Paint Cleaners, P21S In Particular

[swanicyouth]

Found some very useful information elsewhere about paint cleansers. It breaks them down into 3 classes:

1. Abrasive: example: Dodo Prime Lime

2. Chemical (neutralized acids): example: Iron X

3. Chemical (solvent): example: P21S Paintwork Cleanser.

... Its the P21S I'm interested in. The post states this does have some very very fine abrasives in it in the form of kaolin clay. So, in using this, I guess you are I'm a sense, using the clay and the solvent to clean your paint. Clay, however, stays behind and fills. They also say the Swissvax cleaner is great but leaves behind a lot of "filling oils"... The question is, aren't the clay and oil left behind do noshing the life of the LSP? Should someone use a product like Eraser or IPA after using a one the the chemical solvent paint work cleansers... As these aren't really leaving your paint "clean", they are leaving it filled or glazed. Also, I guess you can't use a sealant with these types of products without removing the remnants of the cleanser itself. Kind of like, I have to clean off the the paintwork cleanser to apply my sealant.

... One more question; about the PBMA cleansers:
Anyone know what class the Blackfire GEP, Pinnacle Paint Cleanser, or the Wolfgang Paint Cleanser fall into???
Do they clean chemically or with very fine abrasives? If the former (or the later) do they leave any "fillers" or glazing oils behind? I'm guessing "no" for the Blackfire product because that's meant to be used with Wet Diamond and that is sealant. From what I recall, sealants really should only go on bare paint, not paint with glazed or fillers left behind or the lifespan will be dramatically shortened.
Comments and input please!
2.

[rider9195]

I know that BF GEP and WG PPE both have very very fine abrasives and light fillers. My moms car has a tinted clear and using a green finishing pad on speed 4(PC XP) with the WG it showed some red on the pad.

I know manufactures specially formulate products to be topped over one another. Especially the new Blackfire line with all the polymers.

[WRAPT C5Z06]

I've always thought the same thing. The chemical cleaners are leaving behind oils/fillers, therefore, possibly deterring the bonding of LSP's. They claim not to. If the "paint cleaners" dont have protection mixed in, I'd strip the oils/fillers before applying the LSP.

[swanicyouth]

I know that BF GEP and WG PPE both have very very fine abrasives and light fillers. My moms car has a tinted clear and using a green finishing pad on speed 4(PC XP) with the WG it showed some red on the pad.

I know manufactures specially formulate products to be topped over one another. Especially the new Blackfire line with all the polymers.

Since pad and polish determine aggressiveness of polishing, maybe the tinted clear comes off a little just from the "bite" of the pad, no matter how minor it may be. I'm saying this because I know its possible to remove some light defects with a pad and a "pure"/chemical polish like PoorBoys Pro Polish, so just seeing the clear coat on the pad itself may not prove the Blackfire and Wolfgang paint cleaners have abrasives in them in and of itself.

[bmwgalore]

P21s Cleanser is top quality, but I will always do an IPA wipe down anyway to make sure the paint is ready for LSP/Coating, so I can't comment on left over oils or chemicals.. And the price is good.

PBMA is mostly re-bottled stuff with a premium price, won't even go there.

[rider9195]

Since pad and polish determine aggressiveness of polishing, maybe the tinted clear comes off a little just from the "bite" of the pad, no matter how minor it may be. I'm saying this because I know its possible to remove some light defects with a pad and a "pure"/chemical polish like PoorBoys Pro Polish, so just seeing the clear coat on the pad itself may not prove the Blackfire and Wolfgang paint cleaners have abrasives in them in and of itself.

That's true. I'll have to do some testing possibly.

[swanicyouth]

P21s Cleanser is top quality, but I will always do an IPA wipe down anyway to make sure the paint is ready for LSP/Coating, so I can't comment on left over oils or chemicals.. And the price is good.

Do you use it by hand machine? If by machine, do you spread it like a wax, then remove -or - work it like a fine polish? If the later, how many "passes" with the DA?




PBMA is mostly re-bottled stuff with a premium price, won't even go there.

Hmmm... Interesting you say that. Nobody really seems to bring that up much, but I was under the impression is was "made" there. Maybe just poured from a big bottle into a little one. To be quite honest with you, I have some PBMA products, and I feel they are all pretty good. It seems some of the LSPs are well liked, and a have some Fuzion on the way. I have picked my PBMA products carefully though, I only have the following:

Cobra towels: I like them a lot. However, similar towels are available elsewhere.

Wolfgang Polishing Twins: I have had excellent experiences with these polishes. For normal defects that aren't super bad, I think they are user friendly, effective and reasonably priced. These I would pick over other similar polishes. First class IMHO.

Blackfire Sealant: I just recently got this, and only tested it briefly. However, I think it's fair to say there is enough good press about this and the other PBMA LSPs to say they are great. As for the price, they pretty much have a wax in every price range. I never have seen a post saying I just got MaxWax (or Fuzion) and it sucks.

Wolfgang Deep Gloss Dressing: this I got as a sample and I found not good. It was so bad I'm pretty much convinced it was a bad batch or came out of a larger container that separated. It was almost like the tire rubber repelled this stuff and was forcing it into the applicator.

Pinnacle Liquid Soveran: this was another sample. I don't use liquid waxes so I don't have much to compare it to. But I found it underwhelming , butane that's just what liquid waxes are like.

Pinnacle Microfiber Applicator 6 pack: these came and were pink! They had strings hanging off them on all the corners where they were sewn up. Once I cut the strings off they were fine. Would purchase again.

So that's been my experience.

[bmwgalore]

Hmmm... Interesting you say that. Nobody really seems to bring that up much, but I was under the impression is was "made" there. Maybe just poured from a big bottle into a little one. To be quite honest with you, I have some PBMA products, and I feel they are all pretty good.

Oh yeah, I've never said they where bad or low quality. All I'm saying is that they charge a premium price for a little tweak over a formula sold by the original chemistry company (Warner and Menzerna comes to mind)... There's an epic tread over at Autopia (the original forum, not the clone) about this stuff...

Not saying it's a bad product, but I'd rather give my money to companies like CQuartz, Optimum, Meguiars and Menzerna, since they develop their own products.


Just my opinion, if the mods disagree, get over it.

[Rsurfer]

:applause::urtheman:
Oh yeah, I've never said they where bad or low quality. All I'm saying is that they charge a premium price for a little tweak over a formula sold by the original chemistry company (Warner and Menzerna comes to mind)... There's an epic tread over at Autopia (the original forum, not the clone) about this stuff...

Not saying it's a bad product, but I'd rather give my money to companies like CQuartz, Optimum, Meguiars and Menzerna, since they develop their own products.


Just my opinion, if the mods disagree, get over it.