Water etching on 1958 Mercury (single stage paint)

[pointillistic_practitioner]

I recently detailed a family friend's 1958 Mercury Montclair (cool car!). In any case, I washed, clayed, corrected with Poorboy's ssr2 (which finished out pretty nicely...some swirls but he was mostly concerned about protecting the finish with wax but I wanted to do more b/c he's been a good friend) Anyway, I was very happy with everything except the hood area. It was filled with water etching which I tried to remove first with vinegar, then by compounding. Neither worked. I had to hand the car over with the etching b/c I was only going to wax originally and used up too much time compounding... I'm doing more of his cars and can always finish the car tomorrow or soon so I wanted to know what products I should get or what methods I can use to remove water etching (I'm pretty sure they're type 2 spots not type 1). What do you geeks think? Thanks xD

[pointillistic_practitioner]

btw I'll try to get pics up soon but I've tried & I the uploading is failing at the moment...

[pointillistic_practitioner]

My cpu wont let me upload...any thoughts though?? Thanks!

[Mike Phillips]

Removing Type II Water spots which are "crater etching" simply means removing enough paint surrounding the crater etchings until the very uppers surface of the paint is equal to the lowest depths of the etchings.

In other words, remove more paint...

The problem however is you are limited in how much paint you can remove before you run into the primer on a single stage finish and the last thing you want to do is explain to the owner that you've compounded too far...


That's why Type II Water Spots are such a curse, there is no easy fix.

Of all the PM's and e-mails I get randomly from non-forum people, the majority are questions asking me how to remove Type II Water Spots. Usually by people no where near as educated about the paint polishing process as people that hang out and read on forums like AGO.


Discuss this problem with the car owner and ask him how important it is to remove all traces of the crater etchings. Let him be the person that decides, not you and if he decides he want to you try to get them 100% out of the paint then have him sign a release of liability specifically stating what the problem is and the potential for repainting the car should a mistake be made.


If you need help explaining to him the problem, pull this thread up on a good monitor and have him look at the below pictures. I took these myself from a Corvette that belong to Alex Fong, a member of CorvetteForum when he brought his car to Meguiar's when I taught the Saturday detailing classes.

3 - Types of Water Spots - Type I, Type II and Type III (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/33499-3-types-water-spots-type-i-type-ii-type-iii.html)

Type II Water Spots
Type II Water Spots are actual etchings or craters in the paint because something corrosive in a water source has landed on the paint and was not removed before a portion of the paint was eaten or dissolved by the corrosive substance.

I took this photo myself when I helped Alex Fong from Corvette Forum remove a zillion Type II Water Spots out of the clear coat finish on his Corvette.

Photo Courtesy of MeguiarsOnline.com
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/722/WaterEtcingSpotOriginalC1Raw.jpg

Here's a close-up of the same photo, if you look closely you can see the edges are angled downward as this is an actual etching "into" the clear paint.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/722/2WaterEtcingSpotOriginalC1RawCloseUpCropped.jpg


Sorry to be the bearer of bad news...

:)

[Mike Phillips]

This article here explains why Vinegar, as much as people on forums like to blindly recommend it doesn't always work.


Tips for removing Type I Water Spots (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/36306-tips-removing-type-i-water-spots.html)




:xyxthumbs:

[pointillistic_practitioner]

Removing Type II Water spots which are "crater etching" simply means removing enough paint surrounding the crater etchings until the very uppers surface of the paint is equal to the lowest depths of the etchings.

In other words, remove more paint...

The problem however is you are limited in how much paint you can remove before you run into the primer on a single stage finish and the last thing you want to do is explain to the owner that you've compounded too far...


That's why Type II Water Spots are such a curse, there is no easy fix.

Of all the PM's and e-mails I get randomly from non-forum people, the majority are questions asking me how to remove Type II Water Spots. Usually by people no where near as educated about the paint polishing process as people that hang out and read on forums like AGO.


Discuss this problem with the car owner and ask him how important it is to remove all traces of the crater etchings. Let him be the person that decides, not you and if he decides he want to you try to get them 100% out of the paint then have him sign a release of liability specifically stating what the problem is and the potential for repainting the car should a mistake be made.


If you need help explaining to him the problem, pull this thread up on a good monitor and have him look at the below pictures. I took these myself from a Corvette that belong to Alex Fong, a member of CorvetteForum when he brought his car to Meguiar's when I taught the Saturday detailing classes.

3 - Types of Water Spots - Type I, Type II and Type III (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/33499-3-types-water-spots-type-i-type-ii-type-iii.html)

Type II Water Spots
Type II Water Spots are actual etchings or craters in the paint because something corrosive in a water source has landed on the paint and was not removed before a portion of the paint was eaten or dissolved by the corrosive substance.

I took this photo myself when I helped Alex Fong from Corvette Forum remove a zillion Type II Water Spots out of the clear coat finish on his Corvette.

Photo Courtesy of MeguiarsOnline.com
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/722/WaterEtcingSpotOriginalC1Raw.jpg

Here's a close-up of the same photo, if you look closely you can see the edges are angled downward as this is an actual etching "into" the clear paint.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/722/2WaterEtcingSpotOriginalC1RawCloseUpCropped.jpg


Sorry to be the bearer of bad news...

:)

Thank you! At least I now know there's nothing else I could really do without compounding more. I will show him this. Maybe we'll even have another AG member on our hands soon? :xyxthumbs:
I decided to use vinegar because I actually read the article you wrote up but didnt have any water spot remover on hand & wanted to see if in fact the spots were type I or II. I didn't really know what to do if they were type II b/c that article was really primarily focused on type I. I figured they were type II once the vinegar didn't work. I also found that 1) the vinegar not only took the wax off but took it off in such a way that it was almost sticky and hard to buff off and 2) it did nothing for the spots.

At the end of the day, I decided it wasn't worth it to try to ruin an expensive classic by trying to remove the spots. The owner thought the car looked great overall and was able to overlook the water spots. He decided he was going to show off the shine by taking it out the the Hamptons for Independence Day haha xD He even sent me his red 1964 ford galaxie to do.

Don't worry about being the bearer of bad news, I'm just glad you replied. You always have the answers, even if they're not optimal :P Sorry for my rambling :urtheman:and thanks again!