shooting-guide.html)

Video: Mark your backing plate to make it easy to see pad rotation (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-car-garage-how-videos/49489-video-mark-your-backing-plate-make-easy-see-pad-rotation.html)

NEW - Factors that can cause a pad to stop rotating on a DA Polisher (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tricks-tips-techniques/48955-factors-can-cause-pad-stop-rotating-da-polisher.html)

Video: How-To do a "Section Pass" when Machine Polishing with a DA Polisher (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-videos/24074-video-how-do-section-pass-when-machine-buffing.html)

Step-by-Step How-To use the Porter Cable 7424XP (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/19994-2008-lexus-250-pinnacle-detail.html)
(Very in-depth how-to guide that covers every topic related to using a DA Polisher like the PC, Meguiar's or Griot's tools)

The short how-to guide for using a DA Polisher
How to maximize the ability of the 1st Generation Porter Cable Dual Action Polishers (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/27166-how-maximize-ability-1st-gen-porter-cable-dual-action-polishers.html)

The long and in-depth guide for using a DA Polisher
The Definitive How-To Article for using DA Polishers (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tricks-tips-techniques/20021-definitive-how-article-removing-swirls-scratches-water-spots-using-porter-cable-7424xp-g110v2-griot-s-garage-polisher.html) - Includes Videos
Includes: Removing Swirls, Scratches and Water Spots Using a Porter Cable 7424XP, Meguiar's G110v2 or Griot's Garage Polisher

The Compression Washer (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/48913-compression-washer.html)

How to prime a foam pad when using a DA Polisher (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/35292-how-prime-foam-pad-when-using-da-polisher.html)

How much product do I use with my DA Polisher? (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tricks-tips-techniques/26962-how-much-product-do-i-use-my-da-polisher.html)

Wet Buffing Technique (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tricks-tips-techniques/36237-wet-buffing-technique.html)

DA Polisher Articles - Help for Newbies to Machine Polishing (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/questions-about-porter-cable-7424xp-7424-7336-griot-s-meguiar-s-dual-action-polishers/38399-da-polisher-articles-help-newbies-machine-polishing.html)

The Free Floating Spindle Assembly - The Story Behind The Story... (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/23995-free-rotating-spindle-assembly-story-behind-story.html)

Handle? Or No Handle? - Using DA Polishers Without the Handle (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/questions-about-porter-cable-7424xp-7424-7336-griot-s-meguiar-s-dual-action-polishers/30822-handle-no-handle-using-da-polishers-without-handle.html)

How to bolt on the Porter Cable Plastic Head Cap (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/rough-draft/39105-how-bolt-porter-cable-plastic-head-cap.html)

DA Polishers - Stick Handle - Hoop Handle - Or no handle at all? (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/porter-cable-7424xp-updates/20291-stick-handle-hoop-handle-no-handle-all.html)

How-to Machine Apply Wax using a DA Polisher (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/pinnacle-wax/28651-how-machine-apply-wax-using-da-polisher.html)

How to Apply Dodo Pastes Waxes by Machine (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/25737-how-apply-dodo-pastes-waxes-machine.html)

How To Apply Mothers California Gold Carnauba Paste Wax by Machine (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/25725-how-apply-mothers-california-gold-pure-carnauba-paste-machine.html)

How to use a microfiber bonnet to remove dried wax by machine (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/29369-how-use-microfiber-bonnet-remove-dried-wax-machine.html)

The white foam pad that comes with a Porter Cable Polisher (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wool-foam-buffing-pads/50479-white-foam-pad-comes-porter-cable-polisher.html)

Tip: Rubber Nut to protect threads and safeguard compression washer (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tricks-tips-techniques/48922-tip-use-rubber-nut-protect-threads-prevent-loss-compression-washer.html)

Griot's Random Orbital Polisher (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/questions-about-porter-cable-7424xp-7424-7336-griot-s-meguiar-s-dual-action-polishers/20437-griot-s-random-orbital-polisher.html)

Meguiar's G110v2 - 2nd Generation G110 Dual Action Polisher (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/questions-about-porter-cable-7424xp-7424-7336-griot-s-meguiar-s-dual-action-polishers/22103-meguiar-s-g110v2-2nd-generation-g110-dual-action-polisher.html)

Griot's Garage 3" Mini Polisher - Extreme Demo - Warning! (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/product-reviews/22065-griot-s-garage-3-mini-polisher-extreme-demo-warning.html)

3" Mini Polisher- 2nd Generation Griot's Garage Mini Polisher (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/product-reviews/21846-3-mini-polisher-gen-ii-griot-s-garage-mini-polisher.html)

Can an air-powered DA Sander be used to polish paint? (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/)

Show Car Garage Video: How To Remove Swirls, Scratches and Water Spots using a PC 7424XP, Meguiar's G110v2 or Griot's Garage 6" Random Orbital Polisher (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-videos/)

[Mike Phillips]

Above all, ALWAYS do a TEST SPOT before trying to buff out an entire car...



New to Machine Polishing?

How To Do a Test Spot (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/50162-how-do-test-spot.html)
(and why it's so important)



You can also watch a number of live broadcasts, in the last few I show step by step how to use DA Polishers and the Flex 3401


List 'O Live Broadcast Videos at Autogeek in one thread! (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/pictures-autogeek-s-car-week/52908-list-o-live-broadcast-videos-autogeek-one-thread.html)



:xyxthumbs:

[truckbutt]

Kevin Brown Method - Detailing World (http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=136884)
I've modified this a bit. Instead of priming the pad with M105, I've had good results priming the pad with Meguiars QD in the red sprayer. As Dave stated, you only want to use as much 105 as it takes to do a section so that when you're done there is almost no 105 to remove.

[Mike Phillips]

you only want to use as much 105 as it takes to do a section so that when you're done there is almost no 105 to remove.

I would add you want to use enough to keep the surface lubricated as you work it.

If you don't use enough product this can hinder pad rotation as there's not enough lubrication on the surface being worked. The smaller the section the less product you need but the larger the section the more product you should use because the product will tend to be in the act of drying in one section of the paint as you're working the opposite side.

Keeping the working product liquid on the surface is key to good pad rotation for any compound.

The bigger picture is to use the ample amount, not too little, not too much.


And of course... clean your pad often...


Why it's important to clean your pads often... (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tricks-tips-techniques/28755-why-s-important-clean-your-pads-often.html)


ANYTIME you're abrading the surface whether you're using an aggressive cutting compound of an ultra fine polish, you have two things building up on the face of your buffing pad...

Spent product
Removed paint
You need to remove both of these substances from the face of the pad and the panel you're working on before you apply fresh product. If you don't,

Adding fresh product to spent product and removed paint adulterates the fresh product, it also dilutes it.
Buffing with a dirty pad will be more difficult.
The product will cake-up on the face of the pad.
The product will become gummy on the paint and hard to wipe off.
How to clean your pads and other options to make buffing clean again...

You can scrub the face of the pad with a nylon brush like a pad conditioning brush or even a nylon toothbrush
If using a Dual Action Polisher or a Rotary Buffer you can clean your pad on the fly (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/20135-how-clean-your-foam-pad-fly-when-using-porter-cable-style-da-polisher.html) with a terry cloth towel
You can wash your pads in a bucket of water
You can wash your pads in a sink under running water
You can wash your pads in a pad washer
You can switch to a clean, dry pad
You can switch to a brand new pad
I just buffed out half the hood on an oxidized 1959 Cadillac and used the technique along with a nylon brush and it works adequately enough to allow me to work clean and get back to work quickly.


That's the whole idea behind cleaning your pad on the fly... you can remove a majority of the spent product and removed paint and then get back to running the buffer... buffing out an entire car already takes a l-o-n-g time... stopping to do some kind of pad cleaning procedure that isn't quick and easy keeps you from buffing on the paint.


Fast methods include,

Pad Washers
Cleaning your pad on the fly with a terry cloth towel
Using a nylon pad conditioning brush
Using a Spur if you're using a wool pad on a rotary buffer


Slow methods, (they might work well but they take you away from buffing on the car)

You can wash your pads in a bucket of water
You can wash your pads in a sink under running water


:)